Facebook now trivialises rape !

[AbracaDebra]

It seems that Facebook has now reached the depths of the sick.
It is now allowing a page joking about rape to stay for reasons of 'freedom of expression'.
Next, will it allow pages where peodophiles can have a good laugh because of 'freedom of expression' ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/15130624
BBC - Newsbeat - Facebook 'rape' page to stay despite charity criticism
Facebook is condemned by victim support charities for not removing a page which they say trivialises and jokes about rape...

For Gods sake is there no civility or morality left in circles of power? 

[Dane]

Honestly, compared to other pages on Facebook, that's not that bad. I don't think constantly tip toeing around, trying to stay politically correct is necessarily a good thing. If people banned that page, they'd have to censor so many other similar things, then you'd have people taking it a step further and so on and so forth.

Rape is obviously a serious thing, and it is not at all in good taste to make jokes about it. But if every joke on the internet about something that is serious and terrible was taken down, we'd see a lot of the internet gone. People are always going to make jokes about things like that, and deleting one page among thousands on Facebook isn't going to do much. Just block the page, and pretend that people with a poor taste in humor don't exist.

Because it isn't the page itself, but all the people who think the page is funny who are really bringing it forth to media attention. And we can't very well delete them from the internet too.

That's my two sense.

[Annah]

I can see Facebook's side on this story.

Yes, Rape is horrible and it is something that I personally will not ever joke about but Facebook is incorporated in the United States where freedom of expression is enforced.

I personally do not like it but I equate it when people joke about things I do not like. It happens. And under the freedom of expression that can allow it.

Think about what would happen if we weren't covered under the Freedom of Expression? We would also lose LGBT pages, Religious Pages, etc etc because if it offends someone they can remove it.

It comes with having the blessing to have the freedom to express yourself as long as it is not illegal. And while I do not like people joking about rape, it is not illegal to joke about it.

Plus, facebook has so many benefits and advantages that has made my life so much easier that i will not simply throw away this site because of this thing that offends me. I've seen offensive religious pages offend me too. Im not just gonna throw away the baby with the bathwater.

Facebook has helped me reconnect with old friends, reconnect with lost family members, traveled to Italy to spend two weeks with a side of family I never knew existed, landed jobs, etc. I take the bad with the good.

Facebook is like any other social encounter; be it cyber or real face to face social agendas. You'll have the good and you'll have the bad and you'll have the ugly. It's up to each of us to parse it out and make it work.

[AbracaDebra]

Ok I hear what you are saying in that it is not illegal to joke about rape, but this is one hell of a bad subject to joke about. There is such a thing as civility and humanity.

If joking about all stuff is ok, then is it right to joke about rape and sexual abuse of children and general peodophiliar itself, just because we want freedom? 

[Annah]

Ok I hear what you are saying in that it is not illegal to joke about rape, but this is one hell of a bad subject to joke about. There is such a thing as civility and humanity.

If joking about all stuff is ok, then is it right to joke about rape and sexual abuse of children and general peodophiliar itself, just because we want freedom? 

You got to take the bad with the ugly. It is up to each individual person to make the decision if they make the decision to take part in certain topics or not.

If people start taking down pages because of this, then what would stop fundamentalist religions to pull our pages down because they site us as immoral by going against their specific codes of what a family or a relationship is suppose to be?

It is tragic that people joke about it but I chose not to follow that page. Similarly, I chose not to follow a comedian if they say things that "I" would consider offensive but I would never boycott.

Being raised in a fundamentalist church, I seen people boycott everything they disagreed with so, for me, it felt like their way of just complaining a lot. They had to make their decisions public and try to get others to join...which in its very essence, is also freedom of speech and expression.

I just chose what to follow and what not to follow. There's over 40 million users on Facebook. You are bound to get some questionable pages. I focus on the good pages.

[Dane]

Ok I hear what you are saying in that it is not illegal to joke about rape, but this is one hell of a bad subject to joke about. There is such a thing as civility and humanity.

If joking about all stuff is ok, then is it right to joke about rape and sexual abuse of children and general peodophiliar itself, just because we want freedom? 

No one said joking about everything was okay. I'm sure there's are people joking about molestation as I type this. Can I stop them? No. You're saying that because people might joke about pedophilia (which seems to be your go to route for finding something that is universally thought badly of) that we should not be able to joke about rape either. Then, people might say "No joking about domestic violence, because it's serious". It's just go on and on.

Joking about rape, in my opinion, is pretty >-bleeped-<ed up. But the human race is not a hivemind, and we all can have different viewpoints. If someone wants to use a rape situation in a humorous way, that's their deal. Sure, there is such a thing as civility and humanity. But the fact of the matter is, not everyone has those.

Just ignore them. As for condemning the entire site, well that just seems to be taking a step far, to me.

[AbracaDebra]

Well

I am sorry but I just can't go along with the approach that we should just turn a blind eye to such horrible stuff and say to ourselves that it's ok because I choose not to look at it.  There is nothing wrong with some sensorship.  It happens all over the world and usually for the good of mankind.  I am not saying kill FB because of it.  I know FB is a saviour for many people, but I am saying some things should be sensored.

Rather than continue this, we have made our points and we differ, and I think it's best left there.

Debbie.

[Annah]

Well

I am sorry but I just can't go along with the approach that we should just turn a blind eye to such horrible stuff and say to ourselves that it's ok because I choose not to look at it.  There is nothing wrong with some sensorship.  It happens all over the world and usually for the good of mankind.  I am not saying kill FB because of it.  I know FB is a saviour for many people, but I am saying some things should be sensored.

Rather than continue this, we have made our points and we differ, and I think it's best left there.

Debbie.

Then I encourage you to take up that banner and go with your consciousness. That's the beautiful thing about Freedom of Speech and Expression; you have the right to protest it.

[Amazon D]

Well maybe with that group the law will be able to find perps or stop rape.

[JessicaH]

The wonderful thing about giving whackos the freedom of speech is it makes them easy to identify. Suppress them and they go underground and you wont have a clue as to who they are or what they are doing.

[Annah]

The wonderful thing about giving whackos the freedom of speech is it makes them easy to identify. Suppress them and they go underground and you wont have a clue as to who they are or what they are doing.

Exactly. Westboro Baptist is a prime example.

[Dane]

I think this is relevant for the situation.

[Queen Erika]

I personally don't really appreciate humor that is at the expense of other people whether it's racist or sexist or homophobic or rape culture or whatever. I don't know what causes people to find rape appealing or funny, just like I don't know what makes pedophiles the way that they are, so I'm not going to say these people should be stopped. I figure they'd need some sort of outlet. But on a site like Facebook, where tons of people can merge together under a "like" page, the line between "Ignorant kid who's just joking around" and "Creepy rapist who camps outside schools and has a secret photo lab in his basement" blurs. Rape is a serious issue and shouldn't be joked about, period. I believe anything that can really scar someone emotionally should not be trivialized, because that makes a lot of people complacent with the issue as opposed to trying to improve the situation.

Freedom of speech exists, but some people are just wrong, and I know that a lot of people will think I'm just as wrong for saying that. There will always be human rights to fight for as long as there is imbalance in society where we can see eachother as stronger/weaker, richer/poorer. But with the way everything is structured, and just the way humanity seems to work, you get enough people into one place and really stupid things start happening. It doesn't surprise me that people joke about rape on Facebook. And if it's going to stay popular, they'll always have to leave room for people to joke about sensitive issues.

This has started the clock for when I finally delete my account... I dunno when, but it's just madness and I'm getting sick of it.

[Annah]

it happens everywhere. Not just facebook. You either cope with it, join in it, or fight against it.

I think joking about rape is not funny either but I can't go and tell them not too. They are entitled to that right. It happens everywhere.

If we start to limit freedom of speech based on people being offended then we will be in way more trouble than just being offended at rape jokes.

[Queen Erika]

it happens everywhere. Not just facebook. You either cope with it, join in it, or fight against it.

I think joking about rape is not funny either but I can't go and tell them not too. They are entitled to that right. It happens everywhere.

If we start to limit freedom of speech based on people being offended then we will be in way more trouble than just being offended at rape jokes.

Yeah, I just see it as people entitled to ignorant opinions, and they'll wallow in their own idiocy until they become more conscious of their actions. I'd prefer to educate people and respectfully tell them that what they're doing hurts a lot of people, and if they continue with their ignorant speech out of spite then someone should have a right to shut them down. Because there's a line between saying something hurtful and not realizing it, and just being an >-bleeped-<. And again, with the amount of people in these Facebook groups, it's hard to actually shut people down like that, so you've gotta know when to walk away from the situation and realize it's outta control.

There's also a difference between being offended on someone's behalf and being emotionally triggered. I'm offended by rape jokes. But if a rape victim were to hear a rape joke, I imagine the emotional impact would be much worse. And they don't deserve that pain, and they should be able to use Facebook just like the rest of us without having to worry about being triggered by that sort of thing. The same situation could happen with someone making a transphobic joke page. Then I would be triggered, I would hate going on Facebook out of fear of witnessing that again, I would lose touch with many of my cisgendered friends, miss out on events (some of which are at our local LGBT centre, which definitely boost my morale), and everything would just suck. I could talk to the people who made the page and tell them that they need to take it down, but if their attitude, much like the general population's would be, "It's free speech, if you don't like it, don't look at it", then Facebook is basically protecting something that is literally harming people. I don't want to have to constantly tweak the security on my news feed just to chat with my friends without seeing pages made in offensively poor taste.

[tekla]

I am sorry but I just can't go along with the approach that we should just turn a blind eye to such horrible stuff and say to ourselves that it's ok because I choose not to look at it.
Like, oh say, all the people who would disagree - and rather strongly at that, with lots and lots of religious, biological and social arguments to support them - with absolutely everything about this site?

There is nothing wrong with some sensorship.
Like, oh say, with sites like this one?

It happens all over the world and usually for the good of mankind.
It's usually done to protect abusive power from criticism, particularly when the power has no way to logically or rationally defend itself.  The basic notion itself is a loathsome stench in the nostrils of free men and free women everywhere.

I am not saying kill FB because of it.  I know FB is a saviour for many people, but I am saying some things should be sensored.
I always get the full outpouring of fake outrage whenever I point it out, but belief that censorship makes things better is pretty much the province of the illiterate.  And, exactly like the last time this issue came up, I can't help but point out that you misspelled what you are calling for.  And not just a little typo, (misspelling 'savior' was a little typo) you missed the word by a country mile, calling instead for mechanical devices that transmit signals to control devices to be attached to some things.  It really makes it hard for any thinking person to take you seriously.  Even worse, you made a big point the other day on the other FB post about working in a high school, I can only hope it's in the cafeteria and not in anything involving teaching or learning.

[Annah]

Yeah, I just see it as people entitled to ignorant opinions, and they'll wallow in their own idiocy until they become more conscious of their actions. I'd prefer to educate people and respectfully tell them that what they're doing hurts a lot of people, and if they continue with their ignorant speech out of spite then someone should have a right to shut them down.

No one has the right to shut anyone down if their actions does not constitute an illegal action. Your argument is just but it is very flawed. Let me explain:

A fundamentalist Religious person is elected as President. The House Majority are all Conservatives. Based on their philosophies and belief system we (as LGBT people) are a trite and sin against God. Based on your arguments, they will prefer to educate us and respectfully tell us that what we are doing hurts a lot of people. If we continue to be "Queer" then someone should have the right to shut us down.

Gets scary when you limit censorship and put conditions on it.

Because there's a line between saying something hurtful and not realizing it, and just being an >-bleeped-<. And again, with the amount of people in these Facebook groups, it's hard to actually shut people down like that, so you've gotta know when to walk away from the situation and realize it's outta control.

If it's out of control then that is purely based on your beliefs and convictions. What can be "out of control" for you may not be "out of control" for others.

There's also a difference between being offended on someone's behalf and being emotionally triggered. I'm offended by rape jokes. But if a rape victim were to hear a rape joke, I imagine the emotional impact would be much worse. And they don't deserve that pain, and they should be able to use Facebook just like the rest of us without having to worry about being triggered by that sort of thing. The same situation could happen with someone making a transphobic joke page. Then I would be triggered, I would hate going on Facebook out of fear of witnessing that again, I would lose touch with many of my cisgendered friends, miss out on events (some of which are at our local LGBT centre, which definitely boost my morale), and everything would just suck.

You have the right to simply not visit the page that is offensive. That is your right and no one can make you or force you to visit that page. If you fear going to Facebook because you will physically click on the page that is offensive and then it messes you up and puts your life in a bind then you need reflect on why you have the need to actually visit the page that is offensive just to get offended.

I was raped my first year of college. I know what a rape victim goes through. Trust me. But you wont see me clicking on pages that makes fun of rape. Good Lord, why would I do that?

While I do not agree that joking about rape is funny, I still hold to the truths and freedoms of free speech. It is tragic what happened to me but if I start to press on limiting the rights of those who offends me, then where would we draw the line? Under whose moral authority shall we look to in determining who has the freedom to speak what is on their mind who cannot?

When you start to draw up limitations of free speech based upon offensiveness and trauma, then we will no longer have freedom and everything this country has stood for will fall to pieces.

You say they should limit freedom based on trauma if someone goes to the page and reads it? What say you if a Conservative religious group says any form of LGBT relationships traumatzes us...including hand hold, kissing, or talking about Marriage. Would you then be privy and accepting to the fact that you can no longer talk about yourself in any public forum because someone is offended or traumatize about seeing a transsexual? Or seeing it on a page?

I could talk to the people who made the page and tell them that they need to take it down, but if their attitude, much like the general population's would be, "It's free speech, if you don't like it, don't look at it", then Facebook is basically protecting something that is literally harming people. I don't want to have to constantly tweak the security on my news feed just to chat with my friends without seeing pages made in offensively poor taste.

And they would be right. It is free speech. If you do not like it, then don't look at it. No one is forcing you to click on their link and reading their jokes.
[/quote]

[tekla]

FaceBook is private property (extremely private property, it's not even a publicly traded company), as such they have an absolute right to determine what they want and don't want.  By the same token, you're free or not to go on it, or not.

When one starts down a road paved with 'triggers' then you're in real trouble.  First of all, 'triggers' comes from the study of PTSD, and that in itself comes from war.  No doubt that war has produced a lot of PTSD, mention of war, photos of war and combat, movies of it, perhaps even a photo of a solider in uniform are triggers for some people.   So do we ban mentions of war, discussions of war, movies of war, photos of war?  (Of course it goes without saying that we're only banning the images and discussion of war - we're not going to ban war, that would be silly.)

Once you start down that road, it will be a long, long time until it ends.

And, BTW, who gets to be the Almighty Central Scrutinizer in all this?  Who gets to be the go/no-go person on what can and can not be permitted?

[fionabell]

Rape is not something that those who rule us are against. And no , nor is pedaphilia. It's the next thing to be passed as normal after beastiality.

[fionabell]

The real questionis, not, is it legal for facebook to trivialise rape, but why do they want to? It's not an image I'd want for my business. But then my business is not a monopoly like facebook seems to be so I don't have the luxury of offending large swaths of my client base like they do.

So it's not 'can they?'      It's   'why on earth are they?'


When money is no longer important because everyone goes to your networking site because everyone else is on it......

What's left? personal preference. Advocate what you want on it. Ban  what you don't want on it.

If i made a racist group on facebook or a transgender hate group it would most certainly be banned.

Yet trivialising rape is ok?

You 've got to ask yourself girls. What are they getting us used to? remember the analogy about the frog slowly boiling in the water? A lot of you are showing the signs.

Of course it's not ok for this to be on facebook. Since when was it a part of european culture to laugh at rape?

And it definatley contestable in court.