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Trans in the Workplace: It’s Not Just About Gender

Started by Shana A, August 02, 2011, 07:45:05 PM

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Hermione01

Quote from: kate durcal on August 07, 2011, 08:23:41 PM
Kyril,

I fail to see just what is so unfair about what Ann posted. Like i said before, I was in the streets at 13 years of age. I mange through hard work and charm to earn 2 doctor, 1 maters, and i m working in a second master. I work in the farm fields, mechanic shops, gymnasiums, school halls, and yes, now I have a wonderful job and make a decent earning. I made many sacrifices when young; instead of buying a motorbike, rode a bike, instead of partying, I read books, etc, etc. And I am not the only one. I plan my life, so what is so wrong to preach planing? And if you are in your late 40's and still doing the ->-bleeped-<- Job you did 20 years ago, whose fault it is? And when you come to me with the lame excuse, I am sorry man, I do not buy it.

I am not being bigot or mean, I am demanding accountability.

Kate D

Did your mother kick you out of the home at 13 yrs of age?  :o

OT:

I don't think you understand or have experienced discrimination in the workplace/school.  It is a great idea to encourage young people to aim for the top but it has little to do with reality if one is different and doubly so if they've experienced bullying and abuse first hand.

Society does not take too kindly to differences which many consider to be one's own doing and this is why many who have experienced it or care for others less fortunate, fight for anti-discrimination laws. 

Some will have an easy time, while many will not, a little bit of compassion and empathy goes a long way.  I cannot tolerate a bully anymore than you can tolerate 'whiners'.  In this we have common ground.







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Anatta

Kia Ora,

::) First I would just like to apologise to Kate, if she found my "joke" about her immaturity offensive...Just for the record it "was" a joke Kate... :icon_bunch: no hard feelings...  ::) I've been subjected to much worse... >:-)

Back to thread topic...

::) For those trans-people who are actually "out" working[especially those who are trans identifiable] they experience what it's like on a daily bases...Those who aren't quite out yet can only speculate on what it's like and how they are going to be accepted by society...With a good education or no good education only time will tell...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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tekla

the pay was poor and Chris hated the job
Odd how often those two things go together like peanut butter and jelly.  ->-bleeped-<-ty job, ->-bleeped-<-ty money, and because everyone around you is also pretty much doing the same ->-bleeped-<-ty job for the same ->-bleeped-<-ty money the bitterness and hostility just mushrooms.  Taking the best places/situations/jobs I've had, and comparing them against the worst places/situations/jobs I've had I'll tell you that I'd work for half the amount of money in a happy, productive environment.  However, it goes without saying that the the best places/situations/jobs I've had were also the highest paying.

And 'education' is a very sweeping term.  Mostly it's been used here to refer to college and other degree programs, but there are other forms of education and knowledge.  You can have all the college degrees and people with superior social skills will beat you out every time.  And it's not just going to do itself either.  Hustle baby, hustle.  The person who is up at 6 and doing emails and phone calls by 6:10 is going to beat out the people not doing that EVERY SINGLE TIME.  Most excuses, reasons, and rationales are just long-winded ways of saying "I'm lazy as ->-bleeped-<-."



I am demanding accountability.
Me too.  So answer this...

I mange through hard work and charm to earn 2 doctor, 1 maters, and i m working in a second master.
Really?  Because I'm pretty close to calling shenanigans on that.  And I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that no one with that kind of education would misspell 'manage', and also misspell one of the advanced degrees you've received, you missed the tense on 'manage', 'doctor' should be plural, 'i m' need both a capitol letter and an apostrophe, second use of 'master' (which though some cosmic accident you seem to have stumbled into spelling correctly) should also be a plural.  And, and, and, you don't work 'in' a masters degree, you work 'in' a master program.  You work 'on' a degree.  I'll bet there are even more, but my brain pretty much refused to really try to read that sentence anymore.

When I taught college, at a big science and engineering school, you'd get an 'F" on your paper after 5 basic grammar mistakes.  I refused to read past that.  Really, if you didn't care enough to write it correctly and proofread it, why should I be bothered?  When I went to college as an undergraduate same deal, irregardless of what subject you were writing in, or about.  You had 7 (SEVEN) in one sentence.  My students at the prison where I taught a class or two didn't do that badly.  And don't try with any of that 'I'm not good at typing" jive.  Anyone with 2 Ph.D.s and a masters degree is going to be one hell of a typist after they are done writing those dissertations and the thesis.

People with doctorates (which is what the degree is really called, and anyone who has one knows that), are pretty much incapable of those kind of mistakes, because they don't make it to that level.  Period.  They are not allowed to become Doctors of Philosophy if they can't write.  And people capable of doing that level of work, and doing it right, don't allow themselves to ever vary from that standard either.

Oh yeah, as anyone who has gone through the slice of hell known as a PhD program knows that 'charm' has less than zero value in getting anything accomplished in their program.  You save the charm for the drunk chicks at the campus bars on Friday night.  Or try to 'charm' someone, like a third grader, to show you how to use a spell check/grammar check program on the computer.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Pica Pica

I want to become an honorary Doctor, like Samuel Johnson did. I won't be putting money in a university pot to achieve that one.

Plus, I'll get to do a big speech on graduation day to all the undergrads passing through, and that sounds like a bit of a giggle.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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kyril

Tekla, not that I fundamentally disagree with your post (though I suspect you're about to get warned for it) but you would be amazed at the number of English mistakes a science doctoral candidate can make. I've actually been making a fair bit of money on the side by quietly copy-editing physics grad students' thesis drafts. Most of my clients, of course, are Chinese and Japanese students who have only been in the country for two or three years. But that's not really because they write worse than the longtime US residents; it's because they tend to be more ashamed of showing their advisors any work they can't be proud of. The native English speakers just turn in their verbal diarrhea.


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tekla

Sorry Charlie, but I went to and taught at one of the top S&T universities in the world.  That kind of writing would not get you a Ph.D.  It would get to to a community college.  Really, don't you think that anyone with not one, but TWO of those degrees would, at the very least, know what's it's called?
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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regan

Quote from: Hermione01 on August 07, 2011, 10:36:12 PM
I don't think you understand or have experienced discrimination in the workplace/school.  It is a great idea to encourage young people to aim for the top but it has little to do with reality if one is different and doubly so if they've experienced bullying and abuse first hand.

Society does not take too kindly to differences which many consider to be one's own doing and this is why many who have experienced it or care for others less fortunate, fight for anti-discrimination laws. 

Some will have an easy time, while many will not, a little bit of compassion and empathy goes a long way.  I cannot tolerate a bully anymore than you can tolerate 'whiners'.  In this we have common ground.

I just finished writing a paper on the Americans with Disabilites Act.  I mention this because several unintended consequences came about as a result of the act (and fair warning we're still not covered by it).  First people must self identify as "disabled" under the language of the ADA, which in and of itself sets up an adversarial relationship with their employer, not to mention that most people that qualify as "disabled" don't want to be labled by their disability (and neither do we).  Second, it has created a "right to work" mentality, often amoung the fringe disabled.  Just becuase you are unable to work in one field without accomodation does not equate without being able to work at all and that's what the ADA was intended to protect, not the "right" you think you have to a given job.

As for the education debate, the more (education) you have the more options you have.  There are plenty of people that waited to transition until they got a better job, better education, better living situation, etc and many of those people are a part of this group.  Yes it sucks, but until the situation improves, that's the way it is.

Again, I'll be happy to share my references page if anyone wants to fact check.
Our biograhies are our own and we need to accept our own diversity without being ashamed that we're somehow not trans enough.
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regan

In defense of Kate, I believe English is not her first (or maybe even primary) language.

Quote from: kate durcal on August 07, 2011, 08:23:41 PM
Kyril,

I fail to see just what is so unfair about what Ann posted. Like i said before, I was in the streets at 13 years of age. I mange through hard work and charm to earn 2 doctor, 1 maters, and i m working in a second master. I work in the farm fields, mechanic shops, gymnasiums, school halls, and yes, now I have a wonderful job and make a decent earning. I made many sacrifices when young; instead of buying a motorbike, rode a bike, instead of partying, I read books, etc, etc. And I am not the only one. I plan my life, so what is so wrong to preach planing? And if you are in your late 40's and still doing the ->-bleeped-<- Job you did 20 years ago, whose fault it is? And when you come to me with the lame excuse, I am sorry man, I do not buy it.

I am not being bigot or mean, I am demanding accountability.

Kate D
Our biograhies are our own and we need to accept our own diversity without being ashamed that we're somehow not trans enough.
  •  

kate durcal

Quote from: tekla on August 08, 2011, 03:20:59 AM
the pay was poor and Chris hated the job
Odd how often those two things go together like peanut butter and jelly.  ->-bleeped-<-ty job, ->-bleeped-<-ty money, and because everyone around you is also pretty much doing the same ->-bleeped-<-ty job for the same ->-bleeped-<-ty money the bitterness and hostility just mushrooms.  Taking the best places/situations/jobs I've had, and comparing them against the worst places/situations/jobs I've had I'll tell you that I'd work for half the amount of money in a happy, productive environment.  However, it goes without saying that the the best places/situations/jobs I've had were also the highest paying.

And 'education' is a very sweeping term.  Mostly it's been used here to refer to college and other degree programs, but there are other forms of education and knowledge.  You can have all the college degrees and people with superior social skills will beat you out every time.  And it's not just going to do itself either.  Hustle baby, hustle.  The person who is up at 6 and doing emails and phone calls by 6:10 is going to beat out the people not doing that EVERY SINGLE TIME.  Most excuses, reasons, and rationales are just long-winded ways of saying "I'm lazy as <not allowed>."



I am demanding accountability.
Me too.  So answer this...

I mange through hard work and charm to earn 2 doctor, 1 maters, and i m working in a second master.
Really?  Because I'm pretty close to calling shenanigans on that.  And I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that no one with that kind of education would misspell 'manage', and also misspell one of the advanced degrees you've received, you missed the tense on 'manage', 'doctor' should be plural, 'i m' need both a capitol letter and an apostrophe, second use of 'master' (which though some cosmic accident you seem to have stumbled into spelling correctly) should also be a plural.  And, and, and, you don't work 'in' a masters degree, you work 'in' a master program.  You work 'on' a degree.  I'll bet there are even more, but my brain pretty much refused to really try to read that sentence anymore.

When I taught college, at a big science and engineering school, you'd get an 'F" on your paper after 5 basic grammar mistakes.  I refused to read past that.  Really, if you didn't care enough to write it correctly and proofread it, why should I be bothered?  When I went to college as an undergraduate same deal, irregardless of what subject you were writing in, or about.  You had 7 (SEVEN) in one sentence.  My students at the prison where I taught a class or two didn't do that badly.  And don't try with any of that 'I'm not good at typing" jive.  Anyone with 2 Ph.D.s and a masters degree is going to be one hell of a typist after they are done writing those dissertations and the thesis.

People with doctorates (which is what the degree is really called, and anyone who has one knows that), are pretty much incapable of those kind of mistakes, because they don't make it to that level.  Period.  They are not allowed to become Doctors of Philosophy if they can't write.  And people capable of doing that level of work, and doing it right, don't allow themselves to ever vary from that standard either.

Oh yeah, as anyone who has gone through the slice of hell known as a PhD program knows that 'charm' has less than zero value in getting anything accomplished in their program.  You save the charm for the drunk chicks at the campus bars on Friday night.  Or try to 'charm' someone, like a third grader, to show you how to use a spell check/grammar check program on the computer.

I forgot to run the spell check, that is all. I do not know exactly why but in every language I speak, writing and learning grammar, is next to impposible.

Ok, so I blamed it into GID, and I am also a fraud because of my GID, and I am not a socialist and pity-party goer because my GID, wah!
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Arch

Much as I simply adore this sort of Strunk-and-White slugfest, I suspect that this thread has devolved beyond the point of no return. I'm sick of the carping and criticism and nastiness, so I'm locking it. Another mod may come along to unlock it soon, but I wouldn't count on it.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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