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Post GCS (SRS) 'chips on our shoulders'?

Started by AbraCadabra, October 14, 2011, 01:03:49 AM

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AbraCadabra

Hi Ladies - and dudes,
firstly, PLEASE I really do not wish this to be or become a flaming item, but simply want to share some thoughts and perceptions that may be mostly mine only... well,  may be not all of them, we shall see.

It had started off before my going to have GCS (Genital Corrective Surgery - my now preferred term if I be excused? :-).
It buzzed around the issue how much "leadership claim" we post-ops aught show, claim or even demand? When dealing with our new folks here, and of course the old, and apparently never to be really settled issue of pre- and non-op folks' position, reasons and feelings.

I really do not want to open up this again here, but at the time of the dispute still raging - I mentioned I'd report back my feeling on the issue, once I return from GCS (SRS/GRS).

So here goes...

Firstly, I do NOT now, after GCS, feel any of this leadership notions, at least none to date, and have come even more to the understanding how MUCH it is such a personal decision for each person in each case about what is right for them. THIS!!! does NOT detract from who they ARE!

To come out with claims not being a 'real woman' if this, that, or the other has or has not happened is just plain immature, and I currently feel even more so after my SRS.
I needed to do what I did – yet how can it ever be assumed any other person aught to feel the same? I beg you!

I also do bring this up having met a number of trans-woman at the hospital and we of course would speak to each other - about our transition - not just the breakfast options at the cafeteria :-)

So there I was told for example (self now age 65) that I am a *baby* --- because my SRS was just 3 weeks past... oh hello?!?
Having a 3 week old neo-vagina now made me something new and stupid... woopsy.

Is being born with female brain-gender a non-item until years and years after SRS? All your previous life's experience worth for naught? Oh?

This in my opinion seems one pretty silly notion and it was promoted by no less then an MtF psychologist having had SRS some 20 - 25 years back.
Next I learned that Susan's Place is just a collection of TV's --- woopsy.
All not worthy even to read what we have to share... ouch!

I had mentioned how much this site had been a support for my own transition but THAT post-op "leadership" had some ideas different for sure.
Next I learned that a load of folks hold the opinion that if we had procreated (sperm donor) a child/children you could never be a real woman... OK, let me spare you the rest, I should think you got the idea.

Now this stuff is floated by 'old term SRS' folks and it made me pretty unsettled.
Maybe the whole issue gets back simply to: "what you can not feel - you can not REALLY understand" (please include me :-)

So, even having gone through the "grist mill" of gender therapy and all our fears and anxieties does not in each case guarantee a sense of balance, insight and acceptance. Not even if the candidate has SRS > 20 years back and studied psychology. So be ware and better 'pull the plug' on this kind of therapist – they at least frighten ME.
In my perception those folks are best left to their own devices - it gets to painful to hear them spreading their knowing. The opinion as it goes is: "if you can't take the heat – get out of the kitchen" i.e. jump in the lake and don't bother to surface gain, eh.

OK, girls and guy that's what I wanted to report back and that is where I stand at present and the good Lord may help me so I will not start to get these sort of elitist 'chips on my shoulders' as time goes by.

Again, I be happy if your YMMnotV too much, from where I stand at present.
Consider this as a feedback please, and not a basis for any more elitist positioning if it's at all possible.
If you have differing opinions you are welcome, but PLEASE speak it in kindness it's all I'd like to ask.

Thank you for caring to hear me,
Axelle



Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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Devlyn

Nice post, Axelle! The "transer than thou" crowd seems to miss the point that surgery didn't exist a short time ago, and you spent your whole life with what you were born with. Hugs, Tracey
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justmeinoz

Personally I don't pay much attention to f***wits, except to point out their own identity to them.

Karen.
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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Devlyn

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Korlee

I didn't even need to have srs to get the -baby- comment.  A person I used to know nailed me with that one after a year or so on hormones and it was quite annoying.  Ya, I'm new to a few things but I have lived outside this for quite awhile now...

I have not run into the transer then you peeps really like you girls have but then I keep a lil distant from the community.  However that sounds just arrogant, terrible, and self defeating.  I mean if we are arguing amongst ourselves how is everyone else going to see us?  Why would you support peeps that all hate each other? O.o  But I also do not get most of the terms used by you peeps either. .-.  The neo this, cis this, etc.  I mean... a vagina is a vagina to me. O.o
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Valeriedoeswcs

#5
Axelle,

I read your thread here with great disappointment. It caused me to create a new account to respond to you. Respond because I gave you specifically, support, information and advise more than any other post-op gave you on this site. And here I read this.

I answered all your posts leading up to your surgery with sincerity, insight, compassion. when others provided a few small words, I gave my time to you with detail. With descriptive answers to help you, ease your mind from worry and concern.

That is leadership. That is what I did. That is what I meant in our previous discussion on leadership.

If you fail to recognize me as a leader for you specifically, someone who had been there, who cheered and supported you. then how do you define a leader?

I am not a leader for the Crossdresser community, Non-op community, Androgyne community, FTM community. But a leader for the MTF Transsxual community. Those women going through surgery to correct their bodies.  I poured my heart into the MTF community here the past year and more.

I am deeply disappointed in what you wrote, coming from someone I gave my time to. Someone I thought well of.

Leadership is something that I gave you. You seemed to appreciate it at the time it was given, gauging by your followup questions and responses. I see from your post above what you really thought of me.

So i have to ask, who else here gave you sincere, real, meaningful help, besides me? You lost a friend with your above post and that is what i came back to tell you.
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Valeriedoeswcs

Quote from: justmeinoz on October 14, 2011, 06:32:23 AM
Personally I don't pay much attention to f***wits, except to point out their own identity to them.

Karen.

Karen,

I have always thought your posts were considerate and meaningful.  At the same time I'm surprised your post above wasnt moderated. I have difficulty accepting the above remark follows the TOS. You did say f***wits, really? Name calling? Seeing as how Axelle was referring to members, I have to assume your comment was directed at members also.
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Valeriedoeswcs

Quote from: Tracey on October 14, 2011, 06:12:47 AM
Nice post, Axelle! The "transer than thou" crowd seems to miss the point that surgery didn't exist a short time ago, and you spent your whole life with what you were born with. Hugs, Tracey

Hi Tracey. The point being missed is that male to female, or MTF transition, is a male to female activity. Once completed there is no trans ...no longer in transition ...no longer suffering from transsexualism ...just former trans. It isnt transer as you mentioned, but rather non-trans compared to trans. The person suffering as a transsexual with body dysphoria is cured. So, I cant accept the term transer than thou as I am no longer trans. I have a vagina. There is an exit clause, a solution, a cure for MTF's. And isnt that good news for those sufferers? That there is hope... hope for a future?

If that is found to be offensive, I do not know what to say. MTF really means Male to Female. Or are we redefining MTF? Should the site just rename the MTF forum to something generic?
  •  

SandraJane

Quote from: Valeriedoeswcs on October 14, 2011, 11:04:25 AM
Axelle,

I read your thread here with great disappointment. It caused me to create a new account to respond to you. Respond because I gave you specifically, support, information and advise more than any other post-op gave you on this site. And here I read this.

I answered all your posts leading up to your surgery with sincerity, insight, compassion. when others provided a few small words, I gave my time to you with detail. With descriptive answers to help you, ease your mind from worry and concern.

That is leadership. That is what I did. That is what I meant in our previous discussion on leadership.

If you fail to recognize me as a leader for you specifically, someone who had been there, who cheered and supported you. then how do you define a leader?

I am not a leader for the Crossdresser community, Non-op community, Androgyne community, FTM community. But a leader for the MTF Transsxual community. Those women going through surgery to correct their bodies.  I poured my heart into the MTF community here the past year and more.

I am deeply disappointed in what you wrote, coming from someone I gave my time to. Someone I thought well of.

Leadership is something that I gave you. You seemed to appreciate it at the time it was given, gauging by your followup questions and responses. I see from your post above what you really thought of me.

So i have to ask, who else here gave you sincere, real, meaningful help, besides me? You lost a friend with your above post and that is what i came back to tell you.

Valerie,

Why the "Public" announcement of disappointment to Axelle's post? Would not a PM have sufficed? And your leadership role? Sounds more like "Re-Indocrination" of mislead souls. Axelle has proven herself, in my opinion and I also believe many others would agree, to be an honest and forthright soul, not one prone to the winds of change.  Axelle doesn't have anything to apologize for, and as for you... Were you really Axelle's friend to begin with?
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Valeriedoeswcs

My post was to Axelle.

She knows the support I gave her. The heart I put into my posts for her. It was her I was supporting, not you. It was my posts that were detailed, descriptive, insightful, supportive. My time that I patiently provided to respond to her questions about surgeries and life post-op. Do I need to link them for you? You are new and may not have seen them the support I gave her across numerous threads. More than any other person on this site.

Why publicly respond? Because she chose to publicly respond to a discussion from the past, about leadership. Which is interesting since that is what I was giving her, in her time of need ...leadership. What has anyone else done here for her? Other than a generic hi, pat on the back.

That is what leadership is. Helping those go into the unknown. Just because my time here is past, does not take away from what I gave through the years here.

She knows. And that is enough.

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SandraJane

Quote from: Valeriedoeswcs on October 14, 2011, 03:54:50 PM
My post was to Axelle.

She knows the support I gave her. The heart I put into my posts for her. It was her I was supporting, not you. It was my posts that were detailed, descriptive, insightful, supportive. My time that I patiently provided to respond to her questions about surgeries and life post-op. Do I need to link them for you? You are new and may not have seen them that support I gave her. More than any other person on this site.

Why publicly respond? Because she chose to publicly respond to a discussion from the past. About leadership that I gave her, in her time of need. What has anyone else done here for her? Other than a generic hi, pat on the back.

She knows. And that is enough.

If your post was to "Axelle'", why not a PM in private? You wanted an audience.
So you were the only one  to support her? She didn't name you specifically in her posts, but you felt the need to "flog" her in "Public" for rejecting your "Leadership"? Very immature and poor "Leadership" on your part.

SJ
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Valeriedoeswcs

You must not know about the prior Leadership thread. It was in that thread that we had an open, public disagreement about leadership in the community. It was that previous thread that was the cause of my disenchantment with the current state of this site.

And yes, no one gave her the surgery support that I gave her. You would have to read through her old posts to see. I am not immature, but angry at someone I gave my time to, shared my knowledge and tried to help.

Why do you think she posted the beginning of this thread? It was to me, someone she had previously given 4 rep points to over time.
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SandraJane

Even so Val, you're being vindictive then, not supportive.

SJ
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Valeriedoeswcs

I am just reacting.

Why does she need to bring up the past, what purpose does it serve? Why not celebrate the surgery and healing?
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Sarah Louise

Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
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Sarah Louise

Lets move on folks, jabbing constantly at each other gets tiring.
Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
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Valeriedoeswcs

I'm just trying to respond to questions.

It isnt one last hurrah, Annah. I am genuinely hurt by the support I gave Axelle to read the post above.

p.s. I just tried to find old posts where I provided support and I find the majority of my posts have been deleted. Some 2500 overall, nice. I guess I was never here.
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juliemac

Actually, I read this post at 4:30am this morning and was really irritated at it. I notified Val of the post.
"Dont want to flame" but made direct comments to every one in the forum about individuals and her position. Just the subject line alone was a tease, a poke, a "nah nah ptth".

Look at it. Think :"Post GCS (SRS) 'chips on our shoulders'?"

It was uncalled for, unnessisary and just plain arrogant. Then Karen chips in with a little wiggle and "Im with you" routine.
F*&wits? Really? Wow. Really adult.

I am more of a wall flower, prefer to sit back and absorb information and if I can, help any one in need. Could be just information or just a shoulder to cry on.

But this place in the last few months, has become very uncomfortable. I have lost my temper (which I really hate doing) with some of the comments in the post op area by members here. No moderation slowed these members making comments, but when some one reacted, they were moderated.

I was, but am no longer in transition, I dont feel any disphoria at all; no bouts of depression nor anxiety. I concider myself cured. I am settled into my life and expect tomorrow to be better than today.

Axelle should be moderated here not Val.

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Miniar

Topic Locked pending further moderation.

(I would also like to point out the definition of the term "leadership" is a person who guides or directs a "group". Someone who gives advice and guidance to someone who needs it is a "friend". There's a significant difference between those two.)



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
  •  

Sarah Louise

The topic is permanently locked.  Any ancillary threads will be summarily locked with no warning.

Let it end here folks.
Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
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