That's it - I'm getting an orchie

[JungianZoe]

Quite simply, I've had it with the current situation.

Some of the decisions my doc has made have been inexplicable and it's clear that my case is rather complicated.  Even people who know my doc (my therapist, the head of the center I volunteer with, other transwomen) don't understand what my doc is doing with me.  I had a real discussion about doses today and it turns out what I was given originally for spiro was a very weak dose, along with a very weak dose of E.  My T levels went from 550 to 650 after three months of that, I had no development of any sort, and no suppression of sex drive.  The doc then said that treatment wasn't working, pulled me off the spiro, and put me on depo provera as an AA.  She told me the lack of change was so profound that I shouldn't even count my first three months (and so I don't).

After the depo, my T levels plummeted to 9 and I saw some real development over two months.  But it inexplicably stopped a few months ago with no sign of return.  So at this point, I've had two months of development, two months of breast pain, and two months of breast sensitivity (as in, feeling like a real erogenous zone) for two of the ten months I've been on HRT.  I think that's downright pathetic.  My chest is as sensitive and as sensual as it was before HRT.  It's a total dead zone.

The depo also destroyed my moods and has left me with crippling depression this entire year.  The doc put me on Prozac to counter that, but it seems like the Prozac messed with my hormones because (TMI WARNING HERE!!!!) I wound up with an eight-day erection.  Not full, just partial.  Not enough to cause pain, but enough to cause me serious distress.  So she pulled me off the Prozac and now the black tunnel of depression is beginning to consume me again.  I can't go on crying four to eight hours a day any more.

But today I found hope... two women told me about a local urologist who does orchies for the local community and knows how to do it so that there's enough tissue for good results in future SRS.  And at this point, I'm so desperate that I'm going to do it.

When I see my doctor on the 17th, I'm going to tell her all of these concerns in very plain and unambiguous language.  I'm depressed, I'm frustrated with my complete lack of results, I'm frustrated that my T can't be suppressed, I'm frustrated that she's not giving me any more options (not even injectable estrogen to counter the fact that my liver pulverizes anything I put into my body).  I want an orchie.  I'm going to get it.  I don't care anymore.  All I want is the T to be gone and to go off the medication that leaves me nearly suicidal.  I think about suicide every day, several times a day, though I know I'll never act on those thoughts.  I really do have too much to live for now, which is why the depression is all the more painful and inexplicable.

It's time...

[A]

Quite simply, I've had it with the current situation.

Some of the decisions my doc has made have been inexplicable and it's clear that my case is rather complicated.  Even people who know my doc (my therapist, the head of the center I volunteer with, other transwomen) don't understand what my doc is doing with me.  I had a real discussion about doses today and it turns out what I was given originally for spiro was a very weak dose, along with a very weak dose of E.  My T levels went from 550 to 650 after three months of that, I had no development of any sort, and no suppression of sex drive.  The doc then said that treatment wasn't working, pulled me off the spiro, and put me on depo provera as an AA.  She told me the lack of change was so profound that I shouldn't even count my first three months (and so I don't).

Tell your doctor that, and tell her to either ask a colleague for advice or refer you to another doctor. I don't think paying for a surgery that will hurt your SRS results a bit should be necessary to counter bad medication... If your T levels are low already, it shouldn't be very effective anyway.

[Francis Ann Burgett]

Girl, no matter what do not even think about sucid. word. You are young & have so much to live for.

From your story I would fire your Physician & find a new one!!!! You are in charge not some doctor.

Orcie, I've considered it myself because my T level is high. It does obviously remove all T stuff & you will need less hormones. But it's a big step, if the right T blockers are used there is no need.

Try & be cool girl, we all care about you. 

[JungianZoe]

Thank you both... I just have no clue what to do anymore.  I see no other option than to get this orchie.  Basically, I've lost all hope of anything being right ever again if I don't at least try this.  My transition has completely stopped.  Hormones haven't changed me one iota in two months, and I'm only a few months into HRT.  Either I'm incredibly unlucky or hormones have stopped working for whatever reason.

The only words I have for how I feel right now are "completely devastated."  I've lost my job, half my family, two of my dearest friends (moved to California for grad school), and now all progress from HRT.  All of that in the last two months.  That breast pain was the only thing that kept me going when I lost the rest, and even that's stopped after two short months of growth.  I'm tired of the suicidal thoughts, I'm tired of the tears, I'm tired of feeling like this world is doing its best to crush me into the ground.  There's nothing left... nothing.  I've even hurt the only family who stayed with me, and I never even knew that until last week.  I've hurt everyone I loved like a cruel monster.

I don't know what to do.  My whole life is crumbling and I don't know anymore... I can't handle this.


EDIT - Oh, and I hit a raccoon on my way home tonight.  I'm a vegetarian who doesn't even kill insects and I killed a precious creature.  Why...?  Why now?

EDIT EDIT - I'm sorry... I need help tonight.  Something's very wrong and I can't get hold of my friends.  I need someone.  I'm sorry.

[mechakitty]

You're going to be okay.

No, seriously, I'm certain of it. 

You're in grad school. You've decided to get an orchiectomy, which will help solve your problem. You have a support system of a ton of people online who are here for you, complete strangers who care for you like a sister, because we're all with you on this, sharing the same experience, feeling the same pains.

We've all been there. We've been at the depths of depression, and it freaking sucks. It will pass. This pain will pass. You are making steps to rectify your situation. Nothing is hopeless! You're going to come out of all of this a year or two from now at peace, looking back on these trials that you're going through now, and smiling, knowing that you made it.

No matter how much you think you are, you are so not alone. We share your experience.

Cheers and love,
mechakitttteh

[JungianZoe]

I wish I could be so certain that things were working out.  My brain, every thought in my head, is tainted.  It's bloody.  Every thought I have makes me cry right now: the good thoughts because they feel so foreign, the bad thoughts because they feel so right.  Isn't that what I was told growing up?  I was a monster?  I deserved everything bad that life had to offer?  I'd never be anything?

Oh yes.  Yes, I was told that.  I was told that as my stepmom pummeled the crap out of my head and left me with concussion after concussion.  She beat this little child who was never anything but peaceful and good-natured.  She beat this child because this child was a reminder of a past.  She beat this child more because he cried like a girl.  Because he had a mom who loved him and who called social services because of the well-documented physical scars of his abuse.  But who came to rescue him?  Nobody.  Nobody took me away.  The county didn't care about my condition.

It was beaten into me how black and worthless my soul was.  And I always wish my little child self hadn't been too frail to reject those words.  Even when I know it's not true, those words kill me.  My brain lies and plays tricks me.  I hate my child self.  I love him too.  I want to protect him the way that he protected the little girl who was always inside.

Tonight it's out of control.  Tonight there's nothing good in my head.  Tonight I think the world doesn't need me anymore, and maybe never did.  Tonight I probably shouldn't be here alone.  But I'm always alone.  Who'd want me and my charred soul anyway?  Such a stupid, disgusting, ugly creature.

Maybe I should go to bed.  But I can't sleep.  I can't calm my brain enough to sleep.

This needs to be fixed.

[MarinaM]

I wish I could be so certain that things were working out.  My brain, every thought in my head, is tainted.  It's bloody.  Every thought I have makes me cry right now: the good thoughts because they feel so foreign, the bad thoughts because they feel so right.  Isn't that what I was told growing up?  I was a monster?  I deserved everything bad that life had to offer?  I'd never be anything?

Oh yes.  Yes, I was told that.  I was told that as my stepmom pummeled the crap out of my head and left me with concussion after concussion.  She beat this little child who was never anything but peaceful and good-natured.  She beat this child because this child was a reminder of a past.  She beat this child more because he cried like a girl.  Because he had a mom who loved him and who called social services because of the well-documented physical scars of his abuse.  But who came to rescue him?  Nobody.  Nobody took me away.  The county didn't care about my condition.

It was beaten into me how black and worthless my soul was.  And I always wish my little child self hadn't been too frail to reject those words.  Even when I know it's not true, those words kill me.  My brain lies and plays tricks me.  I hate my child self.  I love him too.  I want to protect him the way that he protected the little girl who was always inside.

Tonight it's out of control.  Tonight there's nothing good in my head.  Tonight I think the world doesn't need me anymore, and maybe never did.  Tonight I probably shouldn't be here alone.  But I'm always alone.  Who'd want me and my charred soul anyway?  Such a stupid, disgusting, ugly creature.

Maybe I should go to bed.  But I can't sleep.  I can't calm my brain enough to sleep.

This needs to be fixed.

I shall not abide this self abuse. Every one of us needs someone to step in once in a while to tell us to stop thinking ourselves to death, I wish someone would have done this for me 8 months ago (I have a VEEERY serious problem of incredible magnitude due to the thinking, but I digress).

Stop thinking yourself to death.
Stop it.
Stop it. We care.

In the short time you have been active here I have followed you with some interest, I have even bookmarked your videos for later viewing, and I do believe that you have a bright future ahead of you as a woman.

As for the orchie, I am also considering that as surgical step one because I'm without good insurance, and (I'm sure) we share the same hatred for that bloody pollutant T, it's terrifying to think of it welling back up in you. I am personally fine with jeopardizing SRS results later to a certain degree. If it will give you rest, then I wish you the best (and let me know who you use, I am open to going out of state).

[AbraCadabra]

Hi honey,
it's OK! You may spit it all out, all the bad ->-bleeped-<-e that happened to you. It should help clearing out some of that bad stuff you held in for so long.

BTW, some of that reminds me of my own early transition when all my own rubbish was surfacing. Layer after layer of that bad onion...
It's like swamp-gas bubbles that keep popping up. After 15 months HRT it's getting a lot better for sure.
In the beginning it felt to me like I had been raped, RAPED, by all about me --- of course what did they know? Nothing!
I do not blame them, seeing just a little boy not acting up to their expectations. I got pummelled, hair pulled, cheeks twisted, beaten so it has an "excuse" for my frightened tears, I could not stop from falling much as I tried.
But you know what, there is an "observer" in all of us and if you take notice of him/her it will tell you --- you'll come out on the other side!
Do not fight those tears, they will wash your soul. Sometimes they just started to run down my cheeks, before coming out, they just ran, I wasn't even really sobbing. Just numbed and tears flowing down.
AND THERE WAS NO ONE THAT WOULD GIVE A ->-bleeped-<-E, same, same as all those years ago. Yes, it's the same old heart-ache that was still there.

So, you may see I been there AND IT WILL GET BETTER! --- A LOT BETTER! What is getting at you is one pile of old unresolved pain that never fully been taken care of. HRT opens the door to your emotions BIG TIME, and so these things just will want to be taken care of.

Nothing wrong with some self-pity at this stage, because no one ever had any pity then, treating you the way you were treated.
But please never forget TO FORGIVE, for your own good sake. Those folks didn't know, or didn't want to know. They kicked your girl-soul with boots in their un-knowing. You need to forgive them and mostly forgive yourself.

Honey, you born this way and it is a bit unusual who we are, we special, and so are you!

We all care here, because WE know!
Love,
Axelle

[A_Dresden_Doll]

I wish I could be so certain that things were working out.  My brain, every thought in my head, is tainted.  It's bloody.  Every thought I have makes me cry right now: the good thoughts because they feel so foreign, the bad thoughts because they feel so right.  Isn't that what I was told growing up?  I was a monster?  I deserved everything bad that life had to offer?  I'd never be anything?

Oh yes.  Yes, I was told that.  I was told that as my stepmom pummeled the crap out of my head and left me with concussion after concussion.  She beat this little child who was never anything but peaceful and good-natured.  She beat this child because this child was a reminder of a past.  She beat this child more because he cried like a girl.  Because he had a mom who loved him and who called social services because of the well-documented physical scars of his abuse.  But who came to rescue him?  Nobody.  Nobody took me away.  The county didn't care about my condition.

It was beaten into me how black and worthless my soul was.  And I always wish my little child self hadn't been too frail to reject those words.  Even when I know it's not true, those words kill me.  My brain lies and plays tricks me.  I hate my child self.  I love him too.  I want to protect him the way that he protected the little girl who was always inside.

Tonight it's out of control.  Tonight there's nothing good in my head.  Tonight I think the world doesn't need me anymore, and maybe never did.  Tonight I probably shouldn't be here alone.  But I'm always alone.  Who'd want me and my charred soul anyway?  Such a stupid, disgusting, ugly creature.

Maybe I should go to bed.  But I can't sleep.  I can't calm my brain enough to sleep.

This needs to be fixed.

I know that old, familiar darkness. I don't know if this help you, but this song always helps me find catharsis, and find a way to manage that feeling of not being able to keep my head above water:

Hours from sunrise, here in the heart of the darkness
Where even demons fear to tread

Restraints that hold you down and render you helpless
Behind the wall a child is crying

You with the broken wings
You the sinner
You the patron saint of self-inflicted pity

In search of the pieces you lost when you fell apart
Suffer the children who, like you, knew no better

Mistakes and abuses
Scars, wounds and bruises
Close your eyes
Close your eyes

If you should fall
If the world turns away
If it all becomes too much
If you can't take the pain

Here you have strength
Here you are safe from harm
Here you have healing
All the things you never had

You don't have to live in pain
in want of things that hurt you more
You don't have to to suffer
for the things you've never had

[JungianZoe]

I shall not abide this self abuse. Every one of us needs someone to step in once in a while to tell us to stop thinking ourselves to death, I wish someone would have done this for me 8 months ago (I have a VEEERY serious problem of incredible magnitude due to the thinking, but I digress).

Stop thinking yourself to death.
Stop it.
Stop it. We care.

In the short time you have been active here I have followed you with some interest, I have even bookmarked your videos for later viewing, and I do believe that you have a bright future ahead of you as a woman.

As for the orchie, I am also considering that as surgical step one because I'm without good insurance, and (I'm sure) we share the same hatred for that bloody pollutant T, it's terrifying to think of it welling back up in you. I am personally fine with jeopardizing SRS results later to a certain degree. If it will give you rest, then I wish you the best (and let me know who you use, I am open to going out of state).

I'm trying... some nights it just feels impossible.  The last four nights have felt impossible.  Almost all of yesterday felt impossible.  What sucks is that I know deep inside that nothing is wrong.  Nothing is different than it was last week when I felt fine (and the antidepressants were still in me).  Actually, I'm back home and that makes things much better.  So why bottom out now?

I get trapped in these little cyclones of thought, which I really think the depo has worsened.  I swore up and down that I wouldn't get an orchie, but anything has to be better than what I'm going through now.  Of course, feeling like I'm unlovable isn't anything new.  That's how I've felt since I was a kid because of everything I went through.  I never knew why I had to go through it when I didn't think I did anything wrong.  But simply being heard was enough for a beating.  Turning on my light after it got dark was enough.  Getting a glimpse of a TV was enough for a beating too, followed by getting locked in a closet.  Saying I was full was enough for a beating and being deprived dinner for two days.  I have a problem feeling like I always need to be punished and that nobody could truly care about me at all.

It's awful, I know...   Because I know people love me and it's so cruel to them to shove it back in their faces by saying nobody cares.

But above all, I need to get off this depo.  When I see my doc on the 17th, I'm going to be adamant about that point and see what options she gives.  But I'm really thinking the orchie is my best option, because I'm having a horrid time on HRT.

[JungianZoe]

Axelle, I'm so sorry to hear that you went through such things as well!   You know, the Siouxsie quote in my signature isn't only there because I love the song, but because the lyric captures how I feel about anyone who suffers.  How much I want to comfort them and talk with them and hold them.  I want to make their pain go away as much as I want my own pain to go away.  But I can't show myself the same love or compassion that I have for others.

As for forgiveness, I forgave my dad and stepmom years ago for what they did.  But every time I forgave them, they did it again.  Then they lied to me a few years ago and manipulated a difficult situation into a very ugly one, for the sole purpose of tearing open all of my old wounds.  I tried so hard to forgive them, but they were relentless this time.  And then they found out I was trans because my stepsister (my stepmom's daughter from her first marriage) took it upon herself to out me because she believed I was doing it wrong by not telling them first.  My dad and stepmom didn't even give me the courtesy of a goodbye, but simply ignored my calls from the day they found out.  I only know they found out because they told my ex and my ex told me.  They don't know my ex and I are good friends again.

So what was their legacy?  Beating the crap out of me, making me apologize for inconveniencing them to the point that they had to beat me, forgiving them, having them do it again, forgiving them, having them lie to me, forgiving them, and then them leaving me.  All they did was destroy my life.  Given that my stepmom has said she hates people, I have no hard time believing that she destroyed me for sport.  She destroyed me for her sick pleasure because she loves nothing more than the sound of screaming children.

That's true, by the way.  She said screaming kids (who were being punished, hurt, or upset) was her favorite sound in the world.  Whenever she hears it, she pumps her fist and says "YES!"  That's the sick freak I had to grow up with.

I will never forgive them again... I did nothing wrong and they shoved all of my goodwill and peace offerings back in my face, along with an added helping of ->-bleeped-<- pie.  They're the root of my life's insecurities and my severe self-hatred.  Since they're permanently out of my life, I'm working hard on demolishing their legacy.  It's just that some nights, like tonight, I slip back to that darkest place.

-----------------------

Dresden Doll, I love that song!   VNV is the favorite band of two of my friends and they got me hooked a good many years ago.  Thanks for sharing that!

[BunnyBee]

I know this isn't you talking.  This is that miasma of bad chemicals in your head, literally clouding your judgement and it's telling you a lot of lies.  I wish I could reach in and pull you through that nasty cloud into reality, but since I have no way of doing that, I'm just going to try to dispell some of these lies.

First, you have been an inspiration to me.  Seeing you always fight so hard to find positivity even in the face of all you've been through in your life has given me perspective and helped me hold onto positivity when otherwise I know I wouldn't have.

Your thoughts and advice helped me see certain things more clearly, again with the perspective, and helped me get through obstacles and even understand myself a bit better.  The latter is a pretty amazing gift to receive btw.

Your friendship means so much to me.  The world DOES still need you.  You are obligated to be here, if only for me.

Second, the physical progress isn't going to be a smooth and steady stream of improvements.  For me, it always feels like two steps forward and one step back, but overall progression is most definitely happening, for me and for you.  You went from an attractive man to an attractive woman.  That doesn't happen without some serious progress happening.  In fact, your transition is one of the more stunning that I've seen.

I know you feel like all the progression has slowed to a virtual halt for the past few months.  Maybe you can take comfort that you haven't digressed like I did last year, for six months...

That's a lot of months to digress lol, yet I feel happier with where I'm at physically than ever now, just 12 months later.  You have to be patient and you have to make sure you look back at the whole and realize how far you've come.

What you don't have to be patient with is this doctor you've been seeing.  How long has this dragged on for, Zoe?  Prozac worked and helped you but had a side effect and the solution was to take you off all meds and hope for the best?  When you've been crying for hours every day?  Not to mention the past.  How does that make sense?  There are how many treatments for depression besides prozac? You seriously need to find somebody that is either more competent or more in tune with your situation, or both I guess.  Please force the issue and make it happen soon.  Please don't let this keep dragging on because I can see these chemicals are pulling you down more and more.

I think the orchie may be a great solution, even if that doctor doesn't really have any magic sauce for the donor tissue.  I'm definitely not saying donor tissue doesn't matter, but you have got to get that depo out of your system, like right now.  You need to be alive, first and foremost.  Because like I said earlier, I need ya.

Hang in there the best you can.  You will be in my thoughts, honey.

[Francis Ann Burgett]

Zoe,

Just so you know there are a lot of us girls that need an orcie to help move forward. It may or may not be right for you.
However I think it's right for me. From what I understand as long as all possible skin is left for GRS it is OK.

We all care for you & I feel your pain. I like you want to be a complete woman & date & be with men so you are not alone at all in your desires.

Again you are a young & pretty woman so please just go slow & make sure your changes are the best possible for you.

Your girl friend,

Francis

[Renate]

I can't address all of your problems, but I say get off the Depo-Provera.
Progesterone is a strange drug and has strange effects on some people, including depression.
Others can eat the oral stuff (Provera) like candy without any ill effects.

I can't say that your spironolactone has been ineffective without knowing the dosage (don't say it!).
It's unfortunate that there aren't any other good anti-androgens available in the US.
In Europe cyproterone acetate (Androcur) is pretty common.

I'm sorry to see things done in half steps, but an orchiectomy might be your best choice.
I'd advise you to find other doctors for other opinions.

[JungianZoe]

I'm so sorry, everyone... last night was a nuclear meltdown.  It's why I become a bit withdrawn when I'm at my worst, so I don't wind up showing that side to everybody.  Last night, though, was too much to bear.

This morning is a bit better, but I'm still shaky.  Need to get ready to go out because I'm pretty sure that will improve my moods tremendously.  Even the task of getting myself ready feels insurmountable though.  Yesterday I totally collapsed into a crying fit in the shower, getting to the point where I couldn't even stand up and just laid in the tub, in a fetal position, crying until the water got cold.  The only thing I could think about was why I even deserved to live.  This is maddening, and this is entirely chemical.  I know the depo is killing me, but it's so hard sometimes to disentangle my own thoughts from the dark visions the depo brings.

All of this is going to be discussed with my doctor when I see her on the 17th.  The paralyzing depression, the long-term standstill in my physical changes, the possibility of an orchie, all of it.

As for last night, I can only say that I'm sorry.  I was closer to the ledge than I've been in half a decade and it terrified me.  It still terrifies me.  There are still a few months left of the depo going through my body and this is what it does to my moods and my thoughts.  I'm driving my closest friends away, and if they go, I don't know what I'd do.  My moods are just no good.

[Francis Ann Burgett]

Zoe, please just relax. try to stop all medication & let your mind clear. Just take a break from everything for a while.

We all care about you. You do not have to do anything if it's not right for you.

[Rabbit]

If I were you I would try to find a way to "escape" a little bit. When you are feeling really crappy, it helps to have a place to just "check out" for a while and have some fun. Like a good game! MMO or something to just sit back and chat with people and relax.

Glad you are feeling better today Tomorrow will be even better than today!

[BunnyBee]

I'm glad you posted something this morning, Zoe.  I was worried about you .   I hate that you have to wait till the 17th.  This feels like its being dragged out too long.

[Bird]

*hugs*

You are a inspiration to me Zoe, please don't do anything to hurt yourself.

As I said before, I wish my transition is half as good as yours in terms of how you look right now. It doesn't matters if you have make up on to pass!

I know that part of this are the chemicals in your head talking, so please, don't let those thoughts dominate you. They are not you honey, these feelings of helplessnes and self-abuse, they are all being introduced into you because of the medicine you took.

Yesterday I totally collapsed into a crying fit in the shower, getting to the point where I couldn't even stand up and just laid in the tub, in a fetal position, crying until the water got cold.  The only thing I could think about was why I even deserved to live

I've been there. MANY TIMES. I lost the count of the amount of days I've cried myself to exaustion... there have been weekends I didn't get off my bed to eat or shower. These things can take you over if you let them. Though I've been there for another reason, exclusively because of a very huge disphoria, I know it is possible to stand up agains't it, even if it seens impossible.

I don't think you should hold any tears back. Crying my soul out was good for me, but avoid the self-abuse when you can. And do see your doc to fix things up in your transition, it is the most important thing we will ever do for ourselves.

Please PM me if you ever want to talk. Just about anything.I wish you the absolute best. *hug*

[JungianZoe]

Thank you all for your kind words of support.   I know this is a support site and all, but I'm not good at showing my weaknesses and usually very careful not to publicly fall apart.  When I get as bad as I was last night, I retreat into solitude.  But solitude is part of my problem right now.  I can't stand it and I don't want it.  I spent a decade as a hermit and now I've done a complete 180-degree turn into a social butterfly who can't be alone.  More than anything, I want to meet a guy and start dating, but I haven't had anyone approach me or ask me out yet.

Which is why it's hard for me to think that I'm pretty... I read stories here all the time of girls being asked out, and I wonder why that doesn't happen in my life.  Part of me thinks that guys see right through me, that I'm not passing.  But another part of me is confident that I pass in all regards: face, mannerisms, walk, voice, you name it.  So why all the insecurity?

I'm just crazy about everything right now.  Loneliness, my sudden lack of development (and even a shrinking of my chest, which was already only half an A cup), this hormonal snafu, antidepressant withdrawal, everything.

And this isn't me... I'm usually a being of light and happiness, not death and misery.  Maybe I should do a depo countdown: two months until it's out of my system!