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The Passing as Prologue

Started by Padma, July 17, 2011, 07:05:21 PM

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Padma

During a conversation today with a concerned and dear friend about my transition plans...

Friend: so do you want to "pass" as a woman, then?

Me: (after a thoughtful pause...) you know what? What this is all about is that I want to *stop* passing. If "passing" is appearing to be something you're not, then actually I've spent my whole life trying to "pass" as a man, and I want to stop that and just be who I actually am, instead.
Womandrogyne™
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Pinkfluff

That is exactly why I do not use the term "pass". I'm always me. If other people make inaccurate assumptions then that is their problem.
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Whitney

Quote from: Valeriedances on July 17, 2011, 11:35:46 PM
It comes in time, in many cases with hormones and comfort with yourself the longer you are fulltime. Eventually, its not an issue anymore as you relax with your new relationship with society. The more you are committed to every daily living in your target gender, the better your grooming, clothing choices, etc get over time. Your body just changes in time as it accepts your new reality ...as you make it real and declare yourself to the universe. Its a pretty amazing process.

Amen. And to all the people who give me ... "instant feedback". Jokes on you, I get a fat smile whenever I'm visibly notified I've made someone uncomfortable, disgusted, or upset [with my life choice]. I'm sure they deserve it one way or another.
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Padma

I'm not really interested in looking that different from how I already look, in terms of dress and so on - for me, it's all about the anatomy - I don't feel that I have a target gender, just a target anatomy to go with my actual gender. Of course, my feelings may change somewhat (or not) once the HRT starts to kick in, but the point is that I don't have a goal of outwardly appearing a certain way, of appearing to be something in particular to other people - I just want the female body I'm supposed to have, I'm already me, and that's what I want to be "living fulltime". The rest is just cosplay :). We can look exactly how we want to look.
Womandrogyne™
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Cindy

Quote from: Padma on July 18, 2011, 02:26:51 AM
I'm not really interested in looking that different from how I already look, in terms of dress and so on - for me, it's all about the anatomy - I don't feel that I have a target gender, just a target anatomy to go with my actual gender. Of course, my feelings may change somewhat (or not) once the HRT starts to kick in, but the point is that I don't have a goal of outwardly appearing a certain way, of appearing to be something in particular to other people - I just want the female body I'm supposed to have, I'm already me, and that's what I want to be "living fulltime". The rest is just cosplay :). We can look exactly how we want to look.

You have hit the nail on the head. We are already ourselves. Many of us have known our true self and for whatever reason have had to disguise it. I'm a woman, always have been. I'm just getting my style of appearance sorted out. 'cos I like to look feminine and wear feminine clothes. It's how I want the world to see me, for no other reason than that is who I am.

Hugs Doll
Cindy
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Padma

I think this is on my mind because whilst agreeing to start me on HRT, my psychiatrist was giving me a gentle warning that not presenting in 'classic feminine style' is likely to make my ride through the system for getting eventual permission for surgery more rough. I'm feeling very happy to be starting the journey, but at the same time also scared and bolshy, like I'm expecting trouble. I need to use my imagination less!

But it is hard to keep encountering other people's expectations and assumptions around what I'm doing and going to want to do in transition (including the expectations of some trans women) and be able to just stay with myself in that. I have no particular desire to change my voice, or my eyebrows, or my walk... I'll probably change my clothing somewhat once my body shape changes, but not a big change from what I already wear anyway (apart from underwear, of course!). This feeling may change with HRT, or it may not. But at the moment, I'm happy presenting as the person I already am - the engine's fine, I just want the bodywork customised, new exhaust, new intake manifold, stuff like that :D.
Womandrogyne™
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Cindy

I totally understand.

My therapist was very interested in my presentation strategy. He was concerned that I wanted to look like a cross between a professional business woman and a guy who looked  effeminate. I sort of explained that I want a professional look as I change, but I cannot go from female P to female C in one weekend. And also that I want to go out and look nice in the mean time. I think we are getting there.

Cindy 
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JungianZoe

Quote from: Padma on July 18, 2011, 03:58:32 AM
I think this is on my mind because whilst agreeing to start me on HRT, my psychiatrist was giving me a gentle warning that not presenting in 'classic feminine style' is likely to make my ride through the system for getting eventual permission for surgery more rough. I'm feeling very happy to be starting the journey, but at the same time also scared and bolshy, like I'm expecting trouble. I need to use my imagination less!

But it is hard to keep encountering other people's expectations and assumptions around what I'm doing and going to want to do in transition (including the expectations of some trans women) and be able to just stay with myself in that. I have no particular desire to change my voice, or my eyebrows, or my walk... I'll probably change my clothing somewhat once my body shape changes, but not a big change from what I already wear anyway (apart from underwear, of course!). This feeling may change with HRT, or it may not. But at the moment, I'm happy presenting as the person I already am - the engine's fine, I just want the bodywork customised, new exhaust, new intake manifold, stuff like that :D.

The quoted part in bold would bug the living crap out of me!  What is "classic feminine style" anyway, and who gets to decide?  Just seems like an absolutely ridiculous requirement.

As for changing expectations, I felt just like you going into HRT, but as physical changes began, I decided to accentuate them and hasten the major shifts in public perception (from an androgynous presentation to being 100% female).  Where I wasn't too militant about what people called me, I started insisting that they get my name right.  Pronouns, same deal.  I swore my style wouldn't change because I'd dressed the same for years (again, fairly androgynous) and liked it.  But then I discovered tanktops.  Then sandals.  Then dresses and short shorts.  Now my old band t-shirts and jeans are collecting dust in the closet as I discover new looks, new colors, and this exciting world that opened up to me when I went full-time.

Maybe it's excitement at something new?  Maybe I'm having a girly girl summer?  Whatever it is, I love it and I'm not going to question it.  I love it so much I see it as my new norm.  Am I a bit hesitant at shedding my old punk/goth style?  Not really... I've done it for too long anyway.  I went to a gothnic yesterday (that is, a goth picnic) dressed in a black-and-white striped skirt and a plain black t-shirt.  I didn't even dress for the event, it happened to be what I was wearing when I found out it was going on and immediately dropped what I was doing to go see some of my best friends.  And when I got there and saw everybody all gothed out, I didn't feel a tinge of regret at shedding that look.  The fact that I was wearing something marginally appropriate (except for my flowery sandals) was merely a fluke.  I was originally going to wear my short shorts yesterday, which would have been hysterical at the picnic, I thought. ;D

So what on earth am I getting at here?  You never know what can change when you open yourself up to the idea that things may change. :)
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madirocks

This is absolutely brilliant! I know for me I've lived a life of trying to meet others expectations in an attempt to pass as male. Well, I've failed miserably!

What's it matter? I'm more excited about finally getting the chance to BE ME. It's like starting life all over again, but this time doing it right. I've already picked out outfits in anticipation, and honestly, it's okay if it looks odd on me. And really, I'm open to try anything new. And I've already begun reading books and watching movies I've "had no interest in" before, due to fear of being found out.

I start HRT in a couple of months, and I've never been more excited for anything in my entire life. Why? Because that's when I stop trying to pass as male.
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Padma

Quote from: Zoë Natasha on July 18, 2011, 09:52:39 AM
So what on earth am I getting at here?  You never know what can change when you open yourself up to the idea that things may change. :)

Well yes, that's why I keep saying "this might change, and it might not" :)

I guess what I'm butting up against is the assumption that "appearing to be a woman" is my chief goal in life. I don't know how I'm going to want to dress and look once my body changes (and bearing in mind I'm almost 50, and very tall and a bit asymmetrical, my dignified options are narrower - assuming it turns out I want to look dignified ;D), but at the moment, the kind of woman I most want to emulate happens to be the kind of woman that some people out there don't even consider to be a "real woman", so screw that as a yardstick :). I'll just go for the clothes I think will look good on me and get on with it.
Womandrogyne™
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LilKittyCatZoey

Quote from: Padma on July 18, 2011, 10:43:58 AM
Well yes, that's why I keep saying "this might change, and it might not" :)

I guess what I'm butting up against is the assumption that "appearing to be a woman" is my chief goal in life. I don't know how I'm going to want to dress and look once my body changes (and bearing in mind I'm almost 50, and very tall and a bit asymmetrical, my dignified options are narrower - assuming it turns out I want to look dignified ;D), but at the moment, the kind of woman I most want to emulate happens to be the kind of woman that some people out there don't even consider to be a "real woman", so screw that as a yardstick :). I'll just go for the clothes I think will look good on me and get on with it.

great attitude
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JungianZoe

Quote from: Padma on July 18, 2011, 10:43:58 AM
Well yes, that's why I keep saying "this might change, and it might not" :)

I guess what I'm butting up against is the assumption that "appearing to be a woman" is my chief goal in life. I don't know how I'm going to want to dress and look once my body changes (and bearing in mind I'm almost 50, and very tall and a bit asymmetrical, my dignified options are narrower - assuming it turns out I want to look dignified ;D), but at the moment, the kind of woman I most want to emulate happens to be the kind of woman that some people out there don't even consider to be a "real woman", so screw that as a yardstick :). I'll just go for the clothes I think will look good on me and get on with it.

That's all any of us can do... pick what looks good on us. ;D  I'll be the first to admit that I look a bit teeny-bopper, but I also look and act a good 10 years younger than I am, so it doesn't look inappropriate.  My therapist asked where I was buying my clothes and I told her it was mostly at a used clothing store that's only a minute walk from the door of my apartment (there's also a giant mall right across the street from me).  She said, "Oh, Buffalo Exchange?"  I said "No, Plato's Closet."  She explained that her choice was for mature women and mine was more teen-centric, and I realized that I really didn't care as long as I looked good in what I bought.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that some of the cutest clothes are small, and those don't fit someone who's 5'11" no matter how skinny they are. :laugh:
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LilKittyCatZoey

Natural thats my word. i want to be natural not i want to pass. but thats just my opinion.
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Padma

Natural's a good word. It's a big part of my internal vocabulary - there's an obscure Buddhist figure who's my lady-love these days, who's called Sahajasundari - which means something like "the beauty of being natural." She runs through the forest naked, with peacock feathers in her hair, laughing at people and teaching them :). The night I finally surrendered to my womanliness last October, she appeared to me in the middle of a dance I was at and woke me up with a laugh. I couldn't be more grateful.

I should probably have explained at the start why I called this "the passing as prologue" - it's a play on "what's past is prologue", a line from Bill Shakespeare, and means "what's already happened is just preparation for what comes next". I meant it as "Passing is what I was doing before - now I'm done with passing, I'm being."

I don't mind what anyone else wants to wear, or how anyone else wants to look - so long as I get to look how I want to and feel happy looking.
Womandrogyne™
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MarinaM

Well, this issue is odd for me. I think of trying to pass as a burden, therefore I chose to transition. Just look at what happens over time (chronological order):



Me, little makeup, having a go at REALLY passing for the people I know for the first time. Compensating big time.



Me, in my coming out video.



With the baby, less makeup, still with the wig, roughly 2 months on HRT.



Two weeks ago, shedding all of my tools for passing. Eventually, you have to stop feeling like you're playing dress up :)



Yesterday, without my glasses.

So, looks can evolve, preferences and feelings change. Though I like getting all dressed up, makeup and all, I rather prefer looking natural and semi- field scientist-y (that's a big part of my life). I have told my doctor's that they may consider me full time as soon as I tell them I am (I might as well go ahead and do it), or they can start the clock on Jan 1st, 2012. This is a fluid thing. They have addressed my presentation before, but I alternate going in to them in full femme and just wearing girl pants/polish/half girl clothes. I'm sure as my body continues to change I will modify my appearance even more. As of now I have no problem bending gender juuuust a little. So, Padma, I share at least this one thing with you: I do this to stop passing. Having to pass sucks, hard.

The problem now is, I can not use either bathroom without people stopping me to direct me to the other one. Such is the nature of the visible life between the genders. All I have left to do is declare myself full time- but I won't do it until my facial hair is greatly reduced. This really has more to do with, well, the complete package.
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Ann Onymous

I would have gone bat-->-bleeped-<- bonkers if I had to conform to some hyper-feminine image back in the day...instead I just had to get beyond the dinosaurs who were insisting I was going to have to show interest in guys.  Amazing things happened once I found a nice little lesbian therapist who WAS NOT part of the 'gender community.'  The second letter ultimately came from an undergrad prof of mine who saw me on a regular basis through class and a few dinners with him and his wife plus some class lectures to his graduate classes.  Neither of them wanted some walking stereotype as a requirement for the letter...if I was content with how I presented to the world and the world seemed comfortable with me, that was good enough for both of them. 

Never was into the whole girly-girl thing...ever (not even as a kid).  Even now, I rarely wear much makeup and am far more comfortable in jeans (my office is also happy with that since it meant more of them got to dress far more casual since I pretty much threw out the office dress codes that had been informally enforced prior to joining the current firm).  I could not even tell you when the last time was that I wore either a dress or a skirt...maybe during Clinton's first term?   

That being said, I would likely have had a different outlook if my image had routinely gotten me clocked in the daily interactions as anything other than garden-variety lesbian... 
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LordKAT

Quote from: Valeriedances on July 18, 2011, 10:56:03 AM
Anatomy was the key issue for me as well. I was responding earlier to the title "Passing as Prologue' interpreting that as integrating into the society you live in. So target gender simply means working/living as a male or female, assuming a binary model and that you are not doing so today.

I had to change my biological sexual anatomy. That was the driving factor in everything I did. Without that change I would still have been as miserable as before I did any sort of transition.

This is my point also. The same point is why I had/have a problem with the assertion that social transition is enough. I need to be able to wake and not have this momentary shock each morning when I realize (again) that the body I find is not the body I feel. It is like I have this internal body map and it don't match the physical one. It leaves a feeling that I don't know how to describe. People's perception of me is important to a point but I need the the physical body to match the one I feel if I can possibly do it.
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