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Grace: a license to sin?

Started by David W. Shelton, March 03, 2007, 01:29:03 AM

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David W. Shelton

I wanted to take a minute and thank the many of you who responded to my posts, and especially for the welcome you've given me. It is my hope that I can share a few things that will be an encouragement to the many people who come through this board. My posts will indeed be from a Christian perspective, but I hope that anyone can glean a speck of truth from them, no matter their faith or belief.

We're all on a journey, and my path happens to be to follow Christ and His teachings. I invite anyone to come alongside for a few minutes, and maybe we can share with each other a nugget of truth, or even a grain of hope in a life that is far too often replete with frustration and turmoil. We'll always find some things that will make us smile, reflect, dream, and hope.

A walk of faith is never easy, to be sure. But the more of us that walk side-by-side, I think we can strengthen each other, even if we might not even speak the same "language" of faith or even agree as to the relevance of faith. We're all in this thing called life... even if it sucks sometimes!

So.. without further ado...

After my recent posts and our church's message of "we're sorry for being self-righteous, judgmental bastards," I was hit with a few irritated emails. Yes, it was expected. Quite frankly, I was hoping to get a few people riled up. After all, if we're so comfortable in our Christian recliners while we watch our Christian TV and read our Christian magazines as we send our children to Christian schools, then I question whether we're being the salt of the earth that Jesus called us to be. Clearly, we find it far easier to be salt in someone's wound than anything else.

I believe God is stirring our collective "Christian" nests, and that He is bringing us out of our complacency to reach a world that is sick of religious tripe. They've seen the big churches, the polished pews, and the fancy preachers, and they are not impressed. To be sure, Christian TV is as hokey as it is self-centered in its presentation of the Gospel: "Give money to us and God will bless you!"

In all reality, most of us are far more comfortable in crowds than in small groups. After all, we can hide in a crowd. We can be lost in the masses. We have become, as one pastor I know said, "a bunch of porcupines trying to live close to each other." We barely know our neighbors. In truth, we really don't WANT to know our neighbors. If your neighborhoods are anything like the ones in Clarksville, they'll probably move away soon, anyway.

And it is out of that nest...that comfort zone...that God is calling us. By "us," I mean those of us who are Christian. I believe that He's calling us out of our comfort zone, out of our recliners, and, in many cases, out of our religious traditions. He's calling us out of the mindset that we must follow a certain set of rules to be "Christian." After all, what's the point of Christ's fulfilling one law if we're going to just replace it with another?

In a word, He's calling us into GRACE. It's a word that instantly invokes the classic John Newton hymn, "Amazing Grace." We were indeed all once blind, and we now see... that Jesus Christ is Lord. Grace will lead us home, and grace will bring us to eternity with the Father where time is without meaning.

Strangely, grace usually goes out the window when we deal with our fellow man. Far too often, we replace grace with judgment, mercy with wrath, and love with hate. After all, some say, "grace isn't a license to sin." This is a line that is often used against those who are eventually kicked out of churches for whatever reason. Maybe a pregnant girl is kicked out because she chose to have her baby instead of an abortion. Or a divorcee is shunned because they wouldn't stay with an abusive spouse. Perhaps a gay teenager is ostracized because of who they are.

But what is grace? For this post, I'll stick to the commonly regurgitated evangelical definition: "unmerited favor." It is literally a divine overlook of all of our faults, weaknesses, and sins. He looks past all of that to give us the free gift of eternal life. It is the kind of grace that we're all quick to embrace for ourselves. Sadly, we're also quick to deny it to others, since some believe that sin shouldn't be encouraged or supported.

Dietrich Bonheoffer once coined the phrase "cheap grace." In his mind, grace could easily be abused and reduced to being nothing more than an excuse for sinful behavior. He thought that the liberty that we have in Christ should never be spat on by someone who just flat-out refuses to repent of habitual sin, which would do nothing more than "cheapen grace."

Bonheoffer understood what it was like to suffer. He understood the high price of discipleship, and was eventually killed in a Nazi death camp for his "crimes" of preaching against the evils of Hitler's regime.

There's another word that must come into this discussion of grace. There is also "love." Love is tightly woven into the cord that binds all of us into the covenant which God made for us. Neither can exist without the other. Grace without love becomes a wall of separation between people, and between men and God. Love without grace becomes a recipe for disaster, where we can cut too close to a person's soft spot, only to set off wrath.

But when grace and love are truly operating in a person's life, they create an entirely new way of life. If a person who has been given much grace, and has been given much love, then their response is both grace and love to the One who gave it in the first place. Okay, I've lost you. Let me clarify a little bit.

God has given each of us an eternal amount of grace. Through the cross of Christ, all of our sin is forgiven. It is forgotten. Since Scripture teaches that sin is as much a state of being as it is an act, His great sacrifice has revealed this eternal grace for all of us. But wait, there's more. There's His love.

Jesus said, "Greater love has no man than this, for a man to lay down his life for his friends." He also said that we are His friends if we follow his commandment: "love one another." The message that Christ gave to all of us was a simple dual commandment: Love God, love people."

Now, what would happen if we were to realize this level of love and grace that God has given to us? The cross wasn't so that we could get into heaven by the skin of our teeth. Just because our lives were steeped in sin doesn't mean that we are wretched. In fact, God was so crazy about us, loved us SO much that he gave His very best.

Jesus didn't die on that cross so that we could be saved from hell, my friends. He went to the cross because of God's passionate and complete love for all of us. And that means you, too. He valued us so greatly, loved us so completely, and desires us so passionately, that He planned to have Christ crucified from the very beginning of time!

When we start to realize this, even just a little bit, then I believe that we'll begin to take on an entirely new paradigm in our faith. We don't serve Christ because we want to get into heaven. In fact, Ephesians 2:4-6 seems to indicate that we're already there:

Quote...because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus... (Ephesians 2:4-6, NIV)

As Christians, we don't serve Christ because we want to gain His favor. We already have it. We have His completely and totally undeserved favor. We have His love. He can never love us more or less than He already does.

He's never shocked by our actions, never disappointed, and he's never surprised. Scripture says that nothing will separate us from the love of God. His love is complete, whole, and without limit. It has never changed, and it never will. Grace isn't a license to sin. It's simply a message that our sin will not stand in the way of His love.

But, you might be thinking, "You don't know what I've done! There's no way that God could love me, or forgive me."

Do you think that your sin is greater than God's love? Is that it? Or do you think His love isn't good enough for you? My dear friend, it is good enough. It's good enough for you and over six billion others just like you. We can't let a false sense of humility stand in the way of the ultimate grace: God's eternal, complete love.

I believe that God is calling us to stop looking out our own faults and look to His perfection. When we go from naval-gazing to gazing at the beauty of God Himself, suddenly, we're exposed to the clear reality that His love, His glory, and His grace surpass everything. It surpasses our sin, it surpasses our confusion, and it surpasses our own utter lack of grace and love.

Let's "fix our eyes on Jesus" as it says in Hebrews 12:2. When we do, we'll begin to be consumed by His love rather than by our own sin, or the sins of others. Instead of pointing fingers in judgment, we're lifting hands in worship. And better yet, we're encouraging each other in their walk, rather than pointing out each others' faults.

When we walk in grace, and walk in love, we begin to adopt a new way of living. I don't choose to remain faithful to my partner because of legalism. I made that choice because I love him. I made that choice because I know how much he loves me. There's great grace in that simply because we know it's not a matter of not cheating. I just couldn't imagine breaking his heart like that.

With grace, it's not the law that keeps us from sin, it's love. If we truly love God, then our desire is to show our love for Him in all ways. If we truly love Him, then we love those whom he loves. Grace then takes its full effect. Liberty then takes root. Yes, we have complete freedom in Christ. But when our hearts are so captured by grace and love, then our desire is God Himself.

When we begin to walk in this level of grace, my friends, I believe that we'll finally start to see just exactly how much He is really crazy about us. We can explore grace in every way; and we can explore the passion of God for His people.

As we enter into this Easter season, let's meditate on this powerful message of grace and love for all of His people. It is truly amazing grace, in every way imaginable.
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BeverlyAnn

Thank you David.  Wonderful words (and my favorite hymn).

QuoteStrangely, grace usually goes out the window when we deal with our fellow man. Far too often, we replace grace with judgment, mercy with wrath, and love with hate.

Never more evident that when the pastor of Lighthouse Baptist in Largo, speaking to the City Commission regarding firing of City Manager Steve (Susan) Stanton said, because she is transitioning from male to female, "If Jesus was in the room tonight, I guarantee He would would want him fired, too."

Bev
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Dryad

I have too often wandered across the type of christians that claim Jesus has saved them, they have been Forgiven, and are Forgiven each time they say they are devoted to Jesus.
So.. They sin all week, and by the end of the week, on their sunday mass, they're miraculously forgiven again.
So.. I think Jesus' Saving is a bit different in nature.

People who follow Jesus are not saved by his sacrifice. Instead, Jesus sacrificed himself so that people could be saved from sin.
Jesus knew people hated his guts for what he said. He was a heretic; he threw away much of the dogma of the time, many ideals. He knew people wanted to kill him, and still he went on with his quest; telling people of universal love, self-sacrifice, and actual values.
He could have stopped, and lived. He chose not to. Because him getting killed would make him a martyr, and people would know what he stood for. And the people who knew could be saved from committing sins, because they'd ask themselves: What of that Jesus fellar? He died for his opinions, and we all know he did what he did for the best of everyone!
So.. people would realize that, and start loving one another.
That's why Jesus saved us, even if we weren't alive when he was. Because we know who he was. At least we know what he stood for. So we've been shown a better part of life, and thát is what can save us.

Grace... I think, David, that by this, the ways of Jesus, you mean Grace. I can be wrong, of course, but tossing this out of the window makes christianity easy; just claim Jesus is your Savior, and voila; you're saved. But it doesn't work like that, now does it? You've got to live the part.
Now; I'm not a christian. As far as religions go, I think I'm pagan over anything. But Jesus still is a great example to everyone. Because he was a holy man in what he did, and what he thought. In his actions; not just in name, or title. It's his love that made him holy; not anything else.
Is being saved, then, salvation, really about making your way to heaven, after you die? Good doggy; here's your reward? Or is being saved, and salvation, really an act of placing some more bricks in the palace of the Kingdom of God that Jesus told about; not the afterlife, but a more friendly, loving, more perfect world?
I hope you can answer this, David, because allthough it might not look it, I'm quite confused by it.
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Julie Marie

David, if I had a pastor like you growing up I never would have lost interest in the church.  Thank you.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Omika

Truly wise.

David, I have always believed that to love God is to love humanity, and vice versa.  I believe that God is the heartbeat of mankind, and all things born of the heart, born of love and understanding towards our fellow man is ultimately the will of God.  Is it so heinous to believe this?  To believe that religious boundries and differences are unimportant if the universal message is one of fellowship, love, and enlightenment?

I don't believe that God cares for religious semantics.  I believe God cares about humanity, and that's all there is to it.

Those who use the scripture and "the will of God" as a pretext to further their own ends and to reinforce their own petty fears or prejudices are the truly wretched, the truly sinful.  Not only are they opposed to humanity's progress as a collective, but they are perverting the image of God while remaining completely deaf to His word.  Miserable and sad to see.

Sir, you are an enlightened Christian.  Touch as many hearts as possible.  Don't stop for anything, and fear nothing!

~ Blair
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David W. Shelton

Oh, stop it you guys. I blush easily.

Seriously, thank you. If anything I post encourages you, then I'm delighted. Again, thank you.

Quote from: Dryad on March 03, 2007, 01:25:29 PM
Grace... I think, David, that by this, the ways of Jesus, you mean Grace. I can be wrong, of course, but tossing this out of the window makes christianity easy; just claim Jesus is your Savior, and voila; you're saved. But it doesn't work like that, now does it? You've got to live the part.

Now; I'm not a christian. As far as religions go, I think I'm pagan over anything. But Jesus still is a great example to everyone. Because he was a holy man in what he did, and what he thought. In his actions; not just in name, or title. It's his love that made him holy; not anything else.

Is being saved, then, salvation, really about making your way to heaven, after you die? Good doggy; here's your reward? Or is being saved, and salvation, really an act of placing some more bricks in the palace of the Kingdom of God that Jesus told about; not the afterlife, but a more friendly, loving, more perfect world?
I hope you can answer this, David, because allthough it might not look it, I'm quite confused by it.

What a great question! I love the way you put it. Maybe I can rephrase the question this way: Does Christianity mean that I can be self-centered and get my fire insurance, or am I called to something more... to impact the world today?

One theologian said once that the "kingdom of God is the already, but not yet." In my mind, true Christianity is feverishly working to impact the world around us, to bring hope, healing, and love to those who don't have it. To a Christian, he (or she) is not working to "go to heaven." It's a certainty. Like I said in the original post, Scripture indicates that to a point, we're already "in heaven."

Those bricks in the palace of this great Kingdom are a reality, my friend. They are people. When people stand together and show the kind of selfless love that Christ called us to share, that's another brick being put into place of the Kingdom.

Seems to me that the bricks are already being put in place. It's too bad that so many within the Kingdom want to tear it down.
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Ricki

Thanks david..That was nice
I lack enough love for myself right now but would like to think i exhibit enough grace in my day to day living!
xo
Ricki
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Kate

Quote from: David W. Shelton on March 03, 2007, 01:29:03 AM
But when grace and love are truly operating in a person's life, they create an entirely new way of life. If a person who has been given much grace, and has been given much love, then their response is both grace and love to the One who gave it in the first place.

There ya go! THERE it is.

BIG hug :)

Kate
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Ricki

Side note:
I apply grace and love to my cooking always!
gotta have that, this is the secret spice you cannot buy in the store!
Ricki ;D
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Suzy

Thanks for the good words, David.  I could not agree more.

As far as grace being a license to sin, I believe it is just the opposite.  When we truly realize how much we have been forigiven, we will turn around and show that love to others.  This is why I have reason to doubt so much of what I see in Christendom today.  It has more to do with baptized selfishness than it does with Christinity is its purest form:  As you put it, love God, love people.

I am so excited to see another Boenhoffer fan on here.   Never thought I'd see the day!

I like one definition of grace that puts it this way:
God's
Reconciling
Action
Caressing
Everyone

And I agree that it is love that is our greatest motivation, not fear.  And it starts with God's initiative.
True "agape" love is, in my opinion, best defined in John 15:9

"Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love."


It is quite amazing for me to attempt to fathom the depth of the love the Father has for the Son.  It is perfect.  It is infinite.  It is completely devoid of hypocrisy.  And this is the very the same love with which Christ has loved us.  Our only response?  Turn around and abide, or live, in that deep, all-penetrating love.  That means that we show that same love to those who need to experience it.  That is what Jesus did while on earth.  Which leads me to doubt a lot of the junk out there usually paraded as Christianity.

Thanks again, David.

Kristi
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Kimberly

More of a response to the title, "Grace: a license to sin?" Absolutely NOT!

When Dryad said "You've got to live the part.", I think he is right and perhaps that is enough, but it is worth expounding upon. You have to think the part, feel the part, BE the part. That may sound hard but once you are there it really is not.

Anyway, just 'thoughts'.
Sand in the wind...
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Seshatneferw

Well, yes, kind of.

It's not that living the part is a condition for grace; rather, it's the other way 'round. Once you believe God will accept you unconditionally, you will start to extend a similar attitude towards your fellows (although in a humanly imperfect way). It's a kind of leading by example thing.

In somewhat cynical terms, you also have to. If God's going to accept anyone who comes to Him, then in order to be with Him you must be willing to be with the others He'll have. Still, it is unconditional in the sense that He'll let you in if you want in.

  Nfr
Whoopee! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but it's a long one for me.
-- Pete Conrad, Apollo XII
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cindianna_jones

I think that from purely a doctrine perspective, you receive the grace of God by accepting him.  It is freely offered, all you need do is take it in.  And you can't "take it in" by mouthing the words. For God would know your soul.

I've had a hard time dealing with the concept of "sin". I believe that the pure in heart need not worry about "sin", for this person does not deliberately commit these acts.  If so, they are not intentional.  God has no need to forgive, for the person will self rectify and resolve his/her problems.  This truly is grace. It is a natural product of love and charity. 

Cindi
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rhonda13000

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"


Romans 6:1,2.
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Hazumu

Quote from: Cindi Jones on May 28, 2007, 12:56:12 PM
I think that from purely a doctrine perspective, you receive the grace of God by accepting him.  It is freely offered, all you need do is take it in.  And you can't "take it in" by mouthing the words. For God would know your soul.

That pretty much defines the nurturing Christians.  All you have to do is really accept God.  And it matters not if your neighbor doesn't accept your God, or god in general.  It's okay...

Karen
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Suzy

Heb 12:1
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us."

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The Middle Way

My question is this:

Once there is this quality, 'grace', and one is forgiven, is it considered (you know, theologically) that the person is hence operating with a clean slate, more or less?

Say you're A. Hitler, and the deeds are done, you know how that went down, but nonetheless, the Pope has the secret word for tonight, and you're feeling it; Everything's cool, now, between you and your 'creator', your 'universe'...?

I have spoken at some length with 'one or more' persons of your faith, and what I tend to get back by way of an answer is 'No, there is Judgment, in such cases', or some sound like that.

(the devil in the details which I am pointing to is 'whither karma*'?)

Any thoughts?

tmw

(*: you can just use 'natural law', or 'actions begetting like actions', if you prefer, to sub for this term)




Quote from: Cindi Jones on May 28, 2007, 12:56:12 PM
I think that from purely a doctrine perspective, you receive the grace of God by accepting him.  It is freely offered, all you need do is take it in.  And you can't "take it in" by mouthing the words. For God would know your soul.

Ok this does figure into it, then: For God would know your soul. Does this, by grace, get to be some kind of a new soul - magic wand time, now, let's be honest - or, & this is really my thrust: is there going to be work involved.

See, it is difficult for me to get the magic bullet concept; each one of us has invested in a life, and there are pluses and minuses, more subtle than ary scorecard, and this *poof* factor - "hey, now I'm golden, grace was just the ticket!"  - seems somewhat childish to me.
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cindianna_jones

TMW... god works in mysterious ways.  ;)

Okay.. from purely a doctrinal perspective.... Christ actually physically suffered for our sins in the garden of Gethsemane prior to his crucifiction.  He was the only one who could suffer the anguish and pain for the sins of the world for he was the son of God. So to accept this vicarious gift, we need accept him and take upon us his name.  Now this isn't to say you can get the get out of free jail card.  If you don't repent and accept this gift in the true spirit it is offered, it is void.  This period he spent there is called the "atonement".  When you hear that Christ "died for our sins", that isn't quite actually correct, according to the scripture.  For anyone can die.  Christ's actual suffering for our sins preceded his death.

Now the second part of the "miracle of Christ" is the resurection.  He rose from the grave and through this miracle enabled the same for every person ever born. This gift is unconditional.  Now some Christian faiths believe that somehow his corporal state no longer exists for some reason... making me wonder just what it is exactly we are to expect from the resurrection. Anyone care to comment?

Golly gee whiz, you're turning me into a preacher!

Cindi
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rhonda13000

Quote from: Kristi on May 28, 2007, 11:08:12 PM
Heb 12:1
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us."



:)

[Smiling and nodding...]

Very good.  :)
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The Middle Way

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Quote from: Cindi Jones on May 29, 2007, 09:21:47 PM
TMW... god works in mysterious ways.  ;)

Okay.. from purely a doctrinal perspective.... Christ actually physically suffered for our sins in the garden of Gethsemane prior to his crucifiction.  He was the only one who could suffer the anguish and pain for the sins of the world for he was the son of God. So to accept this vicarious gift, we need accept him and take upon us his name.  Now this isn't to say you can get the get out of free jail card.  If you don't repent and accept this gift in the true spirit it is offered, it is void.  This period he spent there is called the "atonement".  When you hear that Christ "died for our sins", that isn't quite actually correct, according to the scripture.  For anyone can die.  Christ's actual suffering for our sins preceded his death.

Now the second part of the "miracle of Christ" is the resurection.  He rose from the grave and through this miracle enabled the same for every person ever born. This gift is unconditional.  Now some Christian faiths believe that somehow his corporal state no longer exists for some reason... making me wonder just what it is exactly we are to expect from the resurrection. Anyone care to comment?

Golly gee whiz, you're turning me into a preacher!


First of all, ye is a borned preacher and ye knows it...

"this isn't to say you can get the get out of free jail card.  If you don't repent and accept this gift in the true spirit it is offered, it is void. "

I get that, only it does not answer the question. It is STILL the get out of jail free card, only, now, depends on the Mystery of The Secret Word For Tonite.

Same problemo, doctoro:
Whither karma.

tmw

&, just for the sheer heck of it:
Purely from a doctrinal perspective... Marilyn Monroe's actual suffering for our sins preceded her death.
Are we having redemption yet, Zippy?
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