bidding y'all adieu

[Karynm8621]

Anyone who had the courage of their convictions wouldn't slope of to another anonymous forum(only the chosen few are given the name of this new forum, so if you don't know the web address then you aren't one of the chosen few anointed by the matriarchs of the transsexual/transgender movement and can rot here as far as they are concerned.)

Oh please that's rediculous. If you're not happy here and decide to go to another forum it has zero to do with lack of courage. One of the posts that got deleted yesterday annoyed me. Someone asks questions and we try to help and when she doesn't get what she wants she throws a tantrum demanding the thread be locked. She did that more than once.

When I came here a few months ago it was to gain some insight to the stuff I was dealing with as an early postop. I was more than happy to help and answer some questions to help people behind me but what I see is the same thing I saw in support groups. It's always the poor me's. why we cant move forwards etc ...I couldn't attend support group because quite honestly it was a negative cesspool. If someone ASKS for help and then proceeds to tell you they cant when they get their answer, they never wanted help to begin with, they only wanted the avenue to complain. Sorry  but we can only be victims if we allow ourselves to be victims

that's only one of many frustrations here.

I was afraid of coming out, I was afraid of what I had to lose, I was afraid of going out in public and yes I was afraid of the surgery. But I knew in order to be at peace within myself I needed to make those steps. I never complained about having to save $18k for my surgery. I never complained that I was being treated unfairly. I never demanded to be treated special because I couldn't attain my goals.

I see what people like Val and Ann have to offer. While I dont always agree with them I agree that they have a right to feel the way they do and share their experiences as they have exprerienced it. And if someone doesn't agree with it then they have the right to move on and not read it. But to squash their opinions because you dont agree with them is wrong. So now they are gone and I will stand in solidarity with my post op sisters and go where I feel welcome. Wanna know why we go stealth? Wanna know why pot op women stop being a part of the trans community? It's because of stuff like you've seen here recently ....

good luck to all of ya ..I'm done now too

[GorJess]

I realize many did not agree with the sentiments of Ann and Val, for better or worse. While the general overview they had was not especially common, it is one I happen to agree with- and I'll leave it at just that. No need to violate the TOS.

Thanks for all your contributions, Ann- you've given me hope for my future, in my future (her current) profession. Your wit and intelligence truly was an asset to the forum, and will be truly be missed, by at least me. While we only chatted once, your advice proved very helpful to me- and I hope we can talk again soon elsewhere; you have touched my life for the better.

Farewell, and good luck in your future endeavors (except against me in court!  )

~Jessica

[Sarah Louise]

I'm sorry to see you leave too, Karynm, I had hoped we could get past this and start rebuilding the community.

I think your post was good and needs to be heard and understood.

[Princess of Hearts]

I think that we need a broad spectrum of members here at Susan's who are prepared to share their differing views amicably, but when you get a group who seem to want to lord it over other groups well....   I am not against the opinions of certain members here.  I just would like them to understand that just because they are further down the road than most they shouldn't get to openly state what a transsexual is or isn't.   These members are entitle to respect and understanding but when they get together and decide to flounce off to destinations unknown because people here won't or can't agree with everything they believe in then that is when I lose compassion for these members.

P.S. Just remember that age doesn't always bring wisdom nor experience valuable insight.   

I say let these people go to their new spiritual home it won't be long before they are trying the more ->-bleeped-<- than thou attitude with each other and we see the deserters slowly drift back here.

[Princess of Hearts]

I have seen this happen at another non TS forum where a group left in a huff and not long after they were back asking to be re-admitted to the fold as if nothing had happened.  Some of them were astonished that they were not allowed to return to the status of moderator!

[Karynm8621]

I think that we need a broad spectrum of members here at Susan's who are prepared to share their differing views amicably, but when you get a group who seem to want to lord it over other groups well....   I am not against the opinions of certain members here.  I just would like them to understand that just because they are further down the road than most they shouldn't get to openly state what a transsexual is or isn't. 

Seems to me that your own standards contradict themselves. In one breath you state you want a wide spectrum of opinion and you aren't against those opinions but then you state they shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions. Seems kind of hypocritical if ya ask me.

What you're really saying is that you want a group here that only agrees with your opinion and if you dont you're welcome here but you aren;t welcome to express that.

[Princess of Hearts]

Certain individuals here strongly implied that if people didn't think exactly as they did regarding transsexuality then perhaps those dissenting individuals might be not be female after all. *  What I strongly objected to was the implied accusation that if you don't think like me then you are just a ->-bleeped-<- wannabe after all I am post op now and that speaks for itself what I say transsexuality is IS the true definition.   
Post ops are welcome here and they of course can express themselves but when they start smacking people down...


* I also didn't like their highly dismissive opinions regarding ->-bleeped-<-s.

[Dinky_Di]

Seems to me that your own standards contradict themselves. In one breath you state you want a wide spectrum of opinion and you aren't against those opinions but then you state they shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions. Seems kind of hypocritical if ya ask me.

What you're really saying is that you want a group here that only agrees with your opinion and if you dont you're welcome here but you aren;t welcome to express that.

Exactly how I read the post Karyn.  This type hypocrisy is part of the reason everyone has left or is leaving.  Questions are asked, replies given, then offense taken because it's not what the poster wants to hear so they ask for the thread to be locked.  Why bother asking the question and wasting everyones time answering if your not open to replies that may contradict what you want to hear.

[Karynm8621]

Again, you're guilty of exactly what you are complaining about. They aren't conforming to your expectations and you dont like it. It makes you just as elitist as what you complain about. It's like saying its a free country unless you are gay lesbian bi or trans, then we all have to fight for inclusion. Just because YOU dont like the opinions of some doesn't mean their beliefs aren't welcome. But again, they would be welcomed as long as the agree with your system of belief

What if I felt that I was no longer transsexual because I finished my transition? Would that be considered elitist and offensive to you? Would you think that I'm looking down on you because I dont subscribe to the TG umbrella?

->-bleeped-<-s are a different thing altogether and while they somewhat deal with the same thing they aren't the same as transsexuals they are at different ends of the spectrum.

[Karynm8621]

And by the way, Cisgender people view the binary in the same manner. I cannot count how many times i've heard them say that they wont view you as female unless you have surgery. In their eyes if you have a penis you do not belong in the womens locker room. Others will say that by not completing surgery that those people want the best of both worlds.

I get for some there are issues that prevent them from having surgery. My heart truly goes out to them. But please don't dilute all the hard work I did to be who I am today because I HAD to treat my incongruency with surgery and yes when you say what you're saying that's exactly what your doing, you're negating all my hard work to make myself right by making it sound like all I had to do was take a trip to the DMV and get a gemder marker change to be a woman .

[JessicaH]

I think that we need a broad spectrum of members here at Susan's who are prepared to share their differing views amicably, but when you get a group who seem to want to lord it over other groups well....   I am not against the opinions of certain members here.  I just would like them to understand that just because they are further down the road than most they shouldn't get to openly state what a transsexual is or isn't.   These members are entitle to respect and understanding but when they get together and decide to flounce off to destinations unknown because people here won't or can't agree with everything they believe in then that is when I lose compassion for these members.

P.S. Just remember that age doesn't always bring wisdom nor experience valuable insight.   

I say let these people go to their new spiritual home it won't be long before they are trying the more ->-bleeped-<- than thou attitude with each other and we see the deserters slowly drift back here.

Why won't you let this go? It really has you wound up. It's views like that that turn open and honest discussion into open conflict and it is totally unnecessary. If you don't like someone elses view or opinion.... SO WHAT!!!  We aren't writing international trans policy here. Most of what happens here doesn't matter to anyone in any way It's a place to share information and ask for some help and maybe a shoulder to cry on. 

If you disagree with someone, clearly state why you disagree and preferably offer a different viewpoint or solution. Ann was one of the most brilliant persons on this board and I honestly HATE to see her leave. Age doesn't always equate to wisdom.  But...when you see large numbers of those with vastly more experience headed a different direction than the fledgelings, it may be wise to figure out why. Not react, but really wonder why!

Good bye Ann, I will really interacting with you here....

[Renate]

Oh dear, do I really want to mix myself in all this?

... you're negating all my hard work to make myself right by making it sound like all I had to do was take a trip to the DMV and get a gemder marker change to be a woman.

Yes, that is my belief, however the bit with the DMV is optional.

I believe anybody that universally, consistently and emphatically declares themselves to be a women is one.

That bit about "negating all your hard work" sounds like heterosexual people not wanting same-sex marriage because it will invalidate their marriages.

[Suzy]

Ann, You have contributed so much to this forum.  Thank you for sharing of yourself.

You have been a joy to get to know, I only hope we can stay in touch.

I will be joining you soon in moving on.

Hugs!
Kristi

[HelenW]

If a person has a concern or issue with something that is going on anywhere on this site please take it to a moderator or an administrator so it can be dealt with quietly and efficiently.  Moderators are the only people who enforce the TOS on this site.  Please don;t try to take this task upon yourselves.  Public conflict over personal concerns does not further the mission of this site which is, if I may, to support ALL people who violate social gender norms.

This thread is getting very close to being locked because of the personal acrimony it has generated.  Please, everyone, remember that kindness and tolerance is expected here.

I hope this warning is sufficient.

[Princess of Hearts]

I feel that because I am not attracted to men nor for several personal reasons am I enthralled with surgery.  I feel looked down upon here yet I remain here and try and put my views across.

[Karynm8621]

If a person has a concern or issue with something that is going on anywhere on this site please take it to a moderator or an administrator so it can be dealt with quietly and efficiently.  Moderators are the only people who enforce the TOS on this site.  Please don;t try to take this task upon yourselves.  Public conflict over personal concerns does not further the mission of this site which is, if I may, to support ALL people who violate social gender norms.

This thread is getting very close to being locked because of the personal acrimony it has generated.  Please, everyone, remember that kindness and tolerance is expected here.

I hope this warning is sufficient.

No worries it's my last post on this board... see ya

[Annah]

Sad to see when people have a difference of opinion, they leave.

Both sides of the fence has made some valid and worthwhile points, but Ill be completely honest here: leaving like this in a group exodus of post ops seems a rather "immature."  Sorry if that offends but it is how I see it. And other trans in my area asks me why I never attend Support Groups or Southern Comfort. Many of the posts here is the MAIN reason why. To see it on a forum is crazy enough. I have no desire to see it happen around me. I have other things to worry about.

Ill be post op soon and Ill still be hanging around. Even though my opinions may differ greatly from others, I know what makes a site great is the diversity that each one brings to the table. I will always believe that trans can be non op or whatever. Labels do not define us, we define ourselves. As soon as people stop pointing the label tag around and dictate to other people over the internet if they are "real or not" i think much of the storm will be calmer. 

I do see each side's perspectives. I really do.

Some Post ops feel that they have the experience enough to voice their opinions or from life experience and it's valid.

Some Pre Ops or non ops feel like they are being "judged" because they do not fit the pegs of what some of the post ops would use to define a transsexual. And that's valid too.

I think if we can just understand and acknowledge there are differences here and be civil about it, things would be a nicer.

I will still be very happy to be part of this diverse family.

love u all. And Ann i wish you all the happiness whatever you decide to do. Blessings!

[FairyGirl]

Some of the posts in this thread are immature, that much I can agree with, and I'm not talking about the post-ops leaving either.

for the record, I'm not going anywhere.  I fully intend to stick around and annoy the hell out of all of you for a long time to come. 

[HelenW]

I have removed posts that were off topic.  Please stay on topic and remember that you can all make the same point with kindness as you can with animosity.

[Just Shelly]

* I also didn't like their highly dismissive opinions regarding ->-bleeped-<-s.

OPINIONS!

That is what they are! My opinion of the President I'm sure is different then most, my opinion of mexican food is different then most.

When I first came here I was fairly new too forums, I stated my opinion with my second or third post. Apparently I was bashing someone or something. I have a hard time articulating my words at times so the meanings might be different to someone else. I found it interesting that I was warned about bashing when I never was the one that started it.

I have an opinion about ->-bleeped-<-s its not a good one so I'll leave it to myself. I feel somewhat hypocritical with my opinion as I considered my self this for years. This was before I reached further into myself and realized if I want to correct my gender because of a fetish I think I have gone too far. This isn't the case since I am not a ->-bleeped-<-.

I have opinions about post ops or gg's thinking a preop is not a woman because of the plumbing. I feel this isn't right but only because I am not able to have surgery at this time. I am very binary and have a hard time viewing another prop as 100% woman because of what I still have my self. I just don't think its fair to jam it down my thought, I think many post ops have to remember what it felt like having that thing they didn't want. Did it make them feel less of a woman, yes I'm sure it does me. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't be viewed as anything less then a woman.

We all have opinions for example my opinion of myself early on in a post was that I was not a gay man, I have heard others say they are not gay they like men. We all have opinions of ourselves and sometimes others. For pete's sake thier opinions not commandments or statutes!!

I also left this site for awhile but didn't feel a need to post a thread about it!

Shelly