Well, the lie is out

[foot_lover_jess]

The trans show on OWN a month or so back where all the MTF went from wanting women to wanting men. Personally.. men are yucky. Sorry
It also didn't help that everyone that transitioned were older than I and of course had minor changes from HRT. The one they were following was going out in this grandma styled frilly thing and was clearly just so uncomfortable. The same woman was also shown at a voice and um.. walk/sit/hold yourself helping person. She was being told to basically go against 50's standards and squeak her voice. Oh the horror!
I think that most of the shows that I've seen do more damage than good. I really wish they'd do a show on someone more um... normal. Someone from here. Someone comfortable, that transitioned well, that is happy, that struggled but got though it.
I do understand where most cis come from though. Excuse the coarseness here... A ->-bleeped-<- is a ->-bleeped-<- and they are on Srpinger.
Yea.. Well, no. Most of us are just ourselves and happy. Simple.

As for my wife... after oh... 2 hours the first night + 13 hours yesterday she's running out of anger.
There are a few points that remain and have shown though.
1. She is no longer my wife. I am now wearing her wedding rings.
2. I took the option for her to have more kids away from her. Even though she's clearly said that she does not want any more kids and asked for me to get a vascetomy.
3. I took the possibility of intercourse away because Testosterone is required for an erection.
4. Her husband is dead. Well. I actually have said this exactly to my closest friends. Chris is dead. He was an angry, miserable, people hating, cursing bastard and he is long gone. I'm here now. Happy, energetic, people loving, cheerful person.
5. She will not be married to a female. She is not a lesbian.
6. I lied to her for well over a year.
7. I disallowed the option for HRT.
8. Eventually I'll out myself in male mode at work and with my daughter.

I think that's probably the current status.
On the good side, I have not been yelled at today yet and we have talked over phone and IM.

Also, on the good side... Wow. Without all of that Testosterone... With all the hate and daggers and everything else flying at me I haven't felt a single drop of anger or resentment that he would have had and fought back against. The emotional pain has been horrible but friends here and a friend at work have been really helpful. It's been intereting realiseing how feminine that I've actually become, the way that I now handle this. Hugs, consoling, talking, crying...

Okay. I'll give an update some other time. someone needs to actually do something since she did nothing for work yesterday.

[foot_lover_jess]

I will probably get bitch-slapped for this, but what about the wife?  Doesn't she get to make decisions too?  She laid down the law, expressed what she was willing to live with, then was lied to.  Her world is crumbling.  I don't think she is "buying" some story.  She has her own beliefs.  If finances (and with a house, no savings, and 3 kids I'm sure it does) are a large component of the "marriage deal"  then I'm sure she is worried about the future.  Doesn't she have a right to that?  I'm not saying it's good or right, but it is HERS.  Just as much as we have the right to our feelings and beliefs.  Unfortunately, sometimes those two sets of beliefs just don't mesh.  I am very much in favor of all types of marriage.  If you want to be poor, be single.  I am in favor of acceptance for our kind.  It just ain't here yet for everyone, or even most of us. Unfortunately, it is usually our folks that end up as road kill on the highway of life.

P.S. I usually find your posts enlightening, Interalia, but am having trouble following your logic on how your in-laws snooping into your life caused you to curse the trans political movement.  Unless it (the political movement) caused you to take fewer protections, assuming the world really is a happy friendly place for us, and that led to your outing.

You are correct. The problem was that I started HRT a year before she put her foot down for no HRT, almost a year before I completely accepted myself and who I am.
Unfortunately she has a long list of misconceptions from anti-T papers, trans shows, and what's generally "known" about us.
I am who I was, I love her the same, I like the same things, I like cars, I like to game, all of the positive things about me are still here.
Anger, hate... T-based things are gone
Empathy, emotion, care (and physical) were added.
But the largest change is that I'm happy with myself for the first time in my life.

I've been trying to help her see that not all trans were overcompensating as males and lying about or fooling themselves about their sexuality as well as other transphobic things that she thinks from media and other places.
Of course the LGBT HATING mother doesn't help. When I say HATE, do I ever mean it. She's one that would think a kid watching Chaz dance would turn them trans too... :/
Her father is just stuck in the 60's and knows only what Fox says. Yea, so ... THAT's a great source of information right there.

[Just Kate]

I was only speaking to the fact that the wife does not believe that Jess is 1) interested in females and won't change, and 2) that Jess can only truly live part time.  Such beliefs exist because of the repeated experience of public trans-people 1) saying transition or die, and 2) changing their initial orientation once transitioned.  If the trans political community allowed for more people like me, people who are trans but do not transition, to give face time maybe there wouldn't be the all-or-nothing public perception out there like those of my in laws or Jess's wife.  The problem is, my existence damages their credibility and lends weight to the right-wingers who would be all to ready to take me as a poster child to represent all trans people when I clearly do not, so I understand why my story isn't one often told (despite that there are a very large number of us).

Concerning the lying though, truth be told I'm 100% on the wife's side in this case, but I hope her feelings do not make her blind to sympathy for Jess too.  Jess will have to do quite a bit to make up for this I'm sure and to regain her wife's trust.  Jess knows this, so no reason to beat her over the head with it.  I normally fall on the side of the SO's whose world gets turned upside down by these revelations.  Were I to transition my wife would be justified in leaving me and she ISN'T a bad person for doing so nor should she ACCEPT me.  I rocked her world, broke my vows, changed the deal - if she wanted to leave she is well within her rights to do so.

[monica93304]

Jess, let me preface this by saying that I never got married, never had kids ( I knew long ago that when I got older as in 40's now).   I'm not against any sexual preferance for anyone...

But here it goes.  You need to make yourself happy 1st and foremost because if you aren't happy, you will never be able to make your children happy in anyway regardless of your gender and/or marital status. 

Being a woman is important to YOU.  Remember that you aren't perfect and the neither is she.  I hope that she can see things your way because you aren't going back to being a male.  You look fabulous and happy as a woman. Don't lose that for anything.  You very well know that you are a woman in your heart and your soul. 

Look at the commitment you've made to your happiness.  If you go back for her, you will be so miserable that you may never have any more happiness in your life.  At that point she will have all the rights and you will have none. 

You know that this won't have any chance of ending well if you decide to give up womanhood for the rest of your life. 

Be happy.  Live your life!

Monica.

[Tammy Hope]

Don;t have time for the whole thread right now but wanted to say something so i could find my way back to it.

I had a bit of a no-win situation with my wife - knowing full well if she knew about me taking hormones she would do everything in her power to sabotage it (and the method I'm getting them is easy prey to such interference) so I told her as a general statement a couple of months back (during an argument)

"When I find a way to get hormones I WILL take them but I'm not going to tell you when or answer your question if you ask because I don't want to give you the chance to interfere."

Eventually she will find out and she will be mad but I can point back and say "I told you the truth"


She knows I'm taking Spiro, and knows why I requested that specific blood pressure medicine but since my BP is slightly high she puts up with it.

[foot_lover_jess]

Yea... I can't really say that's much better than what I did...
But, I know where your coming from.
That really sounds like a divorce waiting to happen. I know that if she had said no HRT BEFORE I started... Well, I would not have. Although, I'd be dead right now to.

[foot_lover_jess]

I thought Id give an update as of today.
Things are... eh. Not great.
There is now a simple list of problems.
1. The original problem with the new kids.
          There has been great progress on this front. (due to the positive effects of hrt)
2. The lie, there is no trust whatsoever.
          This may take the rest of my life to fix, if I can. Ive accepted this as it was my doing.
3. HRT... Including the changes, the fem look, the mental shift, everything.
          Who knows whats going to happen here. I did shift back to 100% male over the weekend. I know a lot here will see that as bad, but Im happy part time, so its not bad for me. I still know who I am, just shift my presentation. It was quite funny though... I asked her if I was still to girly and she said "Nope, I read you as compleatly male. Everything changed, the way you talk, the way you move, even the way you walk and hold yourself." I said... well, yea? I do know what I did to shift feminine, I know how to shift back. I was just out of male so long, I needed to remember.

Eh I thought it was funny the list of things that she didnt think would change between presentations.

[Butterflyhugs]

On the her whole "XY = male" rigidity bit, it sounds like you need someone (maybe your endocrinologist) to explain to her what being transgender is all about, and how it's more based on prenatal hormone levels than chromosomes. 

[Just Kate]

On the her whole "XY = male" rigidity bit, it sounds like you need someone (maybe your endocrinologist) to explain to her what being transgender is all about, and how it's more based on prenatal hormone levels than chromosomes.

While this is a comforting idea (dogma), it isn't based in reality.  Unfortunately chromosomes happen first.  They determine what hormones get produced in the body which effects the development of the fetus.

The prenatal hormone hypothesis isn't proven - there isn't even enough evidence for it to make a theory. (Hopefully) no endo will try to explain being transgendered that way.

[foot_lover_jess]

Crap... I didnt see the red new post bit and killed my last post. Oh well.

The thing is that she sees in binary as well, as Id susspect that most non trans do. IE. woman in a mans body. She asked me three male or female questions. I kniw the first was what gender do I identify with. I said neither, but she required a binary... So I went with female.

Just think of how long it takes all of us to understand what and who we are, I wouldnt expect anyone to understand quickly.

I think it really helped that I was able to shift all the way male the past two days for her though, showed her a hint of fluidity. So, shes now seen mildly feminine, effeminate, and male. She has yet to see me fully en femme though and thats fine.

[Tammy Hope]

While this is a comforting idea (dogma), it isn't based in reality.  Unfortunately chromosomes happen first.  They determine what hormones get produced in the body which effects the development of the fetus.

The prenatal hormone hypothesis isn't proven - there isn't even enough evidence for it to make a theory. (Hopefully) no endo will try to explain being transgendered that way.

A bit off topic but, IF the hormone thesis is right and IF it has some genetic component, wouldn't it have to be the mother's genes which controlled that event and not the infants?

[foot_lover_jess]

As I understand it, the fetus sends a signal to the mother what hormones are required and the mother supplies them, or at least tries to correctly. If it is this way, the fetus could have sent bad signals and gotten proportions that were not quite correct or the mother could have received poorly, or just have a hard time producing the correct hormones that were requested.

At any point. She understands that trans is created by something going wrong somewhere. If the purpose of animals is to reproduce then all lgbt are errors since we can technically reproduce but, I no longer can if I wanted to and gay cannot wice their choosen partner cannot supply the other half of the equation. (don't flame me for that, think if a lion is gay... would he reproduce)

Interestingly... one of the new kids is really into neacklaces, and less boyish clothing at only one year old. He's also more caring, hugging, and kissing.
I told my wife... at least I might have something in common with him! hehe It would be at least very interesting if he's... gay/trans/ or minimally CD...

[Annah]

I think your child may be too young to concretely show his sexuality at the age one

Be careful with that one because your wife may feel that you are patronizing her.

[inna]

Hi Baby, I am so sorry to read all about your struggle, the truth is as though you are quoting days of my life, which I have lived through not long ago.

Instead of writing an elaborate reply I will post a link to my site and diary which I have kept throughout my ordeal also I will post a link to the website I have created to explain and enlighten scientifically those who do not understand our condition and have trouble accepting biologically occurring variant on brain/body gender variation.

Hope it helps!!!

Innas site: innagurl.com  and go to my diary tab

transwoman.net    news and information on transgender factor within newest scientific research

[foot_lover_jess]

I think your child may be too young to concretely show his sexuality at the age one

Be careful with that one because your wife may feel that you are patronizing her.

Yea, she knows it's in jest because I consider the other one a jock... Everyone can just see linebacker in him

Inna. Thanks. I'll visit after all my meetings are over today

[Butterflyhugs]

While this is a comforting idea (dogma), it isn't based in reality.  Unfortunately chromosomes happen first.  They determine what hormones get produced in the body which effects the development of the fetus.

The prenatal hormone hypothesis isn't proven - there isn't even enough evidence for it to make a theory. (Hopefully) no endo will try to explain being transgendered that way.

Your own chromosomes have no bearing on what hormones or hormone-altering substances might be introduced into your mother's body before or during pregnancy, or what her own hormones and genes are telling her body to release.

Manipulating prenatal hormone levels in both insects and small mammals has been proven and well-documented many times in labs to affect sexual orientation and sexual behavior in the offspring. Obviously direct human testing would be considered unethical, but it isn't hard to connect the two regardless.

I'd also advise you to look into the effects of DES given to pregnant women in the mid 20th century. Lots of prenatal hormone altering going on there as well.

Take off your blinders; it's a nice sunny day outside.

Edit: And by the way, a theory in science (as opposed to common parlance) represents the highest point of understanding of a complex subject. Theories in science are the closest things you can get to facts when drawing from many fields of study. So to say that it's "not even a theory" in an attempt at criticism is completely erroneous.

[Catherine Sarah]

Innas site: innagurl.com  and go to my diary tab

Inna   -   Thank you; times ten to the power of a thousand.

PM following later

Love. Catherine

[Just Kate]

Your own chromosomes have no bearing on what hormones or hormone-altering substances might be introduced into your mother's body before or during pregnancy, or what her own hormones and genes are telling her body to release.

Manipulating prenatal hormone levels in both insects and small mammals has been proven and well-documented many times in labs to affect sexual orientation and sexual behavior in the offspring. Obviously direct human testing would be considered unethical, but it isn't hard to connect the two regardless.

I'd also advise you to look into the effects of DES given to pregnant women in the mid 20th century. Lots of prenatal hormone altering going on there as well.

Take off your blinders; it's a nice sunny day outside.

Edit: And by the way, a theory in science (as opposed to common parlance) represents the highest point of understanding of a complex subject. Theories in science are the closest things you can get to facts when drawing from many fields of study. So to say that it's "not even a theory" in an attempt at criticism is completely erroneous.

All we have is evidence that prenatal hormones can have effects on the fetus and have shown what some of those effects are.  Gender identity isn't one that has been shown in a lab.  It would be difficult to do granted.  My point was, (hopefully) no endo is going to espouse ideas about the origins of transsexuality with untested conjecture.  I don't accept the "hormone wash" idea of transsexuality as absolute like many do, but it is a nice idea.

I'm very versed in the scientific method, know the difference between a theory and a hypothesis, and the effects of DES.  I don't as readily accept unproven transsexual dogma though.

[Butterflyhugs]

All we have is evidence that prenatal hormones can have effects on the fetus and have shown what some of those effects are.  Gender identity isn't one that has been shown in a lab.

It has been done so far with fruit flies. Researchers were able to demonstrate how a female fly's genes could be affected to make her exhibit male courtship behavior. That's about as close to gender identity as you're going to get in bugs, but it's a start. The research being done is relatively new and thus needs more time to develop, but you can't deny at least a relation between the two, even if it's currently unclear precisely how it works.

My point was, (hopefully) no endo is going to espouse ideas about the origins of transsexuality with untested conjecture. I don't accept the "hormone wash" idea of transsexuality as absolute like many do, but it is a nice idea.

And my point was, that the wife's notion is obviously incorrect anyway, so it would be a good idea to expose her to a different viewpoint (especially one showing such promising tests).

I'm very versed in the scientific method, know the difference between a theory and a hypothesis, and the effects of DES.  I don't as readily accept unproven transsexual dogma though.

It's by no means dogma; science is a self-correcting process. Research suggests a link. To unwaveringly deny that in the face of evidence is the real dogmatic behavior.

[foot_lover_jess]

Her view is wrong, we all here know that. Trans is not binary.
BUT.
1. If I tried to force fluidity at this point, she'd shut down.
2. Think about how long it takes all of us to understand our self, and we're in the middle of it. Now, how long do you think that a cis would take that starts with the wrong idea?

I should comment that she, as do I feel it's a in utero chemical thing.

She can think binary for a while and if we end up staying together, then maybe one day as she sees me shift from masculine to feminine she'll start to understand that I am both, that it's not an either/or type thing.