Let's start some controversy.

[grrl1nside]

I don't have an answer but I think that there are probably so many answers as to why this happens so much. The fighting, bickering, and heightened sensitivities.

In part, it may be because so many issues touch on our own (possibly fragile) identities. Transition and the desire for a strong sense of self when it seems so much is in question that may lead people to overreact or feel a greater sense of threat than is always necessary. I don't know... I know it can certainly get tiring and draining to see and read when we often need a push forward and support.

I was on a develepmental psychologists website who is trans that was talking about this issue and I think it might be insightful as to why this happens so much on these sites... Hopefully, it isn't a problem to post the link...

http://www.genderpsychology.org/gender_queer/external_validation.html

Wishing you all well... And, I don't think this needs to be controversial at all...

[veritatemfurto]

Well said Samantha. It is unfortunate that these very things are continuing to push away new members that are coming on here looking for a safe haven only to end up in more controversy. Alot of us have self-esteem/ environmental/societal issues that they came on here to get away from, and not all of us are able to survive such mental hardships.

The LAST thing our own community needs to be doing is CONTRIBUTING to our own populous having the most suicides of ANY community. That is still happening right now with someone I know.

That's why I'm reviving this thread, especially after recent events on here from earlier this week.

[Steffi]

You said "Let's start some controversy."

You don't need to post a contentious issue.
Even just posting "What's your favourite colour?" will do it :-

Some one will post to say blue and another to say pink.
Then someone will say that blue is a colour associated with males and someone else will point out that it hasn't always been that way.
Someone will say that pink is very stereotypical for girls and someone else will say that there should be no traditions about colour and they have a RIGHT to wear whatever they want!   Grrrr.....
Someone else will say that there should not even be a binary view of gender.....

Before you know it, we'll be a thousand miles from the topic and the place will be in flames   

We are our own worst enemies 

[Steffi]

Naturally curly hair is better than straight hair.

*fluffs curls*

LMAO
Sister..... that's fighting talk! 

[AbraCadabra]

You said "Let's start some controversy."

You don't need to post a contentious issue.
Even just posting "What's your favourite colour?" will do it :-

Some one will post to say blue and another to say pink.
Then someone will say that blue is a colour associated with males and someone else will point out that it hasn't always been that way.
Someone will say that pink is very stereotypical for girls and someone else will say that there should be no traditions about colour and they have a RIGHT to wear whatever they want!   Grrrr.....
Someone else will say that there should not even be a binary view of gender.....

Before you know it, we'll be a thousand miles from the topic and the place will be in flames   

We are our own worst enemies 

He, he, I just like your way(s) saying stuff, giggle...

I think a LOT, A *LOT*, is just a girl thing and a *LOT* of us are on a hormone roller-coaster with more ups and downs than a big-dipper, or?

The trick may just be to forgive and forget at times....... though it needs some training that, sure does :-)

Hugs,
Axélle
PS: Now me, I just discovered a light lemon-yellow for myself yummy – so who needs your baby blue or pink, eh?! Starting new nice controversy, hum? :-)

[V M]

Well said Samantha. It is unfortunate that these very things are continuing to push away new members that are coming on here looking for a safe haven only to end up in more controversy. Alot of us have self-esteem/ environmental/societal issues that they came on here to get away from, and not all of us are able to survive such mental hardships.

The LAST thing our own community needs to be doing is CONTRIBUTING to our own populous having the most suicides of ANY community. That is still happening right now with someone I know.

That's why I'm reviving this thread, especially after recent events on here from earlier this week.

I appreciate other's ha ha's and sometimes contribute a few ha ha's here and there as well, but did no-one else catch this?

[Tori]

The LAST thing our own community needs to be doing is CONTRIBUTING to our own populous having the most suicides of ANY community.

Good point... yet also generalized.

More suicides than ANY community? No.

But yes, a high suicide rate.

We aren't Jonestown. That too, was a community.

Support is relative. Everybody here wishes to support and be supported (that is HUMAN, communal nature). But some people's support is another's rubbish.

Every person here has (roughly) ten toes to step on. Some toes are bigger than others. 

Yeah, we should take it easy on the newbies here... but we should also go light on the supporters when they fall short. This is not a community of professionals. This is a community of individuals with an unique commonilaty.

[AbraCadabra]

I did... V M, 
but having just recently dealt with one such, and it being based on drunk self-pity with plenty of lies to boot, as was not the first time! - I have come to my present conclusion to let be, and WHAT IS – IS.

If you want to kill yourself and think that's the best thing to do - after having done some good talking - WHO IS ANYONE TO TELL YOU OR ME OTHERWISE?!

Call it though love honey, - YMMV
Axélle
PS: there be plenty more to say as always - but I'm done with this sort of "disempowerment" help-business, right now.
Plus if you really want to count some dead bodies... be my guest.
The truth shall set you free... yes?

[V M]

I did... V M, 
but having just recently dealt with one such, and it being based on drunk self-pity with plenty of lies to boot, as was not the first time! - I have come to my present conclusion to let be, and WHAT IS – IS.

If you want to kill yourself and think that's the best thing to do - after having done some good talking - WHO IS ANYONE TO TELL YOU OR ME OTHERWISE?!

Call it though love honey, - MMV
Axélle
PS: there be plenty more to say as always - but I'm done with this sort of "disempowerment" help-business, right now.
Plus if you really want to count dead some bodies... be my guest.
The truth shall set you free... yes?

Actually, I wasn't talking about myself, I'm not actually that self absorbed. I was talking about a teenager who came here for support but ended up getting attacked and bullied by some other members

[veritatemfurto]

Good point... yet also generalized.

OK, I'll rephrase:
The LAST thing any trans should be doing is CONTRIBUTING to other trans suicides- its already astronomical on its own.

[Tori]

@VM (respectfully)

I saw what happened.

I participated in the "bullying".

She came in asking questions and wouldn't respond positively to the answers she was provided.

People, being people, were often as defensive to her responses as she was to theirs.

That is human nature.

Sure, we can do better...

We can do better than play the suicide card, too.

That is rather heavy handed... no?

Especially since said teen has checked in on these forums since then. No?

Especially since the main crux of the criticism she received was this: "We can not help you, trust your therapist or seek more therapy!"

Is suggesting more therapy assisted suicide?

Perhaps I missed some jems, VM, since threads have been deleted... but really, with all due respect, the situation could have been handled better all around. To blame the regular participants of this forum, rather than the aforsaid teen or the staff?

Are we not a community?

We all share the blame... and the rewards. No?

Aloha,
Tori

*ninja edits have been made.

[Tori]

OK, I'll rephrase:
The LAST thing any trans should be doing is CONTRIBUTING to other trans suicides- its already astronomical on its own.

Better...

Anybody who intentionally contributes to a suicide here should not be here.

But suicides are by definition a solo act.

I get your point. Got it the first time too... but I still find fault in your semantics. This IS worth ironing out however and your point is indeed, noble.

[AbraCadabra]

The last thing ANYONE should CONTRIBUTE to, is to ANYONE'S suicide, trans or otherwise!

Now the question remains what you'd call "contribution" in such a case?

It takes a bit of experience to know the difference I dare say... and who in fact is blessed, to have this experience in each case?

My shrink had no issues to contribute to my suicide... so long his 'professional ass' was covered, and it was just me being "emotionally unstable".
Oh shame... this one just didn't make it... too unstable... didn't want to go on Prozac... could have told you... too bad... etc. etc.

I'm still here to tell the tale... so maybe he had a point?
Toughen up or perish. Its no cake walk to transition... and all those sweet words are in the end - just sweet words, or?
Some folks get hooked on 'sweet words', like that "friend" I mentioned in my earlier post (not you VM).
They in fact are shocked if you don't become hysterical over them talking about it – yet again. Well, all the power them.

I actually am a pretty supportive person – though not supportive of BS, and that's my call, no one else's, as to what seems BS in such a case, and what is not.

One BLUE subject, now I AM getting depressed, eish!

Let's move on
Axélle

[V M]

I'm not interested in playing the blame game, I'm just trying to help if possible. I wouldn't even bother otherwise. I am sorry if people misunderstand my motives or reasons for even trying to help others, but for some reason I do try to help

Am I wrong in believing that this is a support site?

[Tori]

Absolutely not.

Still, support is relative... and a rather general term.

If a person types a post with the INTENT of helping, they are being supportive. It is their intent.

If someone reads the post and INTERPRETS it as otherwise, is it the fault of the original poster?

We have folks from all over the world on this forum. English is the language of choice but this is a global website and ALL kinds of English are spoken here. What seems rough to some is gold to others.

It is impossible to prove the INTENT of the poster by the words of their post.

But, when the several worry about the one... it is silly to blame the several.

[Cadence Jean]

Yeah, I don't get the whole competitive thing either.  I believe in relativism - what is true for one, isn't true for another, but they're both correct.  I think the idea of support is to sort of cheer lead individuals in the direction that they choose to head with themselves(as long as they aren't hurting anyone, like in a tangible way), to ask them questions about themselves that they haven't thought to ask yet, share resources, and offer stories of personal experience when asked.  I consider telling a person that they're doing something wrong or that their opinion is wrong, especially when not asked, to be disrespectful and insulting.  Like the OP said, not a one of us is greater or lesser than another.  Despite the commonality that we share with identifying as being transgendered, we are all unique individuals with unique world views and personalities - let's celebrate that.

[Tori]

CJ,

While I agree with the OP, this dead thread was resurrected for other reasons.

With all due respect CJ, and I DUE respect you.

Cheer leading is problematic in All situations... although THIS particular (teenage) gal does need a cheerleader.

Most folks on this website want adult advice... yet, some are kids.

This particular kid, although welcome still, has been chewed through the gears.

This IS a celebration here at Susan's.

And celebrating causes disphoria in some cases, apparently...

All's I am saying is, "Don't blame the regulars when newbies play a hard hand."

It is no more the regular's fault, than the staff's.

None of us are professionals.  Or, if we are, we don't tell y'all here.

Cheerleading, though, is awesome but misleading.

Do we cheer everybody on every desire?

"I am 116 lbs and my therapist won't gives hormones 'cause I am under weight."?

Rah, Rah, Rah!

?

Cheerleading is one thing.

Blaming folks for worrying "Inappropriately" on a "Support site" is quite another.

Yeah the girl could've found her home here. She hasn't yet.

No need to blame the masses.

Aloha,
Tori

[veritatemfurto]

CJ,
While I agree with the OP, this dead thread was resurrected for other reasons.
I disagree, it was originally about people going back and forth on petty differences, making mountains out of molehills... debating the weight our words carry for each person falls within that realm.

With all due respect CJ, and I DUE respect you.
and BTW congrats to CJ...

Cheer leading is problematic in All situations... although THIS particular (teenage) gal does need a cheerleader.
maybe but it does have a use for boosting self-esteem if only temporarily. Mentoring has a longer lasting effect. And she has a Sister...

Most folks on this website want adult advice... yet, some are kids.
considering the resources that are now available online, kids can surprise us with how smart they can be, but they still don't know everything, and why
they need turn to adults.

This particular kid, although welcome still, has been chewed through the gears.
what if I came on here because I was chewed through the gears before getting to here, even before I thought I was anything but gay?

This IS a celebration here at Susan's.
celebrating? I do not understand that statement. Where's that party, again? I like parties!

And celebrating causes disphoria in some cases, apparently...
The lack of celebrating can also contribute to one's dysphoria, which varies per person...

All's I am saying is, "Don't blame the regulars when newbies play a hard hand."
the rules of conduct still apply for every user, newbie or regular.

It is no more the regular's fault, than the staff's.
I have enough sense and trust to not place any blame on this site's staff

None of us are professionals.  Or, if we are, we don't tell y'all here.
I wouldn't be surprised if a couple professionals sign on every so often... 

Cheerleading, though, is awesome but misleading.

Do we cheer everybody on every desire?
"I am 116 lbs and my therapist won't gives hormones 'cause I am under weight."?
Agree, because of the weight, and its the mother's call... I can imagine that being underweight can raise the risk of adverse effects like thrombosis, but I'm not a doctor. I had to learn the hard way (OD) not to mess with medication.

Rah, Rah, Rah!
sisk boom bah

?
??

Cheerleading is one thing.
being a mentor or playing big sister is another

Blaming folks for worrying "Inappropriately" on a "Support site" is quite another.
When is worrying inappropriate? especially for someone like me with a disability that causes me to be super-critical of myself, need reinforcement of that self-image from complete strangers, respond compulsively when I have extreme anxiety because my family is being torn apart by my "identity crisis" while my unsupportive parent keeps beating me and calling me a freak? That put me at a very high rate of taking the stupid way of solving my problems when I was that age. I may have gotten over it, but not everyone is as lucky... Is it not right to worry or recognize those same signs in others? and want to do something about it???

Yeah the girl could've found her home here. She hasn't yet.
When I signed on here in my manic anxiety feeling like im all alone state, I didn't think I had one either.

No need to blame the masses.
nor should we care then?

Aloha,
mahalo

Tori

now Tori I know your intelligent, mean well, and that you're going on what you know... but because we don't have all the facts, we can only assume where this particular kid was coming from. But unless we've been in that situation ourselves, which I have, our assumptions about the true motives and mental state of any individual fresh off the street can't be assumed to have any accuracy to it whatsoever without caring enough to investigate further... not everyone is as strong/well as the next person- be it mentally, physically, or socially.

[Amazon D]

You're right Jen. The Trans-Community is just as petty and childish as any other community. People will misunderstand, judge, compete, argue, just like any other community. I expected more from our community, assuming that we are all more-or-less enlightened; but I am so very wrong. I can't just ignore it and move along, not when it's causing pain to completely innocent people. Seeing people who are hurt makes me hurt.

I'm hurt by old transitioners (not all, not even most) being secretly jealous of young transitioners.
I'm hurt by young transitioners not heeding the advice of the more seasoned community.
I'm hurt by preop/postop people judging non-op people, saying they are less valid.
I'm hurt by people who gloat because they have it great, and by people who think they're better because they have it tough.

But I'm hurt most by the singling out of anybody. Just because a person is young doesn't make their points any less valid. Just because a person accepts their genitals doesn't mean that they're wrong or that they're the wrong type of trans.

If people are making you to feel that you're wrong for anything you feel, just remember that the one who is wrong is them. There is no right way or wrong way to be trans, and no one's problems are any more or less valid than anyone else.

If you're young or very early in transition, heed the advice of someone who has been around for a while. If you're older, don't automatically discredit the valid points of a younger/earlier transitioner. If you hate your genitals, don't say that somebody is wrong for embracing theirs.

I am so frustrated. I know that the world is like this, but I really expected more from our small community. That was naive, even the most enlightened people in the world can still be childish.

judge not least you be judged... which really means don't worry about other people.. really care for yourself and what your doing.. if you wasting time wondering what other people are thinking or doing well your just as bad as them..

come on let it go.. i wasted yrs thinking this or that about others and what did it get me but bad feeling about others and life itself...

i have become a much more spiritual forgiving human since i started to just judge myself.

everytime i think about others and what they are doing i quickly ask the spirits above to take it and have it be gone


remember we can never know what people go through and well to judge them in a negative way is actually throwing judgement back on ourselves so we can feel better about ourselves.

what is the saying .. that which you see in another is usually that which you can't see in yourself but that which you too suffer..

I made a statement that "the words i say about another, are really meant for me to hear."  Yepper don't go there anymore and you will find the love to accept others and the ability to accept yourself.. besides

UNDER OUR GENDER / IDENTIIES
         Queer   Q
                       U                      U
      transsExual   E
              Straight   S
                               T                     T
                   bIsexual   I
                                   O                      O
                        lesbiaN   N
                           INGay   ING

OUR SPIRITS LAY
WITH OUT PREJUDICE

LISTEN TO THE SPIRITS.....HUMAN LIFE IS A DREAM OF THE REAL SPIRITUL WORLD... FROM WHERE WE COME AND WHERE WE ARE GOING BACK TOO!

worry not for all things here on earth for our time here is but a short stay

[Stephe]

Most of the infighting I see is based on something I don't know if there is a solution to. People who strongly believe in the bi-gender model and people who don't.

Then again almost every community I have been involved in has this sort of divide. Like motorcycle riders, it's the harley riders vs the sport bike riders. The harley guys refuse to wave unless you're also on the same brand of bike. When I rode bicycles it was rode bike vs mountain bike. Same deal they just turn up their nose if you riding the "wrong" type. When I used to dabble in model trains it was HO scale models vs anything else. etc.

Stephe