Measuring the Immeasurables=Science & Spirituality

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

Yesterday after work I was returning a book the the local library, I had some time on my hands so I decided to browse and came across this this book http://www.amazon.com/Measuring-Immeasurable-Scientific-Case-Spirituality/dp/1591796547

I just scanned through the contents, it looks like a very interesting read [ Hopefully it's not too academic -or my simple mind won't be able to cope]...

Just thought some members might also be interested, especially the spiritual & or scientific minded members...

It was the book's title that attracted my attention..."Measuring The Immeasurables !" 
Very impressive   

Metta Zenda    

[Lisbeth]

It appears to be mostly brain physiology.

[Anatta]

Kia Ora Lisbeth,

From what I've read so far, there appears to be a lot more to the book than just brain physiology...

But I guess it all depends on where the person is coming from as to what they get out of such a book...

On a personal level I have a vested interest in both sciences, that is, science of the mind [Spirituality involving Meditation] and the more conventional sciences...I'm "deeply" involved with science of the mind, and welcome any scientific findings from another source...

I'm a slow reader so am yet to finish the book....

Metta Zenda

[mowdan6]

Hey Zenda.  When I read the topic you posted...I was thinking spiritual intervention vs scientific proof.  Not sure what this book speaks too.  What it made me think of, was a situation that happened a few months ago.  I have 3 animal companions,  all of them getting up there in years.  My 15 year old dog, for some reason, started hemmorraging badly.  I was cleaning up blood all over the place.  Took her to the vet, they could find nothing wrong and told me there was nothing they could do.  I brought her back home and thought....there is something I can do.  I got down on my knees and prayed.  Basically praying...."yes i know someday,  I will have to say good bye to my companion, but, please God, not today."  And, within  a few minutes....she was fine.  And, to this day, still going strong.  Even though she has been diagnosed with a collapsed trachea...bladder stones....fatty cysts, she is happy and going strong. 
That's what i think of when I see the topic of 'measuring the immeasurable.'  God working, and science not accepting....because they can't explain it.   

[Anatta]

Hey Zenda.  When I read the topic you posted...
.  Not sure what this book speaks too.  What it made me think of, was a situation that happened a few months ago.  I have 3 animal companions,  all of them getting up there in years.  My 15 year old dog, for some reason, started hemmorraging badly.  I was cleaning up blood all over the place.  Took her to the vet, they could find nothing wrong and told me there was nothing they could do.  I brought her back home and thought....there is something I can do.  I got down on my knees and prayed.  Basically praying...."yes i know someday,  I will have to say good bye to my companion, but, please God, not today."  And, within  a few minutes....she was fine.  And, to this day, still going strong.  Even though she has been diagnosed with a collapsed trachea...bladder stones....fatty cysts, she is happy and going strong. 
That's what i think of when I see the topic of 'measuring the immeasurable.'  God working, and science not accepting....because they can't explain it.   

Kia Ora Mowdan,

I'm happy to hear your animal companion has recovered...

From a Buddhist perspective we wouldn't view this as an intervention from a divine being, we would see it more so as the dog's "karma", and her sickness was just a way of working through the unwholesome karmic energies she had accumulated...

However if it brings you personal comfort to put the recovery of your companion down to a god's intervention, I fully respect your belief, even though I might find it hard to imagine such a being healing a dog yet neglecting to intervene in the crises in Africa where thousand upon thousand of men women and children[and animals] are dying each day from starvation...

I should also point out just because Buddhists believe it's the "individual's karma" this does not stop a deep felt compassion and empathy for those who are suffering and a strong desire to help ease their suffering in some way...

BTW  I still haven't finished the book yet, but it does more so seem to support the benefits that arise both the physical and mental from many spiritual practices...The scientist have been measuring/studying the activity of the brain when people are practicing their spirituality...   

Metta Zenda    

[Ryno]

However if it brings you personal comfort to put the recovery of your companion down to a god's intervention, I fully respect your belief, even though I might find it hard to imagine such a being healing a dog yet neglecting to intervene in the crises in Africa where thousand upon thousand of men women and children[and animals] are dying each day from starvation... 

Metta Zenda

I wouldn't think any God would put an instant end to world suffering. It's a problem we have to fix, with assistance now and then. It's the little things most people never see, like a sick dog suddenly feeling a bit better (still ill, but not dying), or a starving person in an impoverished nation finding another kind person willing to share what little they have. Sure, the nation as a whole is in a dire situation and each individual is still suffering, but sometimes it's those little things that push us an inch closer in the right direction, and stop us from falling to our knees and giving up. I think that's what a true miracle is. Otherwise people would get lazy and just get their god to fix their problems.

"When you do something right, no one notices you've done anything at all." A quote I heard on Futurama... probably not the source of the quote but that's where I herd it...

Sorry, I'm not trying to change the subject or say the Buddhist perspective is wrong - I like that way of thinking too. I'm just sharing a Christian point of view in a different light ... I'm not even Christian. ^.^;

But that book is definitely one I'll be picking up. I'm sorry for posting in an older thread but I suddenly felt like sharing that point of view - again, not to change your mind or anything.

[Da Monkey]

Ryan: Is that even Christianity?

What if you believe in God or just the idea of God, but not the Bible and Jesus? You just mentioned God, in general, how is that a Christian point of view when it has nothing to do with Jesus Christ? Just asking because you say you're not Christian but giving a Christian point of view when it is so vague and just about God. Meaning that Christians aren't the only one who can appreciate what you are saying.

Anyway, if it is about the whole spirituality/religion VS science, can't science be the answer to how and spirituality/religion be the answer to why?

[Ryno]

Ryan: Is that even Christianity?

No, you're right .... it's not really Christian. My bad. I guess it's just the difference between divine intervention and karma. Sorry. I wasn't shedding a different light on Christianity, but on divine intervention.

Again, I'm not trying to discredit Buddhist thought, I'm just giving some credit to divine intervention.

I guess I mentioned Christianity simply because it's been on my mind lately...

[Anatta]

Kia Ora both,

I guess when it comes to divine intervention or karmic energy, it's whatever one feels comfortable with...And Karma is something my mind can work with...

Metta Zenda