seriously contemplating self-medicating hormones

[AbraCadabra]

I was in the same 'Versuchs-Camp' as "Versuchsanordnung" = Test setup :-)

1 YEAR! of RLE before HRT, plain nuts! And NOT negotiable.

Welcome to SoC interpretations.

Guess what I did? Yes, exactly.
Eventually I did convince my the new found GP to GIVE me a prescription. Med-aid covers 1 blood test / year. That is THE best private version (I had then).

I think A LOT has to do with doctors being so afraid just to have THEIR backs covered, because of law-suits.  The patient now is second, just a willing pay object.

I asked my 'gatekeeper' and he confirmed just that, also he has no problem taking as much money as he can.
No more Hippocratic oath, be cynical and take it from where you can. Buy your own wine farm, best 4x4 ML, the list goes on, lets have some more of those 'patients'.

NO exception, and all is covered by SoC interpretation. Great!
Pay or go away.

My personal experience.

Also 'gatekeepers' (psychiatrists only!) are covered by med-aid, - councillors, gender therapists (psychologist) are not.
OK, 2 session / year.

Welcome to the world,
Axelle

[Sarah B]

As others have said self medicating is not the best solution to ones problem.  However, due to ones circumstances self medicating maybe the only solution until one can gain the appropriate medicines legally.

V M is correct in pointing out the Terms of Service (TOS), because this thread could easily violate these rules.  However Veronika is also correct in her post where she says and I quote:

Yes we all know talking about those things is verboten. We don't need to talk about them, anyone who can punch letters into a Google search box can get all that information, it's not hard to find.

As far as it being illegal, there are a lot of things that are illegal, but that doesn't necessarily make them wrong. And there are quite a few things that are legal, but that doesn't necessarily make them right. Not everything is black and white. Laws should only be followed if it makes sense to do so. I don't feel guilty one bit for breaking bad laws.

I don't personally have anything against self medicating if you have no other choice. I don't condone it, but I think in some cases it may be necessary. If I lived in a place where I couldn't get them legally, I'd get them illegally. if I lived in a place where I couldn't find anyone to treat me, I'd treat myself. But only as a last resort.

And for the love of Bob, you can't overdo it. More is not necessarily better.... do it as safely as possible.. 

For those of you who don't like my point of view on self medicating, I'd like to point out that what I've just said doesn't violate any of the rules that VM just posted. And I don't think anyone should do it if they have access to medical professionals who are willing to treat them. But given the choice of a miserable, suicidal existence, or getting the hormones that I NEED illegally... I'd choose the latter.

in your case, you have a doctor willing to treat you. You might just want to start on the anti-androgens now and wait it out. Much safer that way, and cheaper if it's going to be covered by insurance...  or since you posted a monetary figure in pounds, I'm assuming you're in the UK... and all transition-related care is covered by the NHS isn't it?

I know it feels like you need hormones NOW NOW NOW, but honestly you'll get them soon enough... start the anti-androgens (which will likely make you feel a lot better right away), concentrate on other things like hair removal (if you need it) and other transition related things, and before you know it you'll have your hormones. Trust me, I felt the same way... but soon enough you'll look back and realize you've been on hormones a year, two years, five years, ten years, and that few months you had to wait for them is insignificant. A few months is NOTHING... a blink of an eye in the greater scheme of things.. If you stay busy the time will pass so fast, you'll wonder where it went.

So the best solution is to wait it out and get the anti-androgen's in about 3 or 4 weeks as the doctor said and if further delays are encountered then find another doctor.  In the mean time find things that you can do like removal of hair or even practice makeup.  You will be suprised that if you are very busy, time flies and all of a sudden your next appointment is upon you.  I should know, I had to wait two years for my surgery, however, I was working full time and literally I did not have time to scratch myself.

Hedge your bets by making appointments with the NHS (although this way takes a lot longer) so that you can get your hormones from the NHS later on and your name will be down should you decide to go ahead with surgery.  At the same time, pursue the private route (this is often the quicker way) to obtain your hormones if you have the money to do so.  However in this day and age especially in England you will more than likely need to see 'therapists' to get them.

Salisha why not get your name changed?  It would save a lot of hassle from occurring later on and you would be able to get your hormones straight away.  I agree with you I also thought I never needed counseling and I only did it so that I could get my letters for my surgery.  I'm lucky enough that I never had to do any therapy sessions to get my hormones.  I went to a doctor and I got them straight away, but that was 23 years ago and things were different then.  I do find it strange you would have to show them a change of name to get hormones.  Is this just your local doctor requesting this or one of your psychiatrists?

Only you can decide how you go about achieving what you want, we can only offer advice and our opinions.  Take care and look after yourself and let us know what happens.

Warmest regards
Sarah B

[azSam]

Ordering Hormones Online does not mean it's illegal. I can find several websites that will have a licensed doctor write a prescription for you, and that's as legal as it needs to be to ship them. That doesn't mean it's safe. Being safe is a whole other story. But as for legality, it's not necessarily illegal.

[pebbles]

For those of you who are self medicating, do you get your levels checked? What tests do you ask for and how much does that cost?

Thanks,
Jennifer

£100 for 3 months least thats the case with me. I'm forbidden from saying alot on this matter.
I'm in the UK I started taking HRT nearly 2 years ago doctors still haven't helped me. I have no regrets about my course of action.

Following their sick excuse for care I would be dead.

Of course if your gonna self med make sure you know what a low dose is. what a high dose is. How much T your LIKLEY to have. to at least approximate how much T you have.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IA5nokOFh84/R2wl7PSgg6I/AAAAAAAAAxI/5b7_3TYlco0/s400/testosterone+fig.gif

25ish is the peak at T levels (high) so 19 = 45 in T level approximation (moderate dose needed)

Do you have Male pattern baldness would you consider yourself hairy in compairison to your peers are you short stocky figure are you tall and broad.

If your hairy, Short, starting to go bald then your likley to have a high T level. If your hairless tall and gangly then you have Low T.

start your dose low let your liver gain a tolorence and familiarity the dose I'm on now would probably kill me if I'd jumped straight at it.

Know the side effects, And why they happen I'm lucky I'm a biologist here so I'm lucky.
If your ankles swell up your kidneys arn't clearing water properly. dangerous warning sign about hormone blockers.
If you get painful cramps in your legs you might have a minor blood clot in a small Warning sign about estrogen.
If you can check your Heart rate and blood pressure Low blood pressure and a weak slow heart is a sign of potassium poisioning. hormone blocker sign.
Spontanious lactation migranes and difficulty focusing your eyes is hyperprolactimia and your pituitary swelling up warning sign.

I disagree with sarah B it's pointless to even fight facial and body hair without your T level begin supressed. It's just not a battle that can be won. its Like fighting the tide.

[Renate]

Going back to the original premise...

Why is it that you can't get a name change?
I thought it was pretty easy to get one in the UK.

[Princess of Hearts]

The hrt that I bought came from Germany as the packaging and guidance notes were all in German.  I bought them online from a company with London offices.

[Princess of Hearts]

I would like to get on legal hormones but I am very wary of doctors.   Other things that make me uncomfortable with the so-called legitimate route are (1)There is a sense of asking for permission from authority, and as I am an anarchist that doesn't sit very well with me.   (2) I know what I am and going to a gender therapist does somewhat imply that you are not entirely sure of what you are and you what them to define you.   (3) I have never been comfortable with the fetishisation of medicine and the doctor worship that is prevalent in our community.   (4) That last point leads on to this point.   Haven't you noticed that getting the medical community involved implies as sort of parent-child relationship?    The doctors get to decide who you are and what course of medical treatment, if any, is suitable for you.  You are the child asking for help and they are cast as the wise adult who knows best.  If you don't give the textbook replies to their questions you run the risk of being labelled a fetishist.  If you decide to go along with their definition of transsexuality/->-bleeped-<- completely, then you risk being seen as being passive and having stereotypical views of women and femininity.   Another point to consider is that if you lie to them and say 'yes I am attracted to men', ' I am a woman in a man's body', and they discover your deception, you will be labelled as manipulative and deceptive and nothing that you say will be taking at face-value.

I dislike and distrust the medical profession.  I won't go to them like a little girl and ask their permission for anything: 'please sir, define me because I can't do that for myself.   And besides kind doctor sir, if I have a diagnosis from you everyone will NOW have to believe that I really am a woman because (power mad, theory-driven) doctors(Priests, Proselytisers and Dogmatists)in white coats have assessed me and found me to be a bona-fide GID sufferer.'     Do you really want to humiliate yourself like that?

[Padma]

Some doctors are like that (because some people are like that, and doctors are people). But some are decent and supportive and open. I've experienced both, and on the whole more of the good ones than the bad ones. I agree that it's hard to shake off the "visiting the headmaster's office" state of mind when going to a doctor (and it runs deeper the older you are, because us oldsters had it more strongly conditioned into us that specialists are minor deities), but I've found more recently that when I go in with the idea that they're interested in helping me, they much more often just do.

I'm just offering this for balance, and I include my recent experiences with gender psychiatrists and therapists in this.

[Stephe]

Some doctors are like that (because some people are like that, and doctors are people). But some are decent and supportive and open. I've experienced both, and on the whole more of the good ones than the bad ones. I agree that it's hard to shake off the "visiting the headmaster's office" state of mind when going to a doctor (and it runs deeper the older you are, because us oldsters had it more strongly conditioned into us that specialists are minor deities), but I've found more recently that when I go in with the idea that they're interested in helping me, they much more often just do.

I'm just offering this for balance, and I include my recent experiences with gender psychiatrists and therapists in this.

My doctor and my FFS (nose fem) surgeon have been great. They listen to my feedback and pretty much do what I feel is right. We explored a lot of options trying to resolve my medical issues with HRT and he was open for trying about anything. The surgeon was the same way exploring what options I have and in the end let ME decide what I wanted it to look like etc.

<rant> BUT I had to see a therapist for a letter for HRT and THAT was insulting. Like this other girl said, I know what I am, I had been livng full time for over a year and still had to go to like 4 visits over a 2 month period. When I was honest and told her on the first visit "This feels like me having to get your permission for HRT", she turned pissy and she started Exploring that this feeling of permission stems from my dead mother, who has been dead over 5 years. WTF?? Finally on the last session I refused to talk about gender and started talking about my church and my social life etc and at the end she finally said, "So I guess you would like a letter"... All it did was cost me $400 and waste 2 months of my time..</rant>

[Princess of Hearts]

Speaking of gender therapists, psychiatrists etc.   Do you think that male therapists etc have a different view of GID than female ones?   What I mean is do men have culturally conditioned stereotypical views of what it is to be female.  E.g if you go into see them wearing a nice floral dress and noticeable but still discreet make-up, and you talk about 'always being attracted to men' and you appear rather unassertive, emotional and non-threatening to masculine authority.   Would a man be more likely to diagnose you as suffering from a GID than a woman?
  Let us say that you went to see a female therapist dressed and acting exactly as a above.  Do you think that a woman might see your nice dress not as a symbol of conventional femininity but as a reflection of your fashion sense?   As for those behaviours and attitudes listed above: unassertiveness, being 'emotional', and appearing non-threatening.  I think that a woman would not view such behaviour attitudes in a negative light.  What might well appear to a man as 'unassertiveness', could very well be seen as thoughtfulness, and consideration for others.   As for being emotional a female therapist would very likely see that as 'being in touch with your emotions' and a very good thing and a sign of intelligence and maturity.   As women are a good deal less interested in status and hierarchy, they are much more willing to tolerate awkward questions without seeing them as challenges to their authority.

If I did go and see a gender therapist then I would much prefer to see a woman as I could talk to her much more easily and fluidly than I could with a man.   

[jillian]

know the risks, weigh your options.

Make an informed decision.

I took a huge risk by self medicating, and I have only now just begun with an endo, or actually a biomedical HR specialist. However I told her that for me, blood clots and strokes meant nothing compared to the fact that I was going to decapitate myself with a shotgun if I didnt start immediately.

I am not telling you what to do. I am simply saying in my case, it was the only option.  Even to this day there is fear of clotting and strokes, but like I told my therapist, my doctor, and my spouse. I would rather die from a stroke or blood clot then continue living as I was. Some may say, that I could transition without hormones. Well, I sya, I am not you, and while we are very similar, and we share many of the same feelings and fears, we are not identical, and each of us has our own path to walk. Each of which begins in its own  unique way, and also ends in its own way.

Whatever you decide to do,read, inform yourself, and be prepared to deal with the consequences of your actions. Any institution that thinks they know whats best for you, even more so that you do, is guilty of extreme oppression at the most personal level.

I understand the whole idea of committment and making sure this is what you want, but for most of us, this is not anything new. This is something we have lived with and for the most part, know, most of our lives. 

Anyways, whatever you choose, dont let hrt nazis scare you off this site, or away from a dr's care.  If it really is dangerous, then they have to help you, its their oath. Also, this site can be a very helpful resource when your emotions begin to bounce....

[Stephe]

Speaking of gender therapists, psychiatrists etc.   Do you think that male therapists etc have a different view of GID than female ones?   

The one I saw was a post op TS so I thought she might understand? I was wrong I wonder now if a cis therapist might have been a better option?

[Princess of Hearts]

Here is information about changing your name here in Scotland.

" Change of Name

If a person wishes to be known by a different name they are entitled to change their name at any time.  They can change their forename and/or surname, add names or rearrange their existing names.  In Scotland there is no set legal procedure that they must follow in order to change a name.  They can simply start using the new name.

Transsexual people usually permanently change their name once they have reached the stage in their transition where they are living full-time as the gender which matches their gender identity (i.e. the opposite gender to that which they were labelled at birth).  This is often before they have started hormone treatment or had any surgery.

Some other transgender people who do not intend to transition might also permanently change their name, often to a gender neutral androgynous name.  Alternatively, they may use a different name just among friends – in a similar way as the many non-trans people who use a shortened version of a longer name among friends.  It is perfectly legal for any transgender person to use two different names (as long as they are not doing so to defraud anyone) and to have some documents in each name.

There are some circumstances, such as applying for a passport or getting a bank account switched into their new name, when written evidence of the change of name is likely to be required.  This evidence could take the form of a letter from a professional person (for example their doctor), a statutory declaration or a deed poll.  The easiest and cheapest method is a statutory declaration (see below for an example). A practising solicitor, notary public, or other officer of a court authorised by law to administer an oath, needs to witness them signing it.  They should also ask the solicitor or notary public to make several certified photocopies for them.  The cost should be less than ten pounds.

Example Statutory Declaration for Change of Name

I [insert full new name] formerly known as [insert full old name]
and permanently residing at  [insert full home address]
do solemnly and sincerely declare that:

1. I absolutely and entirely renounce, relinquish and abandon the use of my former name of [insert full old name] and assume, adopt and determine to take and use from the date hereof the name of [insert full new name] in substitution for my former name of [insert full old name];

2. I shall at all times hereafter in all records, deeds and other writings and in all actions and proceedings, as in all dealings and transactions and on all occasions whatsoever, use and subscribe the said name of [insert full new name] as my name in substitution for my former name of [insert full old name] so relinquished as aforesaid to the intent that I may hereafter be called, known or distinguished not by the former name of [insert full old name] but by the name of [insert full new name] only;

3. I authorise and require all persons at all times to designate, describe and address me by the name of [insert full new name];

AND I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing the same to be true and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835.

Declared at _________________ on this __ day of ______ 20____ before _________________, a solicitor/notary public/other officer of the court empowered to administer oaths.

Signed:   _______________________ [insert full new name]
(Former signature of former name: ____________________)

Signature of person administering oath: ________________________________
Name of person administering oath:____________________________________

[Steph]

I can't understand why folks are so impatient and willing to take unnecessary risks, that may jeopardize transition.  Why do you care about how long it takes, 1, 2, 3 , 4, 5 years.  I find it amazing that folks can be so short sighted "I want it now", "Why should I have to follow rules".  "Why should I wait", "I don't trust Dr's".  Give it a break.  HRT is only a part of transition, and some would say unnecessary.  Good things coming to those who wait, comes to mind.  One thing is for sure when it comes time for SRS/GRS the surgeon will have a whole bunch of stuff he/she expects their patients to follow and guess what folks... If you don't comply, you ain't getting the surgery.

Yes it can drive folks to distraction, but really you are talking about your future.

[Bird]

@Steph Because five years are five lost years.

I wanted it because I am reaching my 30's and I didn't want to do SRS after I was 40. Without any prescription help in the horizon, I began on my own. In addition, dysphoria was seriously handicapping my happiness and my development at university. I also want to graduate as a woman.

In my opinion HRT is necessary for my transition. My self-medicating is not going to stop me from getting SRS because there are ways around it and for me, specially, I will be able to prescribe myself after I graduate.

I hope this reply helps you to understand.

[kelly_aus]

I would like to get on legal hormones but I am very wary of doctors.   Other things that make me uncomfortable with the so-called legitimate route are (1)There is a sense of asking for permission from authority, and as I am an anarchist that doesn't sit very well with me.   (2) I know what I am and going to a gender therapist does somewhat imply that you are not entirely sure of what you are and you what them to define you.   (3) I have never been comfortable with the fetishisation of medicine and the doctor worship that is prevalent in our community.   (4) That last point leads on to this point.   Haven't you noticed that getting the medical community involved implies as sort of parent-child relationship?    The doctors get to decide who you are and what course of medical treatment, if any, is suitable for you.  You are the child asking for help and they are cast as the wise adult who knows best.  If you don't give the textbook replies to their questions you run the risk of being labelled a fetishist.  If you decide to go along with their definition of transsexuality/->-bleeped-<- completely, then you risk being seen as being passive and having stereotypical views of women and femininity.   Another point to consider is that if you lie to them and say 'yes I am attracted to men', ' I am a woman in a man's body', and they discover your deception, you will be labelled as manipulative and deceptive and nothing that you say will be taking at face-value.

I dislike and distrust the medical profession.  I won't go to them like a little girl and ask their permission for anything: 'please sir, define me because I can't do that for myself.   And besides kind doctor sir, if I have a diagnosis from you everyone will NOW have to believe that I really am a woman because (power mad, theory-driven) doctors(Priests, Proselytisers and Dogmatists)in white coats have assessed me and found me to be a bona-fide GID sufferer.'     Do you really want to humiliate yourself like that?

I went the therapy route, knowing who I was going in.. But then, having grown up in a medical family and having doctor's and specialists as family friends, means that I don''t see them as some kind of demi-god.. They are simply people with a specialist education.. My therapist was more interested in making sure my life was ready for transition and that I had some support, than he was in talking about my gender issues. Sure, it came up, but it was never a major part of our conversations.. After the requisite (for here) number of sessions, he had no issue referring me on to a gynaecologist for my hormones.. All in all, took about 4 months.. No begging or grovelling required at any point..  Nor do I have a real diagnosis of any kind, at least not that I've seen or been told. My referral simply stated that I was 'suitable for hormonal reassignment.'

[Ann Onymous]

I can't understand why folks are so impatient and willing to take unnecessary risks, that may jeopardize transition.  Why do you care about how long it takes, 1, 2, 3 , 4, 5 years.

Because those years can be the difference between life and death in some cases.  They are seriously life altering periods of time.  It has nothing to do with being impatient or being short-sighted.  It *IS* about wanting the medical condition fixed and fixed NOW, not later. 

One thing is for sure when it comes time for SRS/GRS the surgeon will have a whole bunch of stuff he/she expects their patients to follow and guess what folks... If you don't comply, you ain't getting the surgery.

Maybe things are different now than when I had surgery, but getting on the schedule for surgery was the easiest part of the process.  Fortunatley back then, they didn't require letters be from a so-called gender specialist.  If they had credentials issued by the State, their signature on a letter was enough...and as a result, one of mine actually came through a professor of mine.

Yes it can drive folks to distraction, but really you are talking about your future.

And so now you hopefully can see why delays are intolerable and unnecessary.  I lost close to five years due to medical short-sightedness that existed in the so-called community when I was 17.  That was a quarter of my life at the time, pissed away trying to play by the rules.  I still find that to be unacceptable. 

As long as one is aware of the risks and knows how to get to a local lab for blood draws, then I say go for the self-medding if there are no other reasonable options...

[Steph]

@Steph Because five years are five lost years.

I wanted it because I am reaching my 30's and I didn't want to do SRS after I was 40. Without any prescription help in the horizon, I began on my own. In addition, dysphoria was seriously handicapping my happiness and my development at university. I also want to graduate as a woman.

In my opinion HRT is necessary for my transition. My self-medicating is not going to stop me from getting SRS because there are ways around it and for me, specially, I will be able to prescribe myself after I graduate.

I hope this reply helps you to understand.

I understand completely.  I endured as all those here.  5 years isn't such a long time when compared to a life of suffering and the rest of your life in happiness.  There is so much to be done with regards to transition that there will be times when it will seem as though it's not long enough.

I didn't say that it will take five years those are just numbers I included, as everyones time is/can be different.  Mine was 3 years start to finish, not so long.

[BillieTex]

I have done without a doc for years, low doses and subtle changes. but on may last blood test they found my liver enzymes are elevated, i don't drink much - none right now. the hormones may or may not be a factor, but.... after these years I'm hoping i didn't do any damage. 

[JessicaH]

I met with a therapist and told her in the first 5 minutes that I was on HRT already and that I would continues to self medicate until a doctor prescribed the HRT. She completely understood and asked me if I would see a doc about it and I said "of course". I made appt with doc and got what I wanted on the first visit.

The only thing I can say is that if you aren't ready to walk into a doctors office or a therapist's office and say, "Hi, I'm trans. Can you help me?", then maybe you aren't ready to do this. I do have to say that for me, I wanted to do 2-3 months of HRT and see how I felt before I did that. I basically wanted to use HRT as a self diagnostic tool to prove to myself what I thought I already knew. My first T test was under 20ng/ml s oI definately wasnt under the influence of T when I asked for help.