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What is the point of the Occupy protests>

Started by Mahsa Tezani, October 26, 2011, 12:06:58 AM

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Mahsa Tezani

I am watching it on the news. I don't understand what they are protesting, because weed is legal here in California.

Just seems to be a lot of hobos and troublemakers...

Can anyone explain to me what OCCUPY means besides occupying public spaces?
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amanda barber

good question.
It hard to get any specific answers as to what their goals are.
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Butterflyhugs

The main goals are to protest and draw attention to:

1) how corporate and financial institutions have eroded the middle class and pushed the lowest class down even further (thus emphasizing the difference between the top 1% who control 1/3 of the wealth in America and the other 99% who are SoL)

2) how said middle and lower classes have no real voice in how things are run anymore because politicians have become puppets for those corporate and financial institutions ever since the (republican majority) supreme court ruled that caps on campaign contributions were "unconstitutional" in that they violated free speech (think of the impact of a single company donating millions of dollars to their choice candidate--lots of expectations of favors)

It's by no means a "hippie" movement. The last time I was down at Occupy Portland I met an out-of-work single mom who brought her 2 kids and a bunch of other "average Americans" frustrated with the status quo. 

I'll reserve comment on the fact that you might actually have thought it was about weed :)
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Julie Marie

It all depends on what news source you're reading or watching.  The "no point" spin has been a favorite of those who want the protests to end.  But to answer your questions, here's some help:




George Carlin The Best 3 Minutes of His Career "The American Dream"


It's about people who ...

have lost their jobs

have seen their pay decrease against the cost of living

who have had to work longer hours for the same pay

who have watched their retirement money dwindle

who have seen their retirement vanish altogether

who have watched a lifetime of savings dwindle away

who have lost their homes

now own more on their home than it's worth

who have college debt equal to a mortgage

who now have to work two jobs to make ends meet.

These are hard working people who never asked for a handout and now no longer have what they used to despite the fact they have done everything they can to make things work.  Now they are out of options.

That's what the OWS movement is REALLY about.  That and identifying WHY we got where we are today and encouraging reversing the government actions that helped get us here in the first place.  And yes, it was government intervention into the existing tax laws, investment laws, banking laws and real estate laws that helped create this.  It was working and they "fixed" it.  Now they have to undo what they did.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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gennee

George Carlin was one of a kind and right on the mark.
Be who you are.
Make a difference by being a difference.   :)

Blog: www.difecta.blogspot.com
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kyril

It has nothing (repeat nothing) to do with weed.

It's about economic justice. And that's complicated, and hard to boil down into a nice soundbite for the 5-o-clock news. The simplest formulation is that the people protesting want the American Dream to be a realistic aspiration again. They want everybody to be able to have a decent job that allows them to raise a family in a decent home with decent healthcare and put a little money away to retire at a reasonable age, and they want economic policy from the government that promotes that goal.

The current policies are not working, and people of all ages who have done everything "right" according to what they were told - kids who did well in school and went to a good college, older workers who have worked hard all their lives - are facing an uncertain and frightening future because the systems they were expecting to be in place at this point in their lives have broken down. There are 7 applicants for every job opening. Pensions are being cut. Social Security is uncertain and inadequate. Retirement savings accounts were decimated. Health care costs have exploded. Millions of people are underwater on their mortgages through no fault of their own and couldn't accept a job if they found one that required them to move. Graduating students have tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt just from doing what the adults in their lives advised them to do, and they're fighting with high school kids, out-of-work construction workers and laid-off middle-aged people for minimum-wage service sector jobs that barely cover their payments.

And meanwhile, the people who engineered the collapse are essentially untouched, their multimillion-dollar salaries and bonuses intact, thanks to government bailouts and lending practices. They're not using that money to invest in creating jobs or provide home loans or anything useful. It's shameful.


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Mahsa Tezani

Quote from: kyril on October 26, 2011, 02:17:05 PM
It has nothing (repeat nothing) to do with weed.

It's about economic justice. And that's complicated, and hard to boil down into a nice soundbite for the 5-o-clock news. The simplest formulation is that the people protesting want the American Dream to be a realistic aspiration again. They want everybody to be able to have a decent job that allows them to raise a family in a decent home with decent healthcare and put a little money away to retire at a reasonable age, and they want economic policy from the government that promotes that goal.

The current policies are not working, and people of all ages who have done everything "right" according to what they were told - kids who did well in school and went to a good college, older workers who have worked hard all their lives - are facing an uncertain and frightening future because the systems they were expecting to be in place at this point in their lives have broken down. There are 7 applicants for every job opening. Pensions are being cut. Social Security is uncertain and inadequate. Retirement savings accounts were decimated. Health care costs have exploded. Millions of people are underwater on their mortgages through no fault of their own and couldn't accept a job if they found one that required them to move. Graduating students have tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt just from doing what the adults in their lives advised them to do, and they're fighting with high school kids, out-of-work construction workers and laid-off middle-aged people for minimum-wage service sector jobs that barely cover their payments.

And meanwhile, the people who engineered the collapse are essentially untouched, their multimillion-dollar salaries and bonuses intact, thanks to government bailouts and lending practices. They're not using that money to invest in creating jobs or provide home loans or anything useful. It's shameful.

Sounds like the real world realization that you aren't entitled to s*** has came true. Meh, you voted Obama in without realizing he was a tool. I am not saying the Republicans are any better, they aren't.

Americans live an incredibly irresponsible indulgent lifestyle full of debauchery. Now they are bitching? Interesting. Bitching seems to be what we as Americans do best.
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Julie Marie

And even Alan Greenspan, the guy who helped usher in these decades of greed, admitted he was wrong.

Greenspan Destroys Deregulation in 16 Seconds
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Mahsa Tezani

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 26, 2011, 11:10:35 AM
It all depends on what news source you're reading or watching.  The "no point" spin has been a favorite of those who want the protests to end.  But to answer your questions, here's some help:




George Carlin The Best 3 Minutes of His Career "The American Dream"


It's about people who ...

have lost their jobs

have seen their pay decrease against the cost of living

who have had to work longer hours for the same pay

who have watched their retirement money dwindle

who have seen their retirement vanish altogether

who have watched a lifetime of savings dwindle away

who have lost their homes

now own more on their home than it's worth

who have college debt equal to a mortgage

who now have to work two jobs to make ends meet.

These are hard working people who never asked for a handout and now no longer have what they used to despite the fact they have done everything they can to make things work.  Now they are out of options.

That's what the OWS movement is REALLY about.  That and identifying WHY we got where we are today and encouraging reversing the government actions that helped get us here in the first place.  And yes, it was government intervention into the existing tax laws, investment laws, banking laws and real estate laws that helped create this.  It was working and they "fixed" it.  Now they have to undo what they did.

And whats the solution? Hippy socialism?

Yes, I will listen to he who has the trust fund. This seems like my generation wants to relive the summer of 69' after all, our parents gave us everything. Now we're protesting!

Hippy socialism never caught on because it's a pipe dream. If socialism worked, we'd be living in it now. But Americans think they have high taxes now? Wait til socialism comes through.
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Mahsa Tezani

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 26, 2011, 03:08:12 PM
And even Alan Greenspan, the guy who helped usher in these decades of greed, admitted he was wrong.

Greenspan Destroys Deregulation in 16 Seconds

Actually, Americans ushered in that greed. To think we as citizens are responsible for the actions of our politicians? We are. Americans have more than anyone in the world, and it's never enough. We don't even produce here, cuz we make stuff in China.

I think the Occupy protests are just another social event for those who believe they are "unique". Now is the government wrong? hell to the yeah. But there is no one solution without consider what people in middle america think. You know, the people who actually do the backbreaking work?
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tekla

Oh please with the Middle America myth.  The heavy lifting for our economy is done on the Coasts and the rest of the industrial areas.  Middle America is not exactly teaming with people either.  All that stuff is a political myth.  OWS is just  a nice, if convenient way (at least for now) of avoiding the real questions.  But if the various issues start to converge, then all bets will be off.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Mahsa Tezani

Quote from: tekla on October 26, 2011, 03:25:25 PM
Oh please with the Middle America myth.  The heavy lifting for our economy is done on the Coasts and the rest of the industrial areas.  Middle America is not exactly teaming with people either.  All that stuff is a political myth.  OWS is just  a nice, if convenient way (at least for now) of avoiding the real questions.  But if the various issues start to converge, then all bets will be off.

Hey I watched "Roseanne". I know how it is.

But seriously, I am not gonna listen to a bunch of college students protestin stuff. It's cliche...
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tekla

You should go down to one then, what you find on the ground is not exactly what is portrayed in the media.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Julie Marie

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 26, 2011, 03:12:11 PMYou know, the people who actually do the backbreaking work?

And that would be the people who are now, as you say, "bitching". 
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Mahsa Tezani

The arguments here are so typical.

A bunch of statistics without no real solution. Arguments based in emotions more than considering the complexity of reality.
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Butterflyhugs

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 26, 2011, 03:06:17 PMMeh, you voted Obama in without realizing he was a tool.

Do you honestly think Barack Obama caused this? FYI, the president doesn't know what goes on in Wall Street conference rooms, wasn't even in office when the richest people in America got amazing tax cuts in the early 2000s, and Congress has been passing the laws in this country since the Constitution was ratified a couple hundred years ago.

QuoteArguments based in emotions more than considering the complexity of reality.

You need to get a grip on reality before talking about its complexity.
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Mahsa Tezani

Quote from: Butterflyhugs on October 26, 2011, 04:07:56 PM
Do you honestly think Barack Obama caused this? FYI, the president doesn't know what goes on in Wall Street conference rooms, wasn't even in office when the richest people in America got amazing tax cuts in the early 2000s, and Congress has been passing the laws in this country since the Constitution was ratified a couple hundred years ago.

You need to get a grip on reality before talking about its complexity.

I've been to these protests. It's a convention for socialist/communists/ and anarchists.

I blame Americans, not wall street.
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tekla

Arguments based in emotions

Politics is one of the few things that Americans are emotional about.  We have no common culture, not even a common language, no national religion, just sports and politics.

Second, in the broadest sense, in line with our core values and beliefs it DOES NOT MATTER WHY OR WHAT THEY ARE PISSED ABOUT AS AMERICAN CITIZENS THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO BE THERE so long as this country is still running under the Constitution of the United States because it couldn't be plainer than this:  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.  So long as they are on public property (and in Oakland there were at City Hall, pretty public that) protesting public policy and governmental decisions they have an absolute right to be there.

It's all about America.  Wall Street is a huge part of America, as was/is the home ownership industry (banks, construction companies, real estate interests - and the biggest powers in America have always been the real estate interests, from day one, and they still hold awesome power and wealth that though seen by all, is power and wealth that is far more hidden than corporate power).  All those bank defaults on mortgages put all that real estate into the hands of the banks, taking the last five-seven years of the default craze the amount of real estate that has amassed in the banks is the largest single transfer of property since the Louisiana Purchase.  Doing this wiped out a huge segment of the middle-class - who've been having hard times since the 80s - because that house represented most of their total lifetime savings and investment.  At the same time, student were graduating to fewer and fewer jobs, in an economy that though booming on paper didn't seem to be hiring anyone to get in to it.

Now it was the very rich, and the most money soaked corporations on earth - we bailed out, the gambling industry part of capitalism, the only industrial stuff that was bailed out amount to loans to Ford and GM, that have since been paid back, the rest went to bad paper, not anything real.

The fact that the 'message and solution' seem vague is because they are.  But lots of very smart people have been saying for about 15 years now (and in some cases more) that the entire system was out of whack and about to spin out of control - and all those people out now are aware of it.  Something is seriously wrong, and I don't care if you're right or left because everyone now pretty much feels it.  And you can't begin to come up with solutions until you know the real problems, and we're just getting to the point where we can articulate those.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Julie Marie

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 26, 2011, 04:04:41 PM
The arguments here are so typical.

A bunch of statistics without no real solution. Arguments based in emotions more than considering the complexity of reality.

Okay, either you are trolling or are completely ignoring the facts.  Time to fess up.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Mahsa Tezani

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 26, 2011, 05:01:51 PM
Okay, either you are trolling or are completely ignoring the facts.  Time to fess up.

I see the facts. But I don;t see a solution
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