Androgyny, dysphoria, and other confusion

[valkyrie256]

   Hey lads, lasses, and other folks. This one is a little long, so grab a cup of your preferred drink, sit back, and read on.

   First item is dealing with my feelings of androgyny.  For a relatively brief amount of time, I have been identifying as androgyne. And to a certain extent, it has seemed to work. So far, I've told only 3 people in real life, all whom I trust. But now I'm having doubt, which somehow manifests itself in both directions. Sometimes it's a blanket denial of being anything transgender, and just thinking it may be "I'm a man, but I am not proud of it." But more recently, I've had stronger feelings that perhaps I am woman, but even that doesn't feel 100% correct. It seems that no matter what descriptor I try, it doesn't work.

   One of my theories is that I'm having trouble understanding Androgynes, despite perhaps being one myself. I can fully understand someone being a cis-male or cis-female, as well as being trans-male or trans-female. And I know that, empirically, there are individuals who identify themselves as androgyne, genderqueer, or otherwise feel that they do not fall into the gender binary. And I do know that that is quite likely where I will end up. It's just that there is a part of me that cannot comprehend me being androgyne. It's almost as if that I would rather be one or the other.

   Second item that has been bugging me recently is the idea of dysphoria. From my analysis of the conversations on this forum, it seems that most individuals experience dysphoria at a young age. They know, pretty much from the start, that their biological sex did not fit how they felt in their minds. However, with both my boyfriend and I, we were not aware that our genders were off except within the last year or two, at most. The only reason I can think of is that our personalities "match" our biological genders: he is rather effeminate, and I tend to lean towards masculine. I'm just concerned that since I have not any doubts about these matters during my early years, that I'm just confusing myself or something.

   Anyways, congratulations if you survived this infodump; I hope it makes some sense. I just needed to vent on these things, and perhaps use any advice or words of wisdom people care to give me.

All the best,
Vi

[cindianna_jones]

Well, not having been there, I surely can't help you determine the right box to place your name

Don't worry about it. It will settle in your mind and you will become more comfortable with yourself with time.

[Vincent E.S.]

Actually, it's only been somewhat recently (last six years) that I figured out that the problem was my gender not matching my sex. Then again, I never knew ->-bleeped-<- existed until that time. I'd never heard the word or anything.

I can't really compare myself to you because our experiences and perceptions of ourselves are different, but my wannabe-Vulcan mind wants to throw a theory out:
With transmen and transwomen, even if they're super-flamboyant gay men or butch lesbians, the difference between being a man and a woman is so big (opposite ends of the gender spectrum) that it's [generally] painfully obvious that something's not right, and the transgender in question would, over time and self-discovery, become acutely aware of the tremendous difference between the internal gender and how others perceive his/her gender based only on genitals. However, since an androgyne is, by definition, not on one end of the spectrum or another but instead somewhere in the middle, the difference between actual and perceived gender would be much more subtle, so it could take much longer before you realize that there's a problem, and even longer before you realize what the problem is, particularly if you were allowed self-expression as a child and weren't just taught gender roles. That time difference, coupled with the fact that androgyny as a gender is even less understood than transmen/transwomen would make the journey and realization exceptionally long and difficult.

This is all a big generalization, of course. Some have it easier, some have it harder, but you get the gist of it. I assume.

[Alexmakenoise]

I can relate to your struggle to find the right label.

As far back as I can remember, I thought of myself as a boy, hated being expected to act like a girl socially, and still think like a guy and relate better to guys than to women. 

But I've never experienced the kind of body dysphoria that people commonly describe here.  I'm content with my body, and the idea of having irreversible medical procedures scares me.  When I tried therapy and support groups, people were very nice and supportive, but the message, "Because you're in this situation, you should have surgery and inject yourself for hormones for the rest of your life," didn't sit well with me.  I don't think there's anything wrong with me that needs to be medically corrected. 

Then I realized that I can't relate to this whole "gender" thing, and don't really want to anyway.  I don't want to have to be a gender, and play by a set of rules based on my body type.  I don't want to have to think of other people in terms of their gender.  I simply want to live the way I want to, regardless of gender, and take other people for who they are, regardless of gender.

So now I just say, "F**k gender," and do as I please.  Anyone who tries to put me in a box thereby loses the opportunity to get to know me for the interesting person that I am, which is their loss, not mine.

Throwing away the labels and making your own rules is an option too.

[valkyrie256]

Thank you all for your responses!

Cindi - I know it will most likely work itself out in the end. But right now it's just very stressful. I just wish I could go back to the times where these issues where a non-concern. But life marches on.

Vincent - Ah, it's nice to meet another Vulcan. Live long and prosper!
    Anyways, your explanation of their being a far sharper divide between male and female, and male and androgyne, makes sense. Also, I wasn't really "forced" into any gender role. I knew what I liked, and what I didn't like, and that was that. And what I've liked, for pretty much all my life, has been books and computer games, activities of which any gender can enjoy without stigmatization. And it's only recently that I have gained an understanding of transgender issues; before that I was rather indifferent.

Alex-  Ditch the rules, eh? If I felt that it were that simple, that would be a very tempting path for me. But I see where you're coming from. I don't try to act as any gender. I try to be me. And remember the gender rivalry you get during the prepubescent years? I've always thought that it was stupid. Why you just be yourself? I don't want to be defined by gender; I just want to be defined as me.  But I know that in this society, you're going to be defined by whatever gender is on your legal documents, and if it doesn't match up to how you present yourself, you will eventually encounter problems of some sort. Even if you're the most anti-social person on Earth, you're going to at least have to go out and work, and buy essential for yourself.
    Even so, I am going to do the best I can. I will always be a "male" as far as the legal system is concern, but when I can, I'll just be me.

[Alexmakenoise]

But I know that in this society, you're going to be defined by whatever gender is on your legal documents, and if it doesn't match up to how you present yourself, you will eventually encounter problems of some sort. Even if you're the most anti-social person on Earth, you're going to at least have to go out and work, and buy essential for yourself.

I know from experience that it will cause problems in a lot of places, but there are plenty of places to live and places to work where it won't be an issue, or will even be appreciated.  If you choose to, you can move to a place where gender-variance is accepted, and work with people who are OK with it too.  Anyway, you'll be more successful professionally if you work with people who like you for who you really are.

[Vincent E.S.]

I don't think about my posts before or during my typing of them; I just let the words flow, so I'm glad you were able to understand my blob of idea.

I think that if you had been forced into one role or the other, it would have been obvious fairly quickly that neither one was quite right for you in a way different from everyone else(what person would those roles be absolutely right for?). Kudos to you for being able to figure yourself out, or at least start to. My revelation was fairly easy to come about. Considering that it's pretty difficult to thoroughly cross-examine yourself in many ways, it's cool that you managed to come to the conclusion of androgyny, especially considering that you were indifferent for so long.