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Would the SOC be any better if run by post-op trans-people ?

Started by Anatta, September 18, 2011, 11:41:47 PM

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Sunnynight

Quote from: Stephe on September 18, 2011, 11:52:24 PM
My therapist was post-op and she really wasn't sympathetic at all to my issues. She totally discounted I had been living full time for over two years. Like that proves nothing about if I am trans enough to get on HRT. If anything I got this "I had to jump through a LOT of hoops so you will too".. I honestly think a sympathetic cis gendered person would be a LOT less likely to have this "You're not gonna get off that easy" attitude that I saw.

Also is someone who -needed- GRS to end their GID going to by sympathetic to people such as myself that had other problems other than what's in my pants at the root of it? Or lets say this post-op was suicidal over their GRS, if they saw people who weren't talking about killing themselves, would they see them as "not serious candidates or they would want to die"?

I think what you are suggesting here is a recipe for disaster.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your concerns here.

Personally, the only individual I'd feel comfortable dictating the terms of my transition is myself.
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Shana A

I was diagnosed transsexual in 1993, which appears to have been during the cusp between DSM-III and DSM-IV. My path is non-op, which feels right for me and my circumstances (financial and other), at least for the time being. If at some time it feels right to do something different, well then I'll do it. I have issues with the SOC, and with the idea that there needs to be gatekeepers at all. Plain and simple, there isn't one right way to deal with GID.

Z
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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eli77

Quote from: Zythyra on September 21, 2011, 08:57:46 PM
Plain and simple, there isn't one right way to deal with GID.

I don't even think there is one kind of GID. The way people express it, it has obviously taken different forms and different paths in many of us. There are probably a few dozen conditions/identities/whatever all stuck under the same label at the moment. And until we get some more information on causes, etc., we should at least TRY to get along despite our differences.

Best diagnostic tool we've got so far is "how do you feel?" And really, I'd much rather people be whoever they want to be, than try to fit us all into a box. That can be the problem with gatekeepers - one size fits all is just not an effective model for the variety of folks we've got here needing some kind of assistance.


I think it's sad that people are getting into fights so intense that eventually someone walks away from the whole mess. As we lose variety, we lose voices, we lose identities that can expand our way of thinking, our way of seeing ourselves and the world. If we could avoid generalities, and stick to our own experiences, we'd be able to talk to each other a lot more easily.

Stephe is possibly as far different from me in her experience of GID as it is possible to get... but by trying not to dictate each others' lives we were able to actually gain some understanding of each other, a momentary glimpse into each others' worlds. Don't like seeing that go. Not over this silliness. :(
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Padma

One of the reasons I bailed out of my counselling training was that I realised I needed to sort out some of my own issues first (which was mainly to do with abuse stuff). Once I am done transitioning, I may well go back and finish my training (if I have any money left by then!) but if I do, I would certainly want very good supervision before taking on transitioning clients, to make sure I keep my own "stuff" around the subject separate from theirs. I've suffered in the past from therapists's "stuff" getting in the way of their objectivity, and I don't see that this arena is any different in its potential pitfalls.

The best therapist is the person you can most easily be yourself with and through, who can reflect you back to yourself in an encouraging way, and enable you - not necessarily the person you have most "in common" with.
Womandrogyne™
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tekla

We could use the lawyer who triggered a lot of this discussion to really help us out here, because so many of those protocols and procedures - like RLE - have as much to do with the doctors trying to avoid malpractice lawsuits as it does with best practice medical research.  It's a whole lot of both, and unless you are looking at both sides, you're not seeing a complete picture.  For better or worse, the patient is not the only person who has a vested interest in the guidelines, protocols, and procedures - not by a long shot.


Second.  What exactly does best practice medical research say in cases of GID?  Who knows?  It's not like there is a huge (much less overwhelming), or even really a sufficient, amount of good solid scientific (as opposed to scientifically-based) research to frame anything like what the 'best practice' would be.

Where exactly are the numbers (and I'm not even sure if we have an agreed upon 'satisfactory outcome' defined even) of satisfactory outcomes for people who have undergone various means and measures of medical and psychological intervention (as measured against a control group who had neither)?  Nowhere.  No such study has been done.  Like I said, I don't even think there is an agreed upon definition of what such an outcome would consist of.  Can we even say that Treatment A: a year's therapy, one year RLE, then hormones, then surgery (all while continuing the therapy), which is the 'classic' approach is better than Treatment B: Hormones on demand, surgery if one wants it/can afford it based on a Informed Consent model, or Treatment C: therapy only, or, or, or... (and all of those compared to a rigorously monitored control group that has done none of this -- so you don't have it going all Hawthorne/Heisenberg on you)?  Are those numbers at someone's fingertips?  Nope.  They just don't exist.  Not even vaguely.  The vast majority of 'evidence' about GID cures is all anecdotal, and such evidence is not reliable because it's self-selecting.


Third.  If there is one bunch of girls in the world who know one thing ... I mean a substantial, if not overwhelming statistical set of girls who know with absolutely certainly - 100% dead certain - that One Size Does Not Fit All it's girls like me.  And, if that is true for something as simple as a pair of panties or stockings, then how much more complex is a combination of psychological and medical interventions?

We accept that in life there are people who can't come close to estimating the amount of money they are spending walking through the grocery store (my ex for one) and there are other people (usually nice, but no fun at parties) who can do quadratic equations in their heads.  In other words we accept that mathematical skills exist in human beings not at a set level, but on a continuum.  We know that is true for people's abilities and levels of being able to read, write and comprehend information.  We know that people are social on a scale from total attention whores who can't stand not being around people, to totally withdrawn and alone persons who hate the entire conversation/party/social deal and actively avoid it.  We know that there are ranges of psychological and physical ailments from very mild to unable to function at all.

It would stand to reason at the very least that both the levels of GID and what they effect differ from person to person, what treatment(s) and at what levels would be effective would also then have to differ from person to person as a consequence of that.  For an example, there are people with GID of some sort in here who seemingly have very highly developed social skills.  There are other people in here who have high levels of social anxiety and really have no idea at all how to deal with, or behave around, other people.  It's not much of a stretch to see how those two people would have very different paths through therapy right from the outset.

So I've never been to sold on the 'one way' approach.  Not when what I have seen how GID fluctuates as much as it does, has as many manifestations as it does.  Is as tied up into other things (sexuality, social skills, family) as GID gets.  And I'm not adverse to finding best practices, methods and techniques that have higher success rates, but I'll need to see some scientific evidence for that first, and I'm not seeing any at all.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Padma

Indeed. And there is statistical evidence (where did I read this recently? can't remember) that an imposed period of RLE before SRS makes no difference at all to the post-op remorse level - i.e. people who have surgery without jumping through the RLE hoops are statistically no more likely to regret it than those that do.

It's something the system has decided is a Good Thing, and that's partly for the benefit of the clients (to give them time to settle into role and be sure of themselves, and perhaps also for people around them to get used to them in their new role and therefore become more supportive), and it's partly for the benefit of the healthcare professionals (to prevent them from lawsuits which lead to more conservatism in the profession). And given that it's a "standard of care" (i.e. a set of guidelines, not rules), there's nothing inherently wrong with wanting either of those two outcomes. It's just that RLE is not relevant for everyone. I count myself very fortunate to have found a psychiatrist who is happy to recommend me for HRT even though I don't present as heterofemme (because some of them are very narrow-minded about such things). My RLE, which is about to start in earnest, will involve me looking like an overtall hippy dyke - but then my body will adjust to help that, thanks to the HRT. The reason (as someone here has mentioned it) why I'm starting my RLE "before my HRT has kicked in" is because I have to. I'm finding it more and more uncomfortable trying to "pass" as male, so I want to stop doing that. Living as female whilst still looking somewhat male may make *others* uncomfortable, but it's going to make me feel happier. That's the plan, anyway - we'll see.
Womandrogyne™
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mimpi

Firstly as someone once said there are women in this world with penises and men without them. It's a fact of life and they have the same rights and right to respect as anyone else. End of.

Secondly I take issue with the feeling uncomfortable in a skirt a business. Only ever saw my second wife in a skirt twice, once at our wedding in javanese traditional dress and once when we went to a fetish club with friends and dressed up for laughs. Same with my best friend except I've never seen her in a skirt ever. Neither of these genetic girls ever felt or feel comfortable in a skirt and dress much the same as I do.

If the appointed gatekeepers have an issue with traditional gender based dress code they need to take a good long hard look at themselves. This is 2011 not 1955.
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Annah

Quote from: mimpi on September 22, 2011, 11:01:07 AM
Firstly as someone once said there are women in this world with penises and men without them. It's a fact of life and they have the same rights and right to respect as anyone else. End of.

Secondly I take issue with the feeling uncomfortable in a skirt a business. Only ever saw my second wife in a skirt twice, once at our wedding in javanese traditional dress and once when we went to a fetish club with friends and dressed up for laughs. Same with my best friend except I've never seen her in a skirt ever. Neither of these genetic girls ever felt or feel comfortable in a skirt and dress much the same as I do.

If the appointed gatekeepers have an issue with traditional gender based dress code they need to take a good long hard look at themselves. This is 2011 not 1955.

the skirt was metaphorical only. I meant to say RLE can help make you more comfortable in presented gender. I should have been clearer.

If anyone wants to present as male but wants a vagina; nothing wrong with that. Everyone is uniquely different. This is what i was trying to converse but also stressed how important rle is for some.
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Anatta

Kia Ora,

::) It would seem some of you were under the impression I meant any unqualified post or non opers [off the street]...So I've just added the following to my first post  "Post and non-opers who are qualified/professionals !

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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