Inability to deal with men

[mimpi]

This isn't good and frankly shameful but I have, and always have had major problems with men. I'm scared of them, don't interact with them unless it's absolutely necessary and the only two male friends I've ever had were also the only two men I have ever been involved with sexually. (All my other relationships have been with women)

Not sure why it is, maybe growing up surrounded by women, maybe GID, maybe the bullying at school, maybe attempts to molest me, maybe threats from male family members...

Just can't talk with them and become very self conscious and often react aggressively in my language. I find Gay men particularly difficult to deal with and as part of an LGBT organisation have had some very bad run ins with them, rage boils up inside me.

It's something that's giving me big problems in life as I can't cope with male doctors, male counsellors, male gender therapists and so on. Try as I might I lose it with them and turn nasty, bitchy and aggressive.

However all the FTM's I've met or read here seem like nice guys. Is that me projecting or is there something in that?

Does anyone else have these problems and how does one get over them?

[Tamaki]

I don't know if this is helpful but I have difficulty dealing with guys too. I deal with them on a daily basis and if everyone gets along well I do okay but if there's any conflict I always overreact. I realized the other day that I'm dealing with these guys as a female would. Even though I'm playing the guy part my true nature comes through.

I've had the experience with the ftm's I've met, they seem like great guys.

[Annah]

It is an interesting question, and at the same time, a very difficult question in which the answer will be uniquely different for everyone.

I think our past experiences does have a great impact on how we relate to people socially. For example, a child who witness abuses from a police officer against his family may have future animosity against all police officers even tho the vast majority of police officers are professional and fair.

The only suggestion I can give you is to see a female counselor to work out these issues in your life because it is tragic for you to continue with your life with these understandings of men because there are many wonderful men out there and to void yourself of these people can have you miss out on various things in your life.

The number one thing to keep in mind is, this isn't your fault. Everyone has fears and it does not mean those fears make it your fault. But to continue on with those fears you can do yourself a great disservice. I am not saying to be sexually involved but developing relationships with men can be healthy and fun as well as mentally prosperous.

I am not counselor but you should bring up how comfortable you are with FTM but not cis gendered males. Your counselor may make an observation (may) that you feel comfortable with FTM because subconsciously you see them as having the vestiges of female and not fully male so you feel comfortable in this regard. Now of course you would not actively think this but deep down you may be feeling this way without knowing it.

I had a thing against religious people. For me, I conquered this fear and "hatred" by immersing myself professionally in religion. By going to Seminary and by formally being educated by religion.

I began to discover that I had preconceived ideas about religion and many of those thoughts were wrong. There are so many religious people who embrace LGBT including Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, Earth Religions, etc etc. I had concentrated only on the negative spotlight of religious bigotry that I was blinded by the real representatives of these faiths who are large in number.

In the Commentary, The Global Bible Commentary edited by Daniel Patte, Gandhi read The book of Matthew and began to see Christians in their day to day musings. Gandhi stated "I had once believed that Christians walked around with Brandy in one hand and the Bible in another with world domination in mind."  Throughout Gandhi's commentary he constantly stated how he was humbled and laid to bare over his pre conceived ideas about Christianity by those who actually followed it.

I know this isn't about religion but the same principles would apply to any other struggles we go through.

I do hope you can find a way to conquer your fears and learn to enjoy men's company without the feeling of dread or defensiveness!!

[grrl1nside]

I cannot say much. They usually don't make me angry unless we are talking type A, macho type then I could spit daggers... Usually when I deal with men, I just feel sad because I start responding in autopilot. Saying the usual things in the male style (but much softer more feminine) because I'm not full-time. It is like playing a role that is just not enjoyable to play any longer. Usually, I try to disengage and feel really sad after like it is all such a waste.

Do you find that you respond to all males the same or just males with particular styles challenging? Regardless, I can appreciate how upsetting this would feel. I wouldn't want to feed my aggressive side because it is a side of me that makes my GID go into overdrive... Yet, I know in the right time and place sometimes it is appropriate too... I don't know, it certainly is a challenge to sort out all the conflicting things on this.

[mimpi]

Thanks for the replies, most interesting.

Yes as to reacting to authority, absolutely. Authority has always given me a hard time and beatings when young.

As regards religion I see where you are coming from Annah. Not very religious myself and religious hypocritical sexist men infuriate me, Gay Muslim men drive me mental when they are transphobic towards me. Worst experience was having my chest grabbed in a mosque and being outed by an idiot. (I'm Muslim btw)

As regards the FTM's it's possible that I'm projecting and seeing what's not there. Just prefer them in my limited experience.

Tried to talk this through with counsellors but have had little luck and the only two male ones who were ever nice to me about it caused me big problems. I got a crush on them and left.

Perhaps it's denying my sexuality but am fairly sure it's not as I've tried it with guys and although it was exciting they were rubbish in bed. I do have romantic dreams about guys occasionally but in real life it has always been women and it's never been me who started the relationships.

Just find women beautiful, they dress nice, smell nice, are great to talk to and are better lovers in personal experience. All my friends are women bar one old male friend in another country.

Have to rush to pick someone up at train station, will be back. Sorry for any typos

[spacial]

I would like to offer you some suggestions, ideally, some sage advice.

Sadly, all I can say is, I feel the same and you, probably for the same reasons.

But if you figure out a solution, can you pass it on to me?

In the meantime, I've spent my life learning how to survive alone. It tends to incite reactions from looser to pathetic. But in reality, it's a choice and one which I'm not unhappy with.

[mimpi]

Thanks, Spacial, no worries.

Annah speaks a great deal of sense in what she wrote. Tried the religious bit but it came to a grinding halt that day someone outed me in the mosque. Haven't set foot in a mosque for 19 years since and there's no way I can. Some Muslims believe we shouldn't be allowed to pray with either men or women and that touching us breaks a Muslim's state of Wudu (cleanliness for prayer). That's really hard to accept. How dare they judge what is for God alone to judge.

I do still pray although very erratically apart from during Ramadan but even that messes with my head as I feel bad about praying as a man and bad about praying as a woman. My solution is to do it with a hoodie. Praying that is, before anyone gets the wrong idea...

What really gets me is as my daily contact is with women, my relationships have been with women and I houseshare with a woman, I'm never conscious of my gender until I have to talk to a man. Then it feels bad, like everything stripped away and my gender being exposed. Men know, they suss one immediately even if one tries to do correct hand gestures (I gesticulate a lot) and sit and stand and talk properly as men do. How can they do this, they don't suss Gay men, nor give them the hard time they give me. That last bit really annoys me in it's unfairness. It feels like abuse, like being made naked and the more I try to cover it up the more my failings and nerves become apparent to them.

I'm sure they aren't all bad, my lawyer who is a Pakistani Muslim man had a disastrous marriage and broke down in front of me. I did my very best to be be kind, supportive and urge him to get therapy which in the community many frown upon. Anyway he took my advice, is much better and took me out to lunch as a thank you. He's very sweet, very naive and I really appreciate his acceptance and understanding of something he had never previously encountered. But that's in a one on one situation, not behaviour he could permit himself in front of his friends or family. That hurts. It's probably not the individuals, it's society that stops them from being decent. The male persona is a very fragile entity a counsellor once told me.

Sorry for the rant and the self loathing, you all.

[Felix]

I'm FTM and men scare the hell out of me. This has made transitioning hard. I've been beaten, mugged, and raped at different times in my life, and I'm so often on guard that I often forget that I don't even look like a girl anymore and I'm not really a target.

Yet I don't honestly have a lot of female friends who aren't lesbians. So I don't know what to say, except that struggling with relating to a particular gender is common, and worth trying to overcome.

[mimpi]

I'm FTM and men scare the hell out of me. This has made transitioning hard. I've been beaten, mugged, and raped at different times in my life, and I'm so often on guard that I often forget that I don't even look like a girl anymore and I'm not really a target.

Yet I don't honestly have a lot of female friends who aren't lesbians. So I don't know what to say, except that struggling with relating to a particular gender is common, and worth trying to overcome.

With one exception all my friends are lesbians and in some ways that just makes things even worse as one is even less prepared for what's out there.

[Lily]

Hehe me too. All my friends are lesbians or transwomen. I don't think it was intentional on my part, every one of them approached me first to be my friend. I <3 all of them

I don't dislike or fear any group, there are just some groups I simply don't understand or have much common ground with.

[Amaranth]

I have the same feeling sometimes, though not to that degree.  I don't approach any individual man with prejudice, and it's probably just because of the area I live around, but my experience has been mostly bad.  I've never been severely bullied, but the majority of men I've spent time with embody nearly every negative stereotype of that gender. 

What the worst influence probably was is that I had the choice to pursue male friends or no friends at all.  Girls around here seem to be uncomfortable with having a guy as a close friend, and I learned through trial and error that guys don't want to be friends with a...[derogatory name for effeminate men].  I hope that perception changes in time.  I still have trouble with being emotionally open to any man though.

[mimpi]

Don't think it's the neighbourhood here, Amaranth, as although it's got a major reputation for shootings etc it's not that unfriendly. Out in the provinces is far worse in the UK if one is different. Have to say the worst hatred I've experienced is from Gay men although that may be caused by most that I know having a very different cultural and ethnic background from myself. I'm a minority within a minority within a minority (european trans muslim) and you can probably add one more to that I wasn't that aware of until I came to this site (non binary)...

Talking about this must have helped in some way though as last night I dreamed of a man in that way and was really into it. Sometimes I think it's denial but it can't be as I've tried and it wasn't for me. There was sex and nothing else, nothing to talk about, to do together, lack of non sexual affection and awkward silences and boredom from both sides. And those were men that I was madly in love with. Then again does that mean anything, most straight women have major issues with men hence the common statement "all men are b*******".

It's just easier with women, but that's not right.

[blake]

mimpi, I'm getting that the difficulties with men stem from their insensitivity towards you - whether manifested as aggression or non-sexual indifference. Perhaps FTMs are easier to relate to because they too were once on the receiving end of male insensitivity? Generalisation, but there could be truth in that.

As for men in romantic relationships, you may have had bad luck so far. When I was younger, men treated me awfully - I was of purely functional value. All that changed with my current (hetero) boyfriend. On the other side of the coin, one of my friends is gay, and he is also incredibly sensitive. Just a few days ago he was telling me how he would never have sex until they "got to that stage" in their relationship - despite the pressure from our college friends. Great cismen are out there, and it surprises me how lovely they can be. 

[mimpi]

I'm sure there are great men out there but what can I talk to them about? There's no conversation, it's so bad that even my interest in football is only shared with my closest friend who is lesbian. They can't and won't talk to me and it's always been like that, the straight guys are distant and and freaked out and gay men despise me. Makes me very sad as probably I should be with one as I can do all they want, the perfect loving, caring wife type, apart from the occasional complaining and bad attitude! Their loss not mine is probably the best way to think about it although it's bothering me more all the time recently.

[Felix]

I feel very lucky to live in a major city. As long as I don't go too far out from the center of town, people are mostly pretty accepting.

Being accepted and being able to relate are two different things, though. I've learned that when I'm passing and relating to guys as peers, I still can't keep up with the macho posturing. Some of that is socialization, but I'm willing to bet cismen sometimes hate it too.

[RhinoP]

I don't really like putting up with anyone unless I'm sexually attracted to them (which is a very rare person), I'm scared crapless of most interactions with people, either that, or I find people to be really nasty, annoying, completely unrelateable, or whatever.

[tekla]

I'm scared crapless of most interactions with people, either that, or I find people to be really nasty, annoying, completely unrelateable, or whatever.

And you think that the movie industry is for you?  Really?  Come on, it's all about people dealing with people, most of whom are not only really nasty, annoying, completely unrelateable, but they pretty much are proud of it, and work on it.

[V M]

I deal with a bit of social anxiety, but I notice that with few exception, most men are nice and treat me like a lady... I've had good and bad experiences with gay men

[Keaira]

I cant deal with them too well either. There are a lot who intimidate me and I think that comes from my childhood where, as I was very short and quite often seen as gay, I would often find myself being bullied. But, there are exceptions to that too. I have 5 loyal and caring male friends that I love to be around. Unfortunately, the majority of them live in the UK. and 2 of them I consider family.

[Nero]

Re: Inability to deal with men

I had the same issues with women. But transitioning changed that. I love being around women now, even just for friendship.

EDIT: Of course, I'm not suggesting anyone transition to get over their issues with a certain gender. Just that it happened that way for me. I think my issues stemmed at least in part from women interacting with me as the wrong sex.