Open mindedness –Where’s ones moral compass needle at?

[Anatta]

Kia Ora Axelle,

There's no such thing as "sin" [in Buddhism]...

Metta Zenda

[AbraCadabra]

Honey, it's why I called it "missing the mark" , yes?
Or "not doing your best" in a given situation, or being "unskillful" etc.

"Sin" is, or had become, a dogmatic thing over the centuries.
It's now not adhering to dogma, ergo being "immoral" or "sinful". Period.

The Greek word for sin, αμαρτία when translating the Greek Bible texts, was "missing the mark". YMMV.
Not saying I'm a master of hermeneutics but did complete a ministries study... a while ago. As a result am not "religious" about things i.e. rather try and be "skillful" :-)

Axelle

[VeryGnawty]

Are you open minded ?

I like my mind closed, locked, padlocked, and with a chain on it.

In general, I don't respect people's beliefs.  I respect the fact that people have beliefs, but I don't respect the beliefs themselves.  This is particularly true if those beliefs are self-contradictory, not well-reasoned, and held by people who consistently argue that everyone else must have the same beliefs that they do.

The way I see it, I don't need to be constantly entertaining a bunch of useless theories which are most likely all wrong.  I am much better off not knowing about it, thank you very much.  I have much better things to do with my time than listen to people drawl on about gods, blessings, magic, afterlife, underworlds, conspiracies, demons, and a whole host of other things which probably don't exist.

If you can bend spoons with your mind, show me.  If you are the subject of an all-powerful being who can create an entire universe just by thinking about it, show me.  If you have magic pixie dust that you use to make love and lust concoctions, show me.

The extent to which my mind is open ends at the point where people start talking about all kinds of fantasy which has absolutely no effect in the actual world.  If someone can't provide physical evidence for their beliefs, then IMHO their beliefs are about as valid as Star Wars.  The only significant difference is that Star Wars is more believable.

[cynthialee]

Skilful, unskilful. The sytem is still full of value judgements.

[Stephe]

Kia Ora,

I guess this is what I'm on about when "I" talk of open mindedness...

That is  [if they are not harming others] "LIVE AND LET LIVE !"

I -try- to go one step further which is the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". This means rather than just ignoring what others are doing, you actively try to do something nice for others. If you had added the "if they are not harming others" I would have picked that choice out of these options

[Stephe]

I like my mind closed, locked, padlocked, and with a chain on it.

In general, I don't respect people's beliefs.  I respect the fact that people have beliefs, but I don't respect the beliefs themselves.  This is particularly true if those beliefs are self-contradictory, not well-reasoned, and held by people who consistently argue that everyone else must have the same beliefs that they do.

The way I see it, I don't need to be constantly entertaining a bunch of useless theories which are most likely all wrong.  I am much better off not knowing about it, thank you very much.  I have much better things to do with my time than listen to people drawl on about gods, blessings, magic, afterlife, underworlds, conspiracies, demons, and a whole host of other things which probably don't exist.

If you can bend spoons with your mind, show me.  If you are the subject of an all-powerful being who can create an entire universe just by thinking about it, show me.  If you have magic pixie dust that you use to make love and lust concoctions, show me.

The extent to which my mind is open ends at the point where people start talking about all kinds of fantasy which has absolutely no effect in the actual world.  If someone can't provide physical evidence for their beliefs, then IMHO their beliefs are about as valid as Star Wars.  The only significant difference is that Star Wars is more believable.

What is real to me is Love exists. You can't prove it scientifically or physically but I know it exists. What I worship is that Love makes the world a better place to live in and all my God asks is we love each other.  He makes no demands on me or my life other than this. IMHO THAT is a hard enough thing that it absorbs all the time I have free to spend on stuff like this  

Hate to be argumentative but you are the same as the people you seem to abhor. You don't like people who explain you must hold the same beliefs as they do, but then explain how everyone who doesn't believe as you do are simply wrong.. I respect you believe there is nothing outside of what can be physically proved but you don't appear to reciprocate those feelings towards others.

[AbraCadabra]

Cynthialee,
* The system is still full of value judgements. *

Honey, guess what? Life is one never ending string of value judgments, like it or not.
If it wasn't you wouldn't live.

We HAVE to make value judgements every step of our way, and that's what we are taught from the day we are born. Bottle too hot? We scream! Someone nice to you? We smile!

Want to cross the street into a bus? Not really. And on and on.

So you need a compass, else how you know you go South rather then North?

Axelle

[cynthialee]

I was only pointing out the contradiction in the philosophy.

[Anatta]

Kia Ora[to no one in particular],

"Life is a paradox !" [Full of contradictions]

Just to reiterate: The words "skilful" and "unskilful" (kusala and akusala) are how Buddhists talk about the ethical status of ones actions. According to Buddhism actions should not be deemed right or wrong because there is not one single correct path through the obstacles in life; therefore, one should strive to be skilful, [kusala], and stray away from becoming unskilful...And this is where "mindfulness" comes into play...

A little "food for thought" parable on burden:

Two Buddhist Monks were on a journey, one was a senior monk, the other a novice. During their journey they approached a raging river and on the river bank stood a young woman who was clearly concerned about how she would get to the other side of the river without drowning. She asked if the monks could help her...

The novice monk shook his head and walked straight past her without giving it a thought and he crossed the river. The senior monk smiled said get on my shoulders and I'll carry you across, so she climbed onto his shoulders and he carried her across the river . Once safely across he placed her down, and the two monks continued on with the journey.

After many hours they were approaching the journey's end, the senior monk could see some concern on the novice monk's mind, he asked what was wrong. The novice monk replied, "how could you carry her like that? You know we can't touch women, it's against our way of life". The senior monk answered, "I left the woman at the rivers edge a long way back, why are you still carrying her?"

The moral of the story: The senior monk may have broken monastic rules but out of compassion had acted skilfully. Once the purpose was fulfilled he put her down and continued on. He never gave it a second thought. However the novice monk was carrying the burden of what the senior monk had done as emotional baggage.

We have little use for the past except for the purpose of learning from our experiences, wholesome and unwholesome... Just like in this story, we need to let go of any burden the past may place on us.


These burdens can also be in the form of a personal grudge/vendetta against someone...    

"Sabbe Dhamma Nalam Abhinivesaya !"

Happy Mindfulness

Metta Zenda

[kate durcal]

Kia Ora Axelle,

There's no such thing as "sin" [in Buddhism]...

Metta Zenda

That is to bad because proselytising as hard as a southern-baptist preacher should be a sin in Buddhism 

Kate D

[Anatta]

That is to bad because proselytising as hard as a southern-baptist preacher should be a sin in Buddhism 

Kate D

Kia Ora Kate,

Opening a person's mind to life's possibilities is neither preaching or trying to solicit and as I've mentioned before nor is it a sin[according to Buddhists  ]...It's all about having compassion for the suffering of others Kate...No matter what their personal beliefs are...

My personal thoughts can't enter another person's mind without their permission...

Buddhism is just a name given to a particular belief system, and if one's personal "faith/beliefs" are strong, what have they to fear ? I can assure you, you won't become a Buddhist by reading about Buddhist psychology & philosophy [unless that is....it's your "karma"    ]...

Or perhaps I'm really casting a nasty "magical'" conversion spell... 

BTW Did you find the parable interesting Kate ?

Metta Zenda

[VeryGnawty]

What is real to me is Love exists. You can't prove it scientifically or physically but I know it exists. What I worship is that Love makes the world a better place to live in and all my God asks is we love each other.

If all your God asks is for us to love each other, then I have no quarrel with your God.  In fact, I would rather have other people believe in your God regardless of his status of existence, as the world would be a much better place.

Hate to be argumentative but you are the same as the people you seem to abhor. You don't like people who explain you must hold the same beliefs as they do, but then explain how everyone who doesn't believe as you do are simply wrong.

Your theory would be nice, if it were actually true.  However, it is not.  First of all, I don't abhor people simply for believing in falsehoods or disbelieving in truths.  I simply said that I don't respect those beliefs.  This is a very different thing.

Secondly, I never actually said that anybody was wrong.  I said that they were probably wrong.  Two completely different things.  If there are a thousand religions all claiming that ONLY their god is the true god, then at least 999 of those religions must be wrong.  The same goes for any other mutually exclusive theories, whether they are based in science or not.  Given the number of crazy things people believe, and the conditions which must be present in the universe in order for any given theory to be true, then the logical conclusion is that most of what people believe must be wrong.  While any particular theory COULD be correct, I don't see why I should be spending my time pondering such a theory if it seemingly has no effect on the actual universe and the person proposing the theory can't provide any evidence that it does.  Like I said, I have better things to do with my time.  Specifically:  I could be doing research to try to find out what actually is true so that I won't be scammed by the next snake oil salesman, diet pill, or (dare I say) religion.

I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't believe as I do is wrong.  That would be a very foolish statement.  What I am saying is that, given the number of mutually exclusive ideas that people believe, most of those beliefs must necessarily be wrong.  If there are thousands (maybe more) of people who believe that the Earth is only six-thousand years old, and billions of people who believe that the Earth is billions of years old, then only one of these theories can be true (non-linear time and parallel universes notwithstanding).  We can already establish the wrongness of at least several thousand people, and this is only on one single idea on one single topic.  Either the Young Earth theory is incorrect, the Old Earth theory is incorrect, or they are both incorrect because space and time are a lot more bizarre than we think they are.  Regardless of what the actual truth is, there are a lot of people who are simply WRONG.

I respect you believe there is nothing outside of what can be physically proved but you don't appear to reciprocate those feelings towards others.

What feelings?  I believe in my theories based on the current evidence.  Feelings have nothing to do with it.  Please explain exactly what feelings I am supposed to have for others, and how it relates to our beliefs.

[Stephe]

If all your God asks is for us to love each other, then I have no quarrel with your God.  In fact, I would rather have other people believe in your God regardless of his status of existence, as the world would be a much better place.

Your theory would be nice, if it were actually true.  However, it is not.  First of all, I don't abhor people simply for believing in falsehoods or disbelieving in truths.  I simply said that I don't respect those beliefs.  This is a very different thing.

If you read (which I assume you have and not just listened to what people told you these books say) most religious books, at the core have this same message. Look at what almost every religion has in common, not at the differences. You will see this "Love each other as yourself" in almost everyone. It's why God sent Jesus/Christ here (which you likely don't believe either), God saw we just were NOT getting the message. Jesus's MAIN message over and over was "Look, forget all those old rules, just LOVE EACH OTHER". It's really just that simple. Now people with their hatred can twist any of these to suit their own evil purposes, which we all have seen happen. That isn't God's love working, that is people being selfish. Yes, unfortunately most churches/religions seem to try to apply all sorts of silly rules rather that just following this simple precept.

You have to remember ALL these books are -mans interpretation- of what God is and wants of us. That is why you see so many different "versions". Too many people then take these books literally or feel one has to believe them literally to get Gods message out of them. I honestly feel most religions are worshiping the same God, just in their own way of trying to understand it. It's humans trying to comprehend something beyond what they can understand.

It's likely why some people such as yourself chose to believe God just doesn't exist instead. You can't understand it, no humans can explain it scientifically so it's simple to just assume "therefore it doesn't exist". Don't forget 200 years ago we didn't understand bacteria and the cause of infection. Science explained those things in ways we consider nonsense today. Just because science can't show evidence for something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Again has anyone ever scientifically proved Love exists? There is a LOT that humans do not understand.

Next section...

And maybe I see this differently but "not respecting those beliefs" seems to be a pretty negative statement towards other people. I respect everyone's beliefs, even people who believe there is no God or that the world was made is exactly 7 days and there is no evolution. Sharing a belief and respecting someone else's beliefs are different things.

Lets move this into the context of this forum. I am going to assume you -believe- your birth sex doesn't match your gender. You have no scientific proof this is true. Other people obviously aren't going to share this belief in their own life but I have found most people -respect- my belief this is the case for me. Now imagine if everyone was like you and didn't respect this belief we have? Do you like people who refuse to accept you have gender identity issues and tell us you have no proof of this, so you are wrong? Of course not. But this is how you treat other people about their religious beliefs.. How is your lack of respect for other peoples beliefs be any different than these people who refuse to accept someone being TG?

[Julie Marie]

Verse 19 of the Tao Te Ching includes:

Throw away morality and justice,
and people will do the right thing.

Does one really need a moral compass?

[Amazon D]

Its me i judge not others and when i do judge others i quickly ask to be forgiven by above

[Pica Pica]

Verse 19 of the Tao Te Ching includes:

Throw away morality and justice,
and people will do the right thing.

Does one really need a moral compass?

How do they know what the right thing is without a compass?

[tekla]

Don't forget 200 years ago we didn't understand bacteria and the cause of infection. Science explained those things in ways we consider nonsense today.

We assume those explanations are nonsense because of a hugely high mortality rate.  Few scientific discoveries equal 'the germ theory of disease" when it comes to radically changing life.  Starting by almost doubling it.

[Anatta]

Don't forget 200 years ago we didn't understand bacteria and the cause of infection. Science explained those things in ways we consider nonsense today.

We assume those explanations are nonsense because of a hugely high mortality rate.  Few scientific discoveries equal 'the germ theory of disease" when it comes to radically changing life.  Starting by almost "doubling" it.

Kia Ora Tekla,

"For better or for worse!" 

Metta Zenda

[Randi]

I am open minded. I much prefer to let others be whoever they want to be. Who am I to judge them yea or nay? It's just not my place to judge.

I will go on to say that the role of a Christian is to present the message of Jesus and not beat others over the head with it nor condemn those who do not accept it. If you have presented it in a rational way that shows someone their life can be improved, then it is time for you to move along and let the message itself and the quickening of the Holy Spirit to do their work.

[Joelene9]

  I voted the "somewhat".  I have some strong differences with certain things, I am not PC.  But I am tolerant.  I have crossed paths with people that are open minded on about everything, but are not tolerant when is crosses their viewpoint.  I had to steer clear of these people in my past.  These were the most dangerous, especially if they were in management!   These people will say the the right things, but if you are in that group they mentioned and you admit that your are "one of those", they seem to make your life harder.  They are fishing.  I have a close minded, but tolerant left wing person as a friend.  At least he is honest!  I had the least difficulty with him than the other males when I came out.  Go figure!  All of my friends run the gamut.  Right, left, straight, lesbian, etc.
  Joelene