Bigender woes...

[Sevan]

I don't even know how to parse out what's in my head enough to even explain it. I wish I was close enough to someone who would get it...and get me enough to have the conversation go something like this:

"Bigender...stupid. Hurts. No fix...no relief...stupid."

"Oh honey...I know. I get it. It does suck. It is stupid. I'm sorry."

And then I could be done with it, move on...and feel understood rather than trying to write this and achieve the same effect. *sigh*

So I normally identify as androgyn (something singular and inbetween male and female...a blend of the two...but something altogether different. [in my humble view]) And...that's not altogether correct...exactly...but mostly...most days...

I started this journey of self exploration as really identifying with bigender/two spirit. Two selves...shoved into one body, of opposite gender. That quickly turned into a rabbit hole I couldn't take...with no visible means of correction or hope of healing. The only thing I saw that I could do *for myself* so I set about combining the two sides to create one androgyne self. Made the most sense...and I figured i could get away with it.

I did...for the most part. It's worked quite well. Moments of fem self would pop in...that's fine. We can work with that. Moments of masculine self popped in (more often than not really..) and that was fine...but on the whole I stood in androgyn territory. I thought...eureka! I've won!! There was still GID because androgyny was no cure....not easy...by any means...but it was working.

A few days ago I got a hair cut. No big deal...same hair cut I always get...maybe it ended up a little bit shorter than normal but...still. Same hair cut. Now...I haven't had a hair cut since June, and I've been on T in all that time...well apparently things have been changing in my face more than I thought, and the hair cut just really made me NOTICE...and then bring on the internal whining and crying from the female self and the very...distinct feeling of...bigender. And the internal arguing started about just what to be done about this. And really...nothing. Because there's nothing to do. It's not fair, it's not reasonable, it's not easy but I only get *ONE BODY* and there's only so much I can do with it.

I can't be the adorable, short, thin waif of a girl even without T. I can't *be* that. It's not possible. (no matter how much I'd like for it to be possible.) I can't.

I especially can't be that while simultaneously grow a beard and be the strong muscly type. Not possible!!

I'm thinking about getting a wig and playing around with that. Continue to lose weight...soothe the feminine in me as best I can... and (somewhat sadly) progress on. The big unknown about where T will take me. I've been on it for almost two years now...you'd think I'd be pretty well cooked. *shrugs*

I just don't really know what to do other than hold on tight.

I try to give air to both sides...respect both in my endeavors, my crafts, my thoughts, my feelings, and my clothing choices...why the sudden *wallop* over hair as it's always been for...a long ass time!!

GID. Rawr.

[caseyy]

Maybe there is a way to find a balance in terms of your body? myself, personally, I don't want to be some big muscly hulk. I want to be strong and fit, but I'm really not the weight-lifting type. Before I gained a bunch of weight, the exercise I enjoyed was biking and hiking. It built up the legs, for sure, but I still stayed relatively lean. I imagine even with T, it would only affect the legs and not dramatically unless you were competitive. It might even bulk up the thighs to make up for the fat redistribution on T, giving them a more non-gendered appearance in pants. I know that's only one part of what you are struggling with but since you mentioned it specifically I thought I'd address it.

And then I suppose shaving the facial hair and other things would help...if it came to it do MTF type voice work if T deepens it more and hinders passing as female when you want to.

I think another thing, at least in terms of dysphoria that I try to remember is that while GID is focussed on the body, we are not our bodies. If you are more muscular, somewhat taller and bigger, that doesn't invalidate your female side. Why, furthermore, it does nothing to validate your male side - they'd be there no matter what.

This must be a huge struggle. Double dysphoria, so difficult to strike a balance. I hope this helps somewhat.

[ZaidaZadkiel]

aw man :<
All I can offer is some e-hugs
*hugs*
disforia is such a bitch.

I know, we ought to make some myth of disforia, like the greek myths where eris and zeus and afrodite and all that people go and do things, and then we corner disforia in some silly place and make them stay there!
That'll teach this disforia character!

[Virginia]

Oh honey...I know. I get it. It does suck. It is stupid. I'm sorry.

I have the same two-sided bigender dysphoria, Sevan, and just went through a very similar thing with my hair (See https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,105497.msg795791.html#msg795791 )  Sigh. Sometimes it really sux trying to satisfy two genders. It's like a slowly swinging pendulum. Make Sisterself happy and Brotherself starts to grumble; make Brotherself happy and Sisterself starts whining. Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200. Alot of the FAAB's over on Brin's bigender.com have wigs for the exact reason you mention. The best most of us seem to do is a "Mister Potato Head" sort of body we can man up/girl up depending on which dysphoria is stronger at any given time.

[mimpi]

This bi-gender/dysphoria thing would be a great blessing and loads of fun in a perfect world. Really shouldn't be the b***h it often turns out to be in reality. Makes me angry and upset, we have it all in so many ways and yet society despises us and considers us freaks or sexual objects.

Maybe it's the time of year with darkness and cold on its way but I'm feeling in a bad place today. Sometimes one loses the will to fight back and anger slides into depression.

[foosnark]

Wish I had some useful advice.

I have been trying lately to further understand myself, and I've been thinking... sort of like bigender but the two are partially integrated like sides of a jacket zipped halfway up.  Even if unzipped they are parts of a whole.

I feel lucky not to have serious dysphoria.  I almost never really look the way I want, but that's probably true for almost everyone.  I think maybe because I am borderline obese and also look hopelessly male, any dysphoria is rendered pretty much pointless.  Nothing short of magic or singularity-level technology is going to make me able to look right, so there's kind of a Stoic acceptance going on.  The worst I get is self-loathing for being too chicken to shop in womens' departments or speaking up when people are being transphobic.  My weight is my biggest body issue, and I am also resigned to not being able to change that except very slowly and with a lot of work and persistence.

[Eva Marie]

Sevan - as a bigender myself i know exactly what you are talking about. It sounds crazy...... but the best advice i've gotten on how to make sister self and brother self coexist is to force them to have a chat between themselves and come to a workable arrangement.  You can pick a quiet place (your car when you are driving for example) and let it happen. And it may take several "peace summits" before some arrangement can be made. Both sides have to be in harmony on the body you have (ie: who gets control of it in what situations, agreements on hair length, agreements on "switching", etc). And the agreement can change over time as one gender or another evolves; you may find yourself in a constant, running dialog between your genders to keep the peace.

Another suggestion i've gotten is to keep a journal and let whoever is in charge at the moment write an entry. It is interesting to look back through my journal now and see where i've been on this journey.

[Sevan]

Thank you for your responses dear kind folks. *hugs*

Dysphoria does suck. Just...sucks.

There really is a space where Sara overlaps with Evan and that space *is* Sevan....which is why I had hoped that the androgyn look would be the most suitable answer. Most days...as I said..it is. I'm lucky in that. I know a few bigender folks who have no overlap in their beings and...that's just not fair.

Casey I know I don't have to be bulky but...I just *am* by nature. Even just running on the ellitpical bulks me out some. Not a whole heck of alot but it's my natural body shape. I'm no body builder, nor does my male side want to be...but the point is I'm far bulkier than any waif. Even just lifting small weights makes me bulk up a little bit. I suppose it could be just "toned" but...I feel my body is just big. My muscles are the bulky type. (I learned there are two types from my athletic instructor friend. Bulky, and lean "runner" type muscle forms.)

[Sevan]

Sevan - as a bigender myself i know exactly what you are talking about. It sounds crazy...... but the best advice i've gotten on how to make sister self and brother self coexist is to force them to have a chat between themselves and come to a workable arrangement.  You can pick a quiet place (your car when you are driving for example) and let it happen. And it may take several "peace summits" before some arrangement can be made.

Thank you Riven. I don't believe it sounds crazy. I offer this advice to many...even if they're not identified as bigender I think it helps. We all have facets of ourselves that can pull us in opposite directions. Making sure to open dialog is healthy...I think.

We'd be in agreement with the hair up until after it'd happened most recently and all of a sudden...the short hair wasn't/isn't ok with femself. Makes little to no sense. I've been looking at wigs though and I think I may have found one that's suitable and fun. Need to save up my $$s...as we're very very poor at the moment but the time will come when that won't be. Soon...I hope.

[ZaidaZadkiel]

the short hair wasn't/isn't ok with femself. Makes little to no sense.

Yes, girls don't make much sense, sorry bout it lol

[Constance]

Sevan, I cannot possibly imagine what you must be going through. We're here for you.

{{{{HUGS}}}}

[Pica Pica]

I've never really understood the bigender thing, seems like a recipe for certain dysphoria. Not sure how a bigender person is ever happy, there is always one side in the shade, how do they do it?

[mimpi]

I've never really understood the bigender thing, seems like a recipe for certain dysphoria. Not sure how a bigender person is ever happy, there is always one side in the shade, how do they do it?

So you don't see being in the middle as being bi-gender but rather outside gender. Surely that would be a separate gender in itself per se?

[Pica Pica]

More that I don't see myself as split down the middle, with parts of myself semi-autonamous to other parts, I see myself as an integrated whole with swirling type elements mixing in and out of each other. To (essentially) enact the binary divide within oneself is beyond my conception. Those who do it and stay sane are made of strong stuff indeed.

[mimpi]

Would love to get to that point myself but can't. One of my ex's told me the other day that my life was ->-bleeped-<-*d as I should have transitioned while young but life and illness impeded it at the time and thus I was forever condemned to nothingness in a middle that wasn't really me. She left me for not being woman enough and then had the nerve to say life stopped me being so.

Is it bad to live the middle as a compromise or is that self delusion and deceit?

[Pica Pica]

I think it's fine to compromise on areas which aren't core, that all relationships have elements of compromise (even social ones, I'd love to walk around town in a tshirt and underwear sometimes when it's hot, or might feel more like putting my bins out thursday instead of tuesday but I won't).

But to compromise the core bits does seem wrong, however the core bits are not all that large. I can live with an awful lot of people and situations telling me it is impossible to be a person neither male nor female, could be denied most gender expression (say if I worked as a security guard or something) I could be denied asserting myself on a bland form..but I could not be told that I do not feel myself to be an androgyne. The core there is simply that knowledge of what I am, regardless of how this is seen or perceived.

If, in your core you were to know you are a woman and are making do with the middle, then that is bad I'd say, and would only provide unhappiness eventually.

[LilDoberman]

I get it Sevan, I do.  I don't know if mine manifests itself the same, but I get how sometimes nothing is right.  I've been swinging like crazy for 2 weeks, a wig or scarf and skirt  for a  few days, a binder and plaid the next  to balance it out.  It seems that whenever the fem side comes out, the masc side fights back.   Today I'm doing a plain scarf and a plaid shirt with mens jeans -- I've gotta even this crap out somehow because it's getting really old.  Hopefully the 'normal' me will come back for awhile.

On the body front, I can actually pull off both looks pretty darn well but I have to admit, it doesn't really help.  It's all mental

[mimpi]

"If, in your core you were to know you are a woman and are making do with the middle, then that is bad I'd say, and would only provide unhappiness eventually."


It is and it does, Appreciate your honesty PP. Sometimes life is well f-ck-d up. I'm soft butch as well which makes it even worse.

[Taka]

i understand a little of what you're talking about, sevan. i probably unconsciously got to the compromise of taking on an androgyne identity a few years ago, without even knowing that's what it's called, and that it is a valid gender identity. but i'd still have worries about my body being too feminine, or the cleft in my chin being too unfeminine, and i envy any manga character who switches between male and female bodies for silly reasons because of a curse or something

since i haven't really done much to express my male side, it's right now fighting for its life, so that's the side i notice the most. but i've a feeling that the reason i still haven't contacted anyone who may help me sort things out is because the female side doesn't agree with the male side about possibly transitioning, and the androgyne which i am most of the time doesn't really care all that much about how the body looks. at least i've managed to come to an agreement with myself about what kind of hairstyle i should go for, and that i have to find places other than just online for my male side to come out once in a while

some days it really sucks that i can't have both a nice and muscular male body and feminine curves. and i wish i wasn't so unhappy about not having a male body that i can't stand it when i'm complimented on my well-shaped female body (which i'm actually proud of..)

[martinb]

i wish i wasn't so unhappy about not having a male body that i can't stand it when i'm complimented on my well-shaped female body (which i'm actually proud of..)

Don`t be unhappy!You have a beautiful body and you`re right to be proud of it!I`m male born but my female self predominates(well it would would`nt it!)so you`d think i`d long for a beautiful feminine body,but no,i don`t.But i like to make the best of myself i can,i run, go to the gym and stuff,but being in a male body does`nt matter to me at all.I look on my body as simply a vehicle to move me through my life.I do crossdress in sexy clothes to express my femininity when i want to though,and i`m going to have a little work done to my face to make me look better when i do dress,but thats all.But that`s just me,maybe i`m just fortunate to feel this way.x.