Youth Transitioning

[PandaValentine]

I always wondered why it took so long for me to come out and after reading this article, I think I have a better understanding as to why.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/08/12/when-boys-would-rather-not-be-boys/

Would you guys like to share any thoughts on this article or why it possibly took you some time to come out, or perhaps your thoughts on sexuality and femininity?

Unfortunately I have met Dr. Zucker and I completely disagree with his theories about children, and I believe that most of them are just repressing their gender. In fact I talked to a few people on this one site who were well into their adult lives who were named successes of Zucker's, what he doesn't know is they ended up transitioning, just took them a long ass time because he made them feel ashamed and such.

Anyways as a kid I was allowed to bend genders. I was at times put in a dress, but sometimes I put them on myself. Why? Well I'm pretty sure it has something to do with my sexuality... not being straight. I mean from what I've noticed from posts, the gay/bi ftms tend to be a bit more feminine in certain ways than the straight ones. But this is just from my observation, and my experience, I may be wrong. But it does make sense because I was reading this book about sexuality and in I believe 80-90% of men (not sure on the statistics anymore) will bend genders (play with dolls, wear girls clothes and such) which could explain why I was more in the middle.

I also think that having an older sister who I had to try and live up to, because she was considered beautiful, talented and so on, that I pushed myself to be feminine to get the same approval. I bet Zucker would argue that I became a boy to get my own spotlight, lol, you can never win with that man because there is always a way to turn it around on us. Like he asked about my sexuality, I didn't know why at the time, and I said I liked men, bi men. I think it confused him. I wasn't really into gay men because most do care about what's in your pants! And although I have a bit of a fetish for straight guys, I'd NEVER go after them, I prefer bi guys because I'm bi. Of course I wasn't sure of my sexuality as the time so I said I didn't have a liking for girls.

So for obvious reasons I think being allowed to do what I wanted made it easier to stay female/a girl, for that long. Unfortunately when I was 14, insecurities hit hard as I was bullied, my confidence shattered and it didn't help that I hit puberty and I think that's why I tried to hide who I was. That was also the time in which I tried to be extremely feminine - did not work for me.

17 - I came out as androgynous, 17 and a half I came out as trans. I came out when I was 15 but went right back into the closet after talking to kids help phone about a plan to fake my death and live life as a man. - I figured since I expressed myself that was all I needed to stay quiet, and apparently it worked... for two years, lol.

Also I didn't know ftms even existed until I was like 17, I only ever heard of mtfs and I wasn't ready for a world were I'd be some rare unknown species.

Oh I also think it's better for kids not to fully transition as kids/young teens, but hormone blockers and encouragement to explore their gender is a must in my opinion. It gave me a somewhat satisfactory childhood. Until I grew breasts and suddenly I didn't want to walk around topless anymore and grew scared of my own reflection. I read this one dad's blog about his son who he believe was trans, and he let him explore his gender, as he grew older he began to do more boy things, and didn't really want to dress like a girl anymore. There's a possibility he could be gay... my nephew on the other hand completely rejects dresses and girl toys and feels insulted if you call him a girl and will even cry over it. So kids do know from a early age who they are, and this kind of makes me wonder will my nephew be straight? What about his younger brother who my sister is pregnant with? As studies do show the chances of a kid being gay increases with the amount of older brothers. The only thing I'm scared of is if being trans actually a genetic thing... I really hope it isn't because it freakin sucks! I would never wish that feeling on someone, being gay, is becoming much more acceptable in this world and doesn't include body dysphoria, hormones, and surgery. :|

Sorry for rambling on... that's I suppose somewhat of a feminine trait... but what the hell, I am bi... I think it's expected of me, lol. (Not that I would ever hold a straight ftm, or a straight cis guy to the standards of being 100% straight... whatever the hell that means...) - This is what happens when I am sick and bored, doubt anyone will read ALL of this!

[RyGuy]

that link doesn't work for me.

but as a response to a few things you have said:

i wore dresses as a child and i am straight. it didn't make sense for me back then to fight what i was expected to wear even though i was a boy. i just didn't care that much. if i could play in it, i would have worn purple sparkle tutus. (but not pink, i always HATED pink.)

i also had significant female role models. great qualities know no gender and it's beneficial for all children to learn from members of the opposite sex. most of the best men in the world had/have important female role models. if not, they (generally) tend to lack empathy, compassion, and gentleness.

i disagree with not allowing children to transition. yes, there are children who as a phase say that they are a girl/boy and want to play dress up as such, but phases are pretty obvious compared to the real thing. my best friend growing up transitioned at age 9. from the day i met him, presenting as andro-female unwillingly, (not knowing he was trans or what trans was) he would actually engage in physical violence every time someone would call him by his birth name or female pronouns. one time i got in a fight with an adult woman in the girls' restroom over his right/need to be there (because he looked SO male, but everyone knew him as female). he had ADHD, apparent learning disabilities, severe depression and even mania. he transitioned at age 9 and began playing sports, did his homework every night, and made so many more friends. now he just graduated high school near the top of his class and finished a program for gifted students pursuing careers in the health industry. i am absolutely certain that if he had not been allowed to transition, and simply told to "explore genders" that he would have committed suicide before age 11 or 12. obviously this is not the case for everyone, but making a generalized opinion on what is right for all trans people at once puts some of the most innocent members of the community's lives in danger.

[bojangles]

from the article:
"I have met lots of adults who transitioned in their 20s and 30s and they look at me like I'm the saviour," says Metzger, who began treating transgender adolescents 12 years ago—and none of them have regretted their transition. "They say, 'Oh my God, if there had been someone like you when I was younger, my life would have been totally different.

I completely agree with Metzger. And would have said the same thing if I'd had the opportunity to transition back in my 20s or 30s.

In my case, accepting what I couldn't change was my only known option and I tried mightily to do just that. Yet, here I am. It didn't go away.
I never wanted to be a girl...ever. Choices were limited then. Today, they are not. To my mind, forcing a child to just "learn to live with it" when there are other options is not much different from forcing intersexed children to learn to live with the wrong parts.

[TheAwesomePrussia]

I don't find your rambling particularly feminine. It just makes you a public speaker. I'm straight, still talk a lot, and I'm studying to be an international politician. So I'll be talking a lot then too, just in different languages.

Anyway. I understand where you're coming from. I wore some dresses for a time. And for a time I thought it was perfectly fine for boys to wear dresses as well. I experimented with being overly-feminine too. And it cost me my happiness when I tried too hard.
I've re-found that happiness, now. And for once it doesn't feel like I have to experiment. For once in my life, I'm no longer just playing a game in the body it gave me, I'm putting my REAL self into it, into life, and actually trying to live. That's the way I see my dysphoria. As this disconnection I had with my life and my body, I was playing a game, not reality, from as far back as I can remember. It makes me very analytical, and observant in the long run. I like to sometimes think of the positive things I got out of it, and that's one of them, tactics. But it still seems almost as if I've never really lived up until now.

I like to think that my life played out this way for one reason or another. And I don't tend to let myself bother with what ifs. So, putting myself aside, I consent, that it would be very beneficial for younger children with symptoms of GID to have hormone blockers. I read somewhere that kids are going through puberty at earlier and earlier ages. Giving them not NEARLY enough time to figure out who they are before they're physical bodies move on whether they're ready or not.

[Dante]

Am I the only one that's jealous of that kid? He's the same age as me and look how far ahead he is. 

Anyway, moving on. I'm a little bit confused on this topic myself, because there are some people who think they are trans when they're young and grow out of it (so to speak), and so it seems a bad idea to give hormones to a kid that's really young. But at the same time, if they really are transgender, then you just forced them to go through puberty, and made it harder for them to transition later. But at any rate, I don't believe it's possible to convince a transgender kid to be okay with their birth sex. I think that children should be supported, and encouraged to question themselves about how they feel, instead of being told how to feel by someone else.

And sadly, this article was right about this; it is becoming a bit of a fad among teenagers to say that they're transgender. I've known quite a few people who said they were transgender just to get attention, and then took it back a month later. I mean, I understand if you're trying to explore your identity (you're not going to learn anything if you don't probe yourself and explore these things), but there have been a lot of people who have said they're transgender just so they can seem "cool". Like it's really cool or something to be an outcast and have to deal with this crap. I'm not going to rant on this topic, I just wanted to point that out. (I also want to say that I don't mean to pass judgement on others: I can't be sure that that is the reason they said they were trans, but it seems to be that way.)

I just wish there was some way to know for sure. Then you could give a transgender kid hormones at a young age, and they'd never have to experience puberty as the wrong sex, and they'd have an easier time with transitioning, and also be able to transition earlier (and not lose their childhood/teen years to suffering because of being trans). If only it were that simple...

Anyway, thanks for sharing the link.

[bojangles]

I just wish there was some way to know for sure. Then you could give a transgender kid hormones at a young age...

My understanding is that they would be given hormone blockers (rather than hormones) until they are old enough to make their own decision.
Am thinking anyone who may be saying they're trans for attention would probably get tired of the attention before any damage was done.
If it's a fad, it probably won't last. What we got does. I care more about those kids...the ones who need the treatment.

[Dante]

My understanding is that they would be given hormone blockers (rather than hormones) until they are old enough to make their own decision.
Am thinking anyone who may be saying they're trans for attention would probably get tired of the attention before any damage was done.
If it's a fad, it probably won't last. What we got does. I care more about those kids...the ones who need the treatment.

True enough. The only problem is, there is some research indicating that those kids who think they are transgender before puberty and "grow out of it" (on their own terms) had to go through puberty first to realize it. I think they say it's the hormones that cause this. (I'm not a medical expert, remember. I'm just recalling what I've read) If this is true, then if we give trans kids hormone blockers, those who aren't actually trans might not realize until it's too late...

I'm not sure I believe that research myself, but it's a thought to consider.

[MaxAloysius]

Wow, that article is amazing. I do have a few things to say though.

First of all Zucker sites the rapidly increasing number of transgender patients as proof that it's becoming a 'trend', when in actuality I believe it is just the availability of the information that means that more and more people are realising what they are. I know I felt wrong as a child, but I didn't know why. No one had ever told me about being transgender, so I'd never considered it. Then one day I found out it was possible, and that there were people born into the wrong body, and suddenly everything made sense to me. If I'd not been introduced to that idea, I might be thirty, or fifty before I realised, or if it was many many years ago, I would have lived out my whole life as a misserable woman, and died that way.

As to him saying there are gay children who decide they're trans to avoid being bullied, well that's just about the most round about stupid theory I've ever heard. Trans people get soooooo much more ->-bleeped-<- than gay ones, it goes without saying.

Also, I'd like to point out that a little boy playing with dolls or tea sets doesn't mean he's trans, it just means he likes dolls and tea. So I'd say his '80% will grow out of it' theory can be proved as utter nonsense if he's using a large group of children who aren't trans in the first place for the study.

On the other hand,  this Metzger person sounds like a god among men. Someone get him a microphone, a huge stage, and the worlds most massive audience, because people really need to hear what he's saying. Just everything he's been quoted as saying hits home with me so completely. Normally when I read an article like this with 'experts' in it, sometimes I'll agree with most of what they have to say, but will still feel uneasy at a few of their ideas, but I would gladly hand my life over to this guy because I can just tell he would do what's best.

Also, yes, I'm only a couple of years older than that guy, but I'm soooooo jealous. I had to go through puberty, so now I have to deal with the body. If there had been intervention just a few years earlier, so much would have been different.

[bojangles]

The only problem is, there is some research indicating that those kids who think they are transgender before puberty and "grow out of it" (on their own terms) had to go through puberty first to realize it.

Wonder how they would know that?
Would like to read more about that research, but am suspicious of it.

First of all Zucker sites the rapidly increasing number of transgender patients as proof that it's becoming a 'trend', when in actuality I believe it is just the availability of the information that means that more and more people are realising what they are. I know I felt wrong as a child, but I didn't know why. No one had ever told me about being transgender, so I'd never considered it. Then one day I found out it was possible, and that there were people born into the wrong body, and suddenly everything made sense to me. If I'd not been introduced to that idea, I might be thirty, or fifty before I realised, or if it was many many years ago, I would have lived out my whole life as a misserable woman, and died that way.

Exactly. As one who was 50 before they got this chance, I'd like to see fewer people have to go through that.
Survival is good, but treating the real issue back in childhood when it first appeared would have rocked.
Too many of us do not survive.

[regan]

True enough. The only problem is, there is some research indicating that those kids who think they are transgender before puberty and "grow out of it" (on their own terms) had to go through puberty first to realize it. I think they say it's the hormones that cause this. (I'm not a medical expert, remember. I'm just recalling what I've read) If this is true, then if we give trans kids hormone blockers, those who aren't actually trans might not realize until it's too late...

I don't think its the biological process of puberty as much as it is the developmental (maturity) process that occurs, they are able to integrate their male/female side in their overall personality. For the truely transgendered, that conflict still exists.  Blocking hormones should have next to no impact on this process then.

The truely "early transitioners" (school aged) are still an incredibly recent development.  I think we need to invest more research in this area, but like all long term studies it will be years before we truely understand it.  Is is possible for them to "out grow" their feelings, or are we depriving them of a relatively normal life by not allowing them to transition.  What are acceptable numbers when it comes to allowing a child an early transition vs. transition being inappropriate for a child in the long term (the child who outgrows their feelings)?

I find it interesting that almost universally, the early transitioners profiled in the newsmedia tend to be extremely feminine (or masculine) and tend to be fairly attractive within the terms of their gender of presentation.  I also find it interesting that few, if any, minorities have been profiled and the families that are profiled are clearly middle to upper class families.  Further if you research it, most families of crossgender living children come from largely metropolitan areas with considerable gender resources.  Further, why haven't any MtF children above about the age of 10 been profiled?  Either they're outgrowing it, or lack of access to HRT is making it less appealing to the general public.

I think far too many questions are left unanswered.  I worry that a number of the borderline cases are being pushed in to a social transition that may not be appropriate.  At the same time I think its crazy that the general public thinks children as young as six have already had genital surgeries (but that's another point).  I worry that overeager parents are supporting their child's right to chose, including detransitioning, but making it hard, if not impossible to do so, by legal name changes, etc.

If its a life or death choice, I think the path is pretty clear.  For everything else, I just think there hasn't been enough research.