OK Ladies, please allow me to clarify,
Let's begin by my apologies to Deb for getting at all off track in making what did become a more personal response to Leigh's initial short quote and response to my statements.
My inital intention, as well as supporting Deb in all she has and does so willingly and consciously face, was to draw the focus even tighter and clearer as regards to the various deep challenges that all of us must clearly face when going up against any part of age-old cultural and societal "norms", which still breed discrimination, hatred, bigotry, invalidation, misunderstanding, and all too often, violence and bloodshed.
I will now carefully examine what was said, by whom, in what specific manner, and explain how and why i have taken it in the manner in which I did.
Let's begin with this very first statement by Leigh:
QuoteDoes employment and physical safety ring a bell?
Leigh, you stated the obvious, in fact overstated, what had already been pointed out in very specific ways by both Deb's and my own prior statements. It wasnt exactly what you said, but the specific manner in which you did it that took me by surprise. First of all, being highly intuitive and psychically sensitive to others in some very pronounced ways, I, in my own gut instincts, did not read particularly positive feelings from your tone of response, although short and succint, since it was redirected, and very specifically towards my own initial statements, which you used as your reference point. This in itself personalizes the dialogue in such a way that invited me to "take it personally", as it were, and so therefore respond back to you in the manner in which i did.
Leigh, You wrote:
"If I am not mistaken my post was to this >>
then what the hell else does it matter what anyone else thinks... and only that. You are the one who has taken exception to my post and for what reason, that I mentioned that in fact it does matter what others think?"
Of course i took exception to what you wrote - you used a sarcastic tone in your initial response that wasnt necessary in illustrating your point about safety and employment. In my dialogue, i obviously pointed out the complete need for greater awareness and preparedness on every level, including personal safety and employment, that we must all have or have had in advance when addressing such deeply impactful life changes as what we are discussing here. You only served to further illustrate every single point that i touched on.
You Also Wrote:
"If someone, such as yourself, chooses to take offense at this then perhaps it is because it does matter."
I did not take offense as much as i felt the need to correct you for taking the uneccessary tone that you used which was if not sarcastic, at very least, somewhat denigrating, possibly combative, and potentially derisive, and if you would like to deny this, you are welcome to, but that is exactly what i felt coming from you on a direct gut instinct level.
You also wrote:
"A person can be sssooo assured of their right to whom ever/whatever they choose but when they are
OUT they they are at the mercy (what there is of it) of society. Did it matter to me what others thought--hell yes. Did it stop me hell no."
Now, in this statement which you have used to further support your tone and viewpoint based on your own quite valid and quite personal experience, you have actaully completely contradicted yourself, and in the process, more clearly illustrated the point that i was initially trying to make in my quote that you referenced as a means of further supporting your stance n this dialogue with me. Here's how:
When you said: "But when they are OUT, they are at the mercy of society. Did it matter to me what others thought--hell yes. Did it stop me hell no."
This would be considered almost an oxymoron because in the one breath you state the concept of being a victim in the metaphorical sense as pertains to the views and whims of society, yet a breath later, you stated clearly that you had self-actualized well past the point of this actually being able to affect the course of your life and directly pertinent decisions in this regard.
Therefore, I contend this is not a valid argument and directly contradicts the concept of self-empowerment necessary to achieve the goals that you have clearly stated you were able to accomplish, REGARDLESS of the rest of society and your life's conditions for that matter. You created exactly what you wanted, and in an amazingly empowered manner through your sheer determination and belief in what you knew you needed to do and what you figured you were capable of doing, so therefore, you were at the mercy of NO ONE and nothing else, but whether or not you could overcome your own fears and obstacles in your own personal living situation.
This, my dear girl, was EXACTLY my whole entire point, and your argument only served to further validate this point, in my opinion.
You Wrote:
"Now for a small history lesson.
6 years ago I walked away from a job of 14 years in management. I moved with no job waiting, no further source of income. to a town where I knew no one. I walked away from everything. For one thing, transition. I did my therapy, my HRT, my RLT and guess what my surgery also. When you have a point from the same place I am perhaps you will see what the view is like.
Until you have ridden the elephant you can only imagine what the truth is."
Did i not, in my second post in response to you, VERY clearly illustrate having to take into account and accepting accountability for the preparedness for almost EXACTLY this very same scenario in the hypothetical for anyone that may have to go through transition ? Not only this, but no one has tried to invalidate your own personal levels of experience in what you had to do, in so doing what you did to get there.
Of course no one is going to understand it exactly from YOUR point of perspective as this is YOUR life and your own very personal experience and specific perspective of it. This does not not mean that it is any stornger, weaker, deeper, more difficult, or more valid than anyone else's simply because they havent gone through exactly the same kinds of challenges in the same manner or context as your own life's experience.
From Cassandra:
"Ladies please, getting a little too caught up in the personal. I found ChefAnnaGirl's post thoughtful except when it started going in this direction."
I really don't think Leigh's question was personal. It was a legitimate question and well on topic.
Leigh did not pose a "question" in this response, Cassandra, she made a *statement* in which the answers were already obvious to anyone reading this dialogue, therefore, "throwing it back in my face" to a certain extent, therefore, making it quite personal.
These are *games*, and while i was addressing very real and very serious aspects of what Deb was intially trying to share with all of us in her initial post, I recieved a game of attack in response from one of your moderators - one that has already shown enough personal strength, courage, and ability to overcome such obstacles in her own life that reverting to such unecessarily petty and bitingly sarcastic games should not be necessary at all for her. I obviously struck a personal note and YOU, Leigh, responded to it first, in very much less than a straightforward manner.
"Lets take a deep breath. Everyone has a qualified point of view here."
This, Cassie, was also exactly my point in some regards and i am glad you said this.
Hugs all around,
Cassie
To Deb, I love and deeply respect you and have always enjoyed the spirit with which you address your life's challenges and those posed by all others to you in this forum. To Cassie, I thank you for your attempt at lovingly moderating what could become a more personal conflict on some levels. To Leigh - you have already proven to yourself all that you possibly could in almost every respect I can think of and I deeply respect you for this, I am not here to do anything other than be as completely straightforward as possible, and if in this process of stating my own perceptions, it strikes a couple chords here and there, please respond with equal intelligence and in as dignified manner as possible - please - I willl commit to doing only the very same thing always.
Thanks all,
Lovingly Always,
Love Forever,
ChefAnnagirl
