Can There Ever Be An Alliance Between ->-bleeped-<- and Radical Feminism?

[SandraJane]

GenderTrender

Can There Ever Be An Alliance Between ->-bleeped-<- and Radical Feminism?
September 8, 2011

http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/

Can there ever be an alliance between trans and radical feminism? Can you imagine any way in which the interests of genderists and the interests of women can co-exist? Or even align?

As a jumping off point I am posting this thoughtful comment left by a male transgender addressing this very question.

[Arch]

If "male transgender" means MTF, then, no, I don't see any space for an alliance with this particular radical feminist. Did I miss something?

[Lukas-H]

What is this I don't even...

"As trans women have had the harmful effect on women that we're discussing, I think that such a reformation should be treated as 'with-women-or-against-them.' By this I mean that however possible, trans culture should consider itself obligated to take cues from radical feminism (on issues where they would otherwise be sure to conflict). If radical feminism changes, it shouldn't be to better fit trans culture, but to better use it. Trans culture should be subordinate to natal women, and in a pathetic cargo-cult fashion I think it tries to be."

Wow...just...what? I can't even think coherently, my brain is so full of the bullsh*t I read on that page following the link.

I really hope I'm not the only one who finds the "m to trans" or "f to trans" terminology usage insulting?

[justmeinoz]

Sounds like more of the worst of America's need to classify and segregate.  Can't do it with Black people any more, but TS are fair game.   Someone has a pretty poor self image if they have to denigrate others to make themselves  feel more secure. 

Even science can't really agree on what is the ultimate definition of  man or woman.  It's all a matter of words, and as General Semantics teaches, the word is not the object , and the map is not the territory.

As I have said in other posts and forums, I thought Feminists were against people telling women what their bodies should look like, and what they were allowed to do with them.

Karen.

[AbraCadabra]

* As I have said in other posts and forums, I thought Feminists were against people telling women what their bodies should look like, and what they were allowed to do with them. *

Yep, but that obviously exludes anyone not AFAB.

Welcome to supreme discrimination, the femme version of KKK?

Now I better should be silent.

Axelle

[Lukas-H]

* As I have said in other posts and forums, I thought Feminists were against people telling women what their bodies should look like, and what they were allowed to do with them. *

Yep, but that obviously exludes anyone not AFAB.

Welcome to supreme discrimination, the femme version of KKK?

Now I better should be silent.

Axelle

Oh please, no need to shush, I love to read your posts sometimes x3 I think you're 100% right. History repeats itself and you think by now they would realize that the "rabid separatist" idea won't get them anywhere with anyone but the others who agree with them. IMO, let them all stay together, if I identified as female I still wouldn't want to  hang out with that pack :|

[noeleena]

Hi,

Is this about   lesbain feminsts or just normal every day  women ,

I'll put it this  way as theres a big difference. between the two .The movement that started many years ago  not the later groups,  for me i would not wont or even concider joining the later group even tho im a woman . they do not work towards the betterment of women as a whole, & most of my women frinds would not ether,

in the begaining .

womens sufferage 1920's,
the right to vote , own property, equal opportunities in the work force , to name a few,what do the later feminsts do apart from not accepteing of others difference's ,

The hard core (( many,))  wont accept men or trans of any name you wish to give,   i know because i have been involved with them so to put it bluntly any thing that denotes male  you are out , end of.

Now many i know are very accepting & dont have any thing to do with the feminsts or will & i have talked with a good number. they accept me for who i am tho intersexed we are just close friends, no issue's ,

You have to talk with each person on thier own not as a group as you wont see the truth about the people . you can & do have a leader in any group say what they wont to is that then what every one accepts .

i speak for my self & i wont allow others to speak in my stead or for me. why. because others can misconscrew what i have said.

so what denotes a F A B only one who has a womb or looks like a woman or has xy ,
men have xy as well  not just xxy  or any combo of x's & y ,s . intersex is greater than what was first thought. as more light is shown .

just because i was born with out my womb does that say im not a female or woman / girl or F A B......no of cause not , it just means some people need to understand we are not all the same ,

==   just a male or a female  its time these people wake up to the facts & truth not a surposed out of date idear that they are right , the truth is they dont wont to change thier thinking.
Because they ....will..... have to change thier minds,, or preconceved idears.

At the end of all this bickering ,we are still human beings & are we all the same.......

...noeleena... 

[justmeinoz]

Axelle, if anyone here is qualified to talk about the effects of prejudice it is you. You have witnessed the worst of it first hand I'd say from what you have told of your life.

Karen.

[AbraCadabra]

SandraJane, :-)
* I think its against your nature to be SILENT! *

Ah so, :-) can't stop to giggle. Thanks for sharing your truth doll! :-)

I just don't like mud-slinging, really, lest I get some in my own face, ->-bleeped-<-e happens, eh.

So, ---- believe it or not, I can shut up. Giggle :-)

I wish we could love those 'femme KKK' for what they are, alas we best give 'em a wide birth, no?

Axelle
PS: and thank you!

[mimpi]

Sounds like more of the worst of America's need to classify and segregate.  Can't do it with Black people any more, but TS are fair game.   Someone has a pretty poor self image if they have to denigrate others to make themselves  feel more secure. 

Even science can't really agree on what is the ultimate definition of  man or woman.  It's all a matter of words, and as General Semantics teaches, the word is not the object , and the map is not the territory.

As I have said in other posts and forums, I thought Feminists were against people telling women what their bodies should look like, and what they were allowed to do with them.

Karen.

Well said, totally agree 

[eli77]

Those aren't feminists. Not anymore.

Modern feminism passed them by 30 years ago and has divested them of almost all their traditional spaces. All they've got left is screaming hate onto the net in a pointless effort to stave off their steady disintegration. The shattered fragments of the once great second wave of feminism. Pathetic really.

I wonder when they'll finally realize that they lost. That it's time to turn out the lights and go home. The third wave beat the snot out of them in the 1980s, and basically control just about every women's studies and gender studies and queer studies department across North America and Europe, and nowadays most of the women's clinics and shelters and magazines and journals and hell just about everything connected to feminism other than one little music festival in Michigan.

Radical?! They haven't had a new idea in 40 years. They are some of the most conservative people on the planet. Feminism is about freedom. Freedom to be yourself, to be treated with respect and equality, freedom from discrimination and hatred, freedom to work the job and live the life you want. The minute they started dictating how to be and how to live, and how much more equal they are than everyone else... sigh. They lost their way a long time ago. Those aren't feminists. Not anymore.

[TheAetherealMeadow]

Those aren't feminists. Not anymore.

Modern feminism passed them by 30 years ago and has divested them of almost all their traditional spaces. All they've got left is screaming hate onto the net in a pointless effort to stave off their steady disintegration. The shattered fragments of the once great second wave of feminism. Pathetic really.

I wonder when they'll finally realize that they lost. That it's time to turn out the lights and go home. The third wave beat the snot out of them in the 1980s, and basically control just about every women's studies and gender studies and queer studies department across North America and Europe, and nowadays most of the women's clinics and shelters and magazines and journals and hell just about everything connected to feminism other than one little music festival in Michigan.

Radical?! They haven't had a new idea in 40 years. They are some of the most conservative people on the planet. Feminism is about freedom. Freedom to be yourself, to be treated with respect and equality, freedom from discrimination and hatred, freedom to work the job and live the life you want. The minute they started dictating how to be and how to live, and how much more equal they are than everyone else... sigh. They lost their way a long time ago. Those aren't feminists. Not anymore.

I completely agree with you!  It baffles me how they don't realize how they are blatantly contradicting the ideologies that they themselves helped establish, such as biology is not destiny, my body is my choice, etc. It's sad how second wave feminism got poisoned by classism, racism, cissexism, ableism, etc.

[Kentrie]

I followed the link and read and laughed my a** off. Oh my god. What is wrong with these women? Lmao.

[Kentrie]

Does anyone know of any feminist blogs that are against Transgender? I'm looking for a certain one but I can't remember what it is called.

[Arch]

Does anyone know of any feminist blogs that are against Transgender? I'm looking for a certain one but I can't remember what it is called.

I can PM the name of one anti-TG/TS blog. It might not be the one you mean. But we don't mention the blog by name here.