Military?

[Kadel]

I'm really wanting to go into the U.S. Navy, due to the fact that going into the military is like a family tradition on my fathers side, I also want to join due to my own personal reasons and admiring the military. Nonetheless, what are the standings that an FTM can enter the Navy, in 2014, and be stealth? Or is that not possible? And could there be any risks to being in the military due to being TG? Thank you very much for those who answer! 

[Epi]

Currently transgendered individuals are prohibited from serving in the military.  Hopefully that will change by 2014.

If you were to try and enlist as an openly transgendered person you would be barred because of medical regulations.

If you were to enlist and then transition while in the military (by means of private health care, not through the military) you could face a reduction in rank and pay or worse, face criminal charges in a military court for varying infractions; such as not meeting grooming/uniform standards for the gender you enlisted as.  You run the risk of receiving something less than an Honorable Discharge as the military has always been very biased against trans-individuals.

[Kadel]

What if I enlisted and had top surgery? Would they still prohibit me from entering?

[Epi]

What if I enlisted and had top surgery? Would they still prohibit me from entering?

Hypothetically, if you got past the recruiter with that one I do not think any doctor at MEPS for any branch would medically clear you for service.  There's really only two conclusions they'd draw and it's either you had a medical condition that required surgery, which would prohibit you from serving because of a preexisting medical condition or assume you did it for cosmetic purposes and bar you because of "mental illness".  (And the paperwork from being barred from military service because of mental illness may turn up later in life where you don't want it to.)

[Devlyn]

Hi Bancho, I'm glad to hear you want to serve! I have stated in another thread that being fit enough to perform their duty should be the only hurdle anyone has to clear for military service. Unfortutunately, it isn't so. Maybe things will change in time for you, I believe entry age is 17-34? 

[Jigsaw]

Age can go up to 42 if reserves and in certain jobs.  Age requirements are waived if you are a certain field like... emergency room doctor.

Bancho,  Hate to say it, but unless you had a total building of idiots you would never get past the entrance facility if you started any form of transition and after sitting through the new policy brief, I doubt it will change anytime soon.  The whole subject of trans everything has been beaten to death. 

If you have top surgery, you would need a doctor consult and/or some type of medical paperwork that stated why you had the surgery done.  There are a few reasons, but none that are easy to get put into writing without medical backing such as the gene that gives a higher risk of cancer plus family history of cancer at very early ages, etc.  Basically, you can't just have it for the sake of having it and expect the military to buy off on it. If you don't have a medical reason, then most likely you are going to be grilled with a pysch evaluation.

If you have T in your system and show any male symptoms....you may or may not get lucky in the exam portion, but then you won't see any T for many weeks after you go to bootcamp and you initial schools.   If you deploy on a ship, you would also never see it. There is just no real way to hide it and the needles and at anytime you could end up with a locker inspection, especially after certain ports and if people have already been trying to sneak illegal stuff onboard.  Not worth the risk IMO.

Then if you made it that far with no problems.... you will have an urinalysis when you check into every command and randomly through your entire career. They check for a lot of different things, so there is a potential that it could be detected and if it is not in your military medical record, you would be held accountable.

As for what Epi said, I have never heard of anything like that happening at all unless it was during a urinalysis exam and popped as a steroid.   If you wanted to serve one tour and then get out.... you could seek therapy while in and may start the transition slowly, but the military would not allow you to reenlist and depending on how long you have on your contract, you will be either allowed to finish or processed for discharge before that.  I am not very familiar with how people have done the therapy the last year or so they were in, but there are folks who have done it. 

[Epi]

If you have top surgery, you would need a doctor consult and/or some type of medical paperwork that stated why you had the surgery done.  There are a few reasons, but none that are easy to get put into writing without medical backing such as the gene that gives a higher risk of cancer plus family history of cancer at very early ages, etc.  Basically, you can't just have it for the sake of having it and expect the military to buy off on it. If you don't have a medical reason, then most likely you are going to be grilled with a pysch evaluation.

If you have T in your system and show any male symptoms....you may or may not get lucky in the exam portion, but then you won't see any T for many weeks after you go to bootcamp and you initial schools.   If you deploy on a ship, you would also never see it. There is just no real way to hide it and the needles and at anytime you could end up with a locker inspection, especially after certain ports and if people have already been trying to sneak illegal stuff onboard.  Not worth the risk IMO.

Then if you made it that far with no problems.... you will have an urinalysis when you check into every command and randomly through your entire career. They check for a lot of different things, so there is a potential that it could be detected and if it is not in your military medical record, you would be held accountable.

"If" he had chest scars that were from some type of non-evasive heart surgery, he might be able to get a medical waiver at MEPS, but since we're talking about "gender alteration" it's prohibited.  He also can't omit or lie to his recruiter or the doctors at MEPS, that would automatically disqualify him from service, and worse, he could get in trouble for making false statements.  Either way transitioning in the military isn't the best idea if you want stable, long-term employment.  Also, if the recruiter knows you are not eligible/qualified for military service and still pushes you through they can face court-martial for knowingly recruiting some who is ineligible for enlistment.  If he was able to enlist and it was found out later he omitted, lied and/or was transitioning while serving they'd  probably court-martial him too.  The military's court system are also extremely different than the civilian one and depending on what type of court-martial you get, you don't get any representation. and you're guilty until proven innocent.  IMO, it's not worth risking your future if you have to omit or lie in order to enlist.

[RyGuy]

i tried enlisting in the navy. that didn't go so well.

during your medical exam they WILL notice that you don't have a dick. they DO have access to your full and complete medical history despite some people saying that they don't under privacy laws. it's the government, what do you expect? you will not get cleared for service as a male because in their eyes you are simply a very confused female. you will not get cleared for service as a female for obvious reasons. even if you were to somehow pass as a male beyond all shadow of a doubt, an invasive chest surgery would almost positively disqualify you anyways because of the implications it has for lifting and such, even if you can lift well. if you have ever seen a therapist, whether or not it was for your gender issues, you will have an absolute hell of a time explaining it to meps. they're very specific about the length of time you can have seen a therapist and for what reasons and still be allowed to enlist. depression/suicidal tendencies is pretty much a spot on disqualifier. gender-bending is unthinkable. they can't have a "mentally unstable" person armed with destructive weapons. you are also not allowed to enter the us navy (or other branches as far as i'm aware) while dependent on prescription or non-prescription medications. you would either have to stop taking t before you enlisted or would be disqualified because of it anyways. at no time during your service would you be allowed to take t whether you got in as a male or a female. they may even view it as abuse for muscle-building purposes. let's face it, these people are NOT experts in trans issues. lying about or concealing any part of your medical/psychological history is a serious offense that might get you in trouble with the law and affect what you can do for the rest of your life. a dishonorable discharge isn't something to joke about.

even if you got in as either gender, how would you deal with showering ass naked with dozens of men who have penises, or women who have breasts when you have neither. not only would you most likely feel extremely uncomfortable, but so would your peers, who may even engage in physical violence against you.

as much as you want to serve, it really probably isn't worth it. i'm going to go as far as saying that it is completely impossible unless you have never made any steps towards transition in your life and do not plan to even talk about the subject to anyone for at least a decade.

[Devlyn]

I'll probably catch hell for saying this here, but how about putting off transition until after you serve a hitch? If you're looking to enter in 2014, I'm guessing you're young. Don't post your age, I think that breaks a site rule. You could serve your country and then be in a better position to go forward.

[Jigsaw]

The military as a whole is very good at digging up things, but they are not perfect. 
They can't dig up your whole medical history if you are not admitting it. Also, if you are not using insurance to pay for a medical procedure/therapy/treatment, etc. there is no record of it outside of that doctor.  The way they figure medical items out is by admission and through the exams at the Entrance facility.
They can and will dig up anything that has happened in the court systems even if it's sealed.

Bottom line regardless of the branch is once don't ask, don't tell is dropped (I believe next month) you can enter the service as a lesbian.  I know not what anybody wants to be labeled.... but it's the only choice at this time.  Once you are done with bootcamp and initial training, then you can wear a binder and have a semi-decent life just without T.  You can even change your name in the service. I did it, one of my friends still in the military just did it.  You can have hysto. surgery and eat a diet that promotes natural T and almost feel like you are slowly transitioning.  You can have friends....just not ones who are in the military and depending on where you are stationed that is easy.   You can have some in the military, but I highly recommend against it unless you have a ton of time around them and can honestly trust them, but be cautious I have seen the witch hunts so to speak for gay/lesbian folks who are or have served under Don't Ask, Don't Tell. 

I did it for 20 years and while I really wish I could have transitioned earlier, I don't regret retirement.  It does have it's perks, but having to postpone your life really sucks.  It's a give and take, but at least once don't ask, don't tell is officially dropped you will have a much easier time with life in the military if you choose to go that route.   I could not even talk about my relationship or mention a roommate.

I hope one day trans folks will be able to serve without fear or regulations, but I honestly don't see it because of the varying differences between each person and how they could keep people safe and maintain readiness. Some countries allow trans folks to serve, but those countries are generally less phobic and all.  After living overseas for a while I returned to the US and saw how different things were. No country is perfect, but we have a ways to go.

[LaPapito]

I agree with Jigsaw...I too did X-amount of years in the service...and saw good service members, deleted from service, because of their sexual preference...I knew to keep my mouth shout and my enemies very close at hand...

The Americus, is NOT, as tolerate as, other countries, this is also true...
So I agree with most, get off the "T" if you really are serious about serving your country...
You can bind with special "binding" T-shirts...that will give you the chest you desire...for a spell...
You can get a hysto...without suspicions arising, and
You can get a name change...all of which are in your powers, if you truly wish to enlist in the service...

but as was also noted...if you try to transition while in the service...unless you are out to gain fame...is a serious "NO-GO"
and an offense within the military punishable by a Dishonorable Discharge, without any hopes of returning to any Branch of the service...because your RE-Code would be 4, DQed from admission into ANY Branch of the service...

As a former member of the Armed Forces..it's really not that easy to hid your sexual preference, because someone is always going to question something about, "like I never see you on a date, don't you like guys?" or, "We've heard some talk...and it's about a reference you made about PFC Kendell...." "Someone overheard you say something like 'Man look at the racks on that chick, what I wouldn't do...'" even though you might not have expressed this outloud, inside, silently it was expressed, and that's ALL the Military needs...is Probable Cause, to delete you from their service!

I know enough, to know that what I speak is the truth...medically you WOULD be DQed right off tha bat, because if you present yourself as a male figure with the "Top-surgery" scars 9-X's-out-of-ten...the Doctor is going to know you had cosmetic "Top surgery", and it was no medical condition...as for knowing your complete medical history...not true...they only know what you tell them...I worked in MEPS for two years...

They don't know how many abortions you've had,  had many bones you broke, whether or not you suffer from migraines etc. or whether you had certain operations...if the scars aren't visible or easily recognizable, they won't know....not unless of course, you put said notations on the questionair...in which case, if you are looking to be DQed, then put everything that has ever happened to you, on that particular question sheet 

I wish you ALL the luck, but you know, like the rest of us, if you are NOT going in as your biological form, you are NOT going in at all...sorry but that is just the way IT is right now...I heard someone mention, go in as a Lesbian, if you really want to serve, then that might be your best bet! 

[wheat thins are delicious]

As a former member of the Armed Forces..it's really not that easy to hid your sexual preference, because someone is always going to question something about, "like I never see you on a date, don't you like guys?" or, "We've heard some talk...and it's about a reference you made about PFC Kendell...." "Someone overheard you say something like 'Man look at the racks on that chick, what I wouldn't do...'" even though you might not have expressed this outloud, inside, silently it was expressed, and that's ALL the Military needs...is Probable Cause, to delete you from their service!

Except the repeal of DADT is going to make that not a problem anymore. 

[RyGuy]

Except the repeal of DADT is going to make that not a problem anymore.

DADT repeal changes the fact that now you can't be ejected from the military for the sole reason of you not being heterosexual. It doesn't change anyone's attitude that you will encounter.

[madirocks]

Hello!

I hope y'all don't mind a gal joining the conversation.

I'm currently serving in the US military (shhh don't tell anybody) and I've researched this quite extensively. Despite DADT, if they are ever to find out that you're transgendered, you will definitely be kicked out administratively for "lying" during the enlistment process. Even if you're able to set aside your thoughts for a few years (good luck with that!), if at any point they suspect there's something up and you can't handle it anymore, and you state that it's a recent development, you will still be terminated because being transgendered is considered unfit for service.

Here's a helpful link http://www.hrc.org/issues/1544.htm

[LaPapito]

Exactly Ryan & Madirocks...because just like anything else...if you are making the other military members uncomfortable...there will be issues, trust me on this one, the fact that DADT is going to be history so-to-speak, it won't be gone forever...

And how are you going to "Holla" discriminatory actions...when they had no problem with you before you were "Gay/Lesbian" to them you were just a regular military individual...but if you NOW become an annoyance...measures and pre-cautions will be enforced....

As a military professional, I did not find military personnel, while in uniform, pleasing kissing their mates, because, I value the Uniform for what it stood for...and I hope that when the "Bill" is enacted, that Our "Gay/Lesbian" Sisters and Brothers, will pay heed to this just as well, yes it is/was a "milestone" but what ruins it...is that there are those that tend to go "overboard" just a little...

And we all know what happens then...ONE ROTTEN APPLE CAN SPOIL A BUSHEL OF APPLES...

So let's keep the "respect" for the Uniform while you ARE in Unifrom..hmmm

And what happens behind closed doors with tha "hot tottie" PFC/L/CPL is no bodies bizzzznnniiizzzzzz

[Devlyn]

"I hope y'all don't mind a gal joining the conversation"  What am I, chopped liver? LOL!

[madirocks]

"I hope y'all don't mind a gal joining the conversation"  What am I, chopped liver? LOL!

I'm sorry Tracey, it's late and I did not see.   

[Devlyn]

It's cool, I got thick skin! Hugs, Tracey

[LaPapito]

  Hahaha...WE were ALL fe-Males at one point in time, birth that is, or WE are aspiring to be FE-males...Soo come one, come ALL, because WE are ALL here for tha same reason...to have a "Like-mind" connection...