how to tell transwomen from crossdressers

[Annah]

AH, Southern Comfort Conference, where passive aggressive trans girls compare their looks against others, where the ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s hover outside for 3 straight days like dogs waiting for the next chicken bone, and trans judging other trans by their looks and not their character.

You can tell I did not have a good experience there LOL!

Some girls were wonderful and I did love the seminars, but Im sorry. It felt like a dragqueen convention to me by many of the things I witnessed.

After that experience, and a couple MTF support groups that reminded me of old church ladies gossiping, I kinda walked away from all of that. 

I am sorry for your experiences

[regan]

AH, Southern Comfort Conference, where passive aggressive trans girls compare their looks against others, where the ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s hover outside for 3 straight days like dogs waiting for the next chicken bone, and trans judging other trans by their looks and not their character.

My therapist has been trying to get me to go... 

Actually your description of it is exactly what I thought/feared it would be, I'm glad I won't be wasting my time/money.

[Pippa]

Simple,  trans women see themselves as a female and want to live in that gender full time.  I put ->-bleeped-<-s into two categories, those that do it for sexual thrills and those that do it as an expression of their gay identity, both these categories do not see aping femininity as a full time situation.  However, it is silly to put people in boxes and it is entirely possible that over time a desire to transition occurs as initial crossdressing is masking a deeper feeling. 

Scratch all of the above, only a psychiatrist can tell!

[MarinaM]

I need an answer from a crossdresser. I mean, someone who solidly identifies as a CD: a person that considers themselves one gender that will tell you that they like to wear the clothes of the other gender and has not really considered transition an option.

I don't think there really is a way to tell. What's the old (sometimes painfully accurate) saying? "The difference between a CD and a TS is about two years?" Do I agree with it? No, not in total, but it does sometimes hold true. The way I do it: If they're presenting like a girl, I call them a girl until I'm told otherwise. I don't make it known that I assume someone is a CD or TS or TG or GQ or A. This has worked well for me around the gender therapist's office.

[wendy]

AH, Southern Comfort Conference, where passive aggressive trans girls compare their looks against others, where the ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s hover outside for 3 straight days like dogs waiting for the next chicken bone, and trans judging other trans by their looks and not their character.
You can tell I did not have a good experience there LOL!
Some girls were wonderful and I did love the seminars, but Im sorry. It felt like a dragqueen convention to me by many of the things I witnessed.
After that experience, and a couple MTF support groups that reminded me of old church ladies gossiping, I kinda walked away from all of that. 
I am sorry for your experiences

Wow too true but an absolutely amazing experience for me. First time I attended I literally cried when it was over.  Loved seminars and many people were super nice and helpful to me.  I went to learn and make a couple of friends.  I did.

Transgender journey has been difficult.  I made some really good friends and found I was not alone in world.  If you can find laughter in Bo Peek Outfits then go.

One more story to muddle topic.  I was in one seminar with feminine dance moves.   I felt attracted  to this guy.  After seminar he came up to me and said, "I find you attractive."  I returned complement.   It was a very odd experience for me.  Now I met several FTM's that I thought were genetic men since they totally passed.  Wouldn't that be funny if he was a FTM since this was SCC.   My perceptions of transgender people were totally incorrect.  Transgender people are just like everyone else with an added dimension of gender challenges.  You do not know.

[Constance]

There's no polite way to ask someone if they're a crossdresser or transsexual.

The only possible exception I can think of was when I went to Carla's in San Jose for a makeup lesson in 2009. Then, I still identified as a crossdresser, not transsexual. I arrived in full male mode and as the lesson began Carla asked just that: if I was a crossdresser or a transsexual. I think it was because at that time I didn't have any plans for hormones or laser, so it affected what she was going to teach me in order to feminize my face with makeup.

[tekla]

Well Carla is nothing if not polite, so perhaps the lesson is that polite people know how to ask polite questions.

[jamie nicole]

here is what I think......crossdressers and ->-bleeped-<-s seem to always over do it with their mannerisms and speech. 
It is also my opinion that CD and TV's are the root cause of issues when it comes to rest room usage.  Too many times the general public has alot of confusion distinguishing between CD, TV and those who are transgender and will often lump us all together when we shouldnt be.

[Ann Onymous]

Too many times the general public has alot of confusion distinguishing between CD, TV and those who are transgender and will often lump us all together when we shouldnt be.

given that those in favor of the umbrella term insisted on including the CD/TV/DQ population in the definition of 'transgender,' is there any really any surprise the general public does not draw a distinction between them and those that are transsexual?

[jamie nicole]

I agree with your point but I am not in favor of including those groups under the umbrella term..........and I do have the opinion that CD, DQ, TV should not be using the female restoom for the simple fact there are no identity issues with them.

[regan]

here is what I think......crossdressers and ->-bleeped-<-s seem to always over do it with their mannerisms and speech. 
It is also my opinion that CD and TV's are the root cause of issues when it comes to rest room usage.  Too many times the general public has alot of confusion distinguishing between CD, TV and those who are transgender and will often lump us all together when we shouldnt be.

To be fair, passing MtFs (and FtMs) shouldn't even be visible in the bathroom.  Truth is there's a greater perception of a bathroom issue then there really is.  As we've talked about in this thread, there really is no polite way to ask someone what gender they are - applies to the bathroom issue too.  Security has been called on at least one occasion becuase someone observed feet pointed towards, rather then away from, the toilet - only to find out it was indeed a cis-woman, she was emptying her urostomy bag.

Sadly, if you don't pass the general perception is that you're a CD/TV.

[jamie nicole]

Simple,  trans women see themselves as a female and want to live in that gender full time.  I put ->-bleeped-<-s into two categories, those that do it for sexual thrills and those that do it as an expression of their gay identity, both these categories do not see aping femininity as a full time situation.  However, it is silly to put people in boxes and it is entirely possible that over time a desire to transition occurs as initial crossdressing is masking a deeper feeling. 

Scratch all of the above, only a psychiatrist can tell!

being transgender does not really equate to having a gay identity........I certainly do not identify as being gay

[jamie nicole]

i also agree with a previous comment that, from what I've seen, CD and TV, will also drastically overdo it with the way they dress........mini skirts, stripper boots, and way too much makeup.
I've always believed that it is not necessary to ask someone.......address them in the gender role they are presenting as

[regan]

I do have the opinion that CD, DQ, TV should not be using the female restoom for the simple fact there are no identity issues with them.

I do agree with you to a certain extent; but in practical application there are a number of problems.  Should they use the men's restroom, would they (and presumably the men) feel comfortable (or safe) in the men's room?

I think the solution is more unisex bathrooms.  Actually, I'd think there wouldn't be a problem if CD/TV's just planned ahead and either "took care of it" before they ventured out, limited their more extended trips to places with unisex bathrooms or of course transgender friendly bathrooms.

[RyGuy]

I do agree with you to a certain extent; but in practical application there are a number of problems.  Should they use the men's restroom, would they (and presumably the men) feel comfortable (or safe) in the men's room?

I think the solution is more unisex bathrooms.  Actually, I'd think there wouldn't be a problem if CD/TV's just planned ahead and either "took care of it" before they ventured out, limited their more extended trips to places with unisex bathrooms or of course transgender friendly bathrooms.

I think that's asking a bit much. if someone told you that because you dress a certain way some days, you had to always pee before you left the house or plan your trips to places only where there was a unisex restroom, it would be massively inconvenient, offensive, and discriminatory. I am not saying that male crossdressers and transwomen are the same, but we are all human beings and deserve at the very least to be able to take care of basic bodily functions without being harassed.

I am not saying that you outright meant to be offensive with that comment, but your exact words are what the people who are insensitive to queer issues say about US. that we should just plan around not using public restrooms because our clothes are not traditional for where we "should be".

[regan]

I think that's asking a bit much. if someone told you that because you dress a certain way some days, you had to always pee before you left the house or plan your trips to places only where there was a unisex restroom, it would be massively inconvenient, offensive, and discriminatory. I am not saying that male crossdressers and transwomen are the same, but we are all human beings and deserve at the very least to be able to take care of basic bodily functions without being harassed.

I'm sorry if my post suggested that crossdressers not be allowed in the bathroom of their presentation.  I was trying to get more at personal responsibilty, and a little planning ahead might go a long way.  You can't always predict when you gotta "go", but I'm sure they don't want "bathroom issues" any more then anyone else.  If they do, then that's an entirely different thread.

If it were me, I'd do what I could to avoid having to use the bathroom in public - but I'm already "pee shy" as it is.

[Annah]

To be fair, passing MtFs (and FtMs) shouldn't even be visible in the bathroom.  Truth is there's a greater perception of a bathroom issue then there really is.  As we've talked about in this thread, there really is no polite way to ask someone what gender they are - applies to the bathroom issue too.  Security has been called on at least one occasion becuase someone observed feet pointed towards, rather then away from, the toilet - only to find out it was indeed a cis-woman, she was emptying her urostomy bag.

Sadly, if you don't pass the general perception is that you're a CD/TV.

I agree with you on your reflection.

Also I would say that it isn't the CDs who ruin it for us when it comes to the bathroom issues. To me, that's like saying sex addicts ruin it for trans to use the bathrooms.

In my opinion, it is not the CDs that ruin it for trans people with the bathroom issue but it is the lawmakers and society who does not understand us or does not want to understand us.

The vast majority of transgender people who got harassed by using a bathroom were usually trans people who could not pass very well. I have very rarely ever heard of an isntance where a man put on some pantyhose and a skirt and went to the mall to use the bathroom. Many CDs very rarely leave their house crossdressed and if they do its a brisk walk outside or to run in and buy something or to go to a cd friendly bar.

[wendy]

I agree with your point but I am not in favor of including those groups under the umbrella term..........and I do have the opinion that CD, DQ, TV should not be using the female restroom for the simple fact there are no identity issues with them.

I asked a pretty transitioning TS which restroom she used.  She told me she used male restroom a month ago because she was with her wife.  A couple of men came into public restroom saw her and then walked back out and thought they entered wrong restroom.  They then looked at restroom signs and decided they were in correct restroom.  They then came back in and were grumbling to each other.  My friend left and told her wife that she was totally uncomfortable doing that any longer.  She now uses female restroom with no issue.

I feel wrong to use female restroom because I do not pass.  I use male restrooms and they grumble.  I asked my wife if she thought women would be offended and she said no there are stalls.

I have talked to cross dressers that transitioned in time I've known them; however they had gender issues when I talked to them.

Wow it's up to person since transgender community is very diverse.

[MarinaM]

being transgender does not really equate to having a gay identity........I certainly do not identify as being gay

Pippa did not mean to lump trans women into her slightly off color definition regarding "->-bleeped-<-s."

"trans women see themselves as a female and want to live in that gender full time.  I put ->-bleeped-<-s [...] into two categories, those that do it for sexual thrills and those that do it as an expression of their gay identity, both these categories do not see aping femininity as a full time situation"

Misunderstanding. I thought about reacting the exact same way, then I read the post two more times.

[jamie nicole]

Also I would say that it isn't the CDs who ruin it for us when it comes to the bathroom issues. To me, that's like saying sex addicts ruin it for trans to use the bathrooms.

In my opinion, it is not the CDs that ruin it for trans people with the bathroom issue but it is the lawmakers and society who does not understand us or does not want to understand us.

I think it's safe to say that it's a combination of the 2 points.  We certainly are very misunderstood.  But when it comes to the point of CD's and TV's, they have no business being in a female rest room and when transitioning, the general public certainly has no way to distinguish if someone is one or the other (TG/TV/CD).  Now remember, TV's are TV because of sexual gratification and excitement and most, if not all, parents would have major issues with them being in a restroom with a young daughter....I know I would.