All of you hate your female genitalia?

[Da Monkey]

The problem is some people here think their body is part of the gender. It's clearly not or trans people wouldn't exist.

I'm a woman but my body is male. When I'm dead and someone looks at my bones 200 years from now, they will NOT see female no matter how much surgery I have. I can say I have a female body, but that's not being truthful to myself. I can't say "my junk is female" nor does it become female just because I know I am a woman. It also doesn't make me less of a woman either.

I can change things so my body looks -more- feminine and I'm doing that. But I also have accepted my body will never be -female- either. Even post-op I can have what appears to be female junk but it's really not. That wouldn't stop me from one day doing this, but I AM realistic about what is going on. I think trying to delude yourself into believing your body becomes the sex of the gender you self ID as is not healthy either.

People really need to learn to accept they are trans and that it's OK to be trans.

I totally agree with you.

For me, at least, the way I look at myself is that I'm a guy but I'm not a male.

[Make_It_Good]

Um, the <not allowed>? That's kind of an inflammatory post title.

If you'd said it in spanish would it be maybe less crazy?

That seems quite random since you posted a post with the V word in the title...?  Just pointing that out. :p But I get where youre coming from here.

To me, yeah with T I do have a penis and focus on that, but the rest down there, I refuse to acknowledge. I absolutely detest it and the thought almost makes me feel sick. As strong as this may seem, I do have abit of a problem with those that "use" that part for sex. I just cant get my head around why anyone male identified, would. But, thats just me. Not to sound judgemental. Its probably just because of how I feel. I would definitely say I hate the wrong parts down there and I cant wait for my phalloplasty which should be this Summer.

Oh the relief that will be!!!!

[poptart]

Already wrote about why I'm male earlier in this thread. According to Stephe no surgery in the world can make me male, so why bother calling us "female to male" if we'really always going to be female? I disagree with the FTM label, but for other reasons.

With surgery and hormones your body won't be male to the same degree that most guys are (ex. XY chromosomes, male internal organs) but it will still have traversed from female to intersex to a variation of male. I don't like the "female to male" label either and I don't use it -- but it does describe the physical process.

However the subject of this thread isn't the body as a whole but the female genitalia, which we do have unless post-operative, or unless male hormones have given us chemically-induced intersex genitalia. My point is that the way you view your body doesn't change what it actually is.

[Sharky]

I still agree with what I wrote months ago.

My brain has always been male. My body is female. This is why I am trans. My body is not male just because my gender identity is. It's a male's body, but it's still female. Surgery can change the shape of my body to male, but every cell will always be XX and female. There is no medical procedure that can make me 100% male. Even though I will never be cis I am still transitioning from female to male in a lot of ways.

[Stephe]

Why so focused on defining other people's bodies to the point of saying things like this?

I'm not focused on it is the whole point you seemed to miss. I can promise you though society is not going to agree with this "I identify as male, thus my genitalia are male." concept.

And why do you care if your body will never be the exact same as a bio male, when that has NOTHING to do with how much of a man you are? This body nonsense is why some MTF sit around and say BS like "Until you have SRS you are not a woman" garbage. That has zero/nada/nothing to do with -gender-.

As in my example, there are many things we can't change ever, bone structure, hand size and shape etc. All are sex markers of a body type that will go with us to our graves. I will never be able to get preggers or have a period, you will never be able to get a woman preggers which pretty much describes normal bio female vs male functions. Maybe this pisses you off to hear but you can't make your body as male as a bio male's body. Just as I can't make my body just as female as a bio female's.

I CAN be just as much of a woman as any woman and can change my body closer to how I self ID. You can be just as much of a man as any man who ever lived and change your body to a certain extent as well. But if you focus on this ideal of your body is completely male when it's just not factual, you will never be happy. You're looking for the proverbial pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I feel the statement "I identify as a man, thus my body is a mans body" is very true but not "I identify as a man, thus my body is a male body". Man <> being male. They are not mutually exclusive either.

[Nygeel]

I'm not focused on it is the whole point you seemed to miss. I can promise you though society is not going to agree with this "I identify as male, thus my genitalia are male." concept.

And why do you care if your body will never be the exact same as a bio male, when that has NOTHING to do with how much of a man you are? This body nonsense is why some MTF sit around and say BS like "Until you have SRS you are not a woman" garbage. That has zero/nada/nothing to do with -gender-.

As in my example, there are many things we can't change ever, bone structure, hand size and shape etc. All are sex markers of a body type that will go with us to our graves. I will never be able to get preggers or have a period, you will never be able to get a woman preggers which pretty much describes normal bio female vs male functions. Maybe this pisses you off to hear but you can't make your body as male as a bio male's body. Just as I can't make my body just as female as a bio female's.

I CAN be just as much of a woman as any woman and can change my body closer to how I self ID. You can be just as much of a man as any man who ever lived and change your body to a certain extent as well. But if you focus on this ideal of your body is completely male when it's just not factual, you will never be happy. You're looking for the proverbial pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I feel the statement "I identify as a man, thus my body is a mans body" is very true but not "I identify as a man, thus my body is a male body". Man <> being male. They are not mutually exclusive either.

Soooo I can't identify as male? I mean...I guess I could say the difference between transsexual vs transgender (in general) is that a transsexual identifies their body as not being the same as their sex assigned at birth. You do seem pretty focused on labeling people's bodies. I am very aware of society not validating how I identify my body...just as I'm aware that society doesn't validate my gender, or choice of dress, etc.

You're also incorrect in many ways. There are people who are assigned male at birth with XX chromosomes. There are people assigned male at birth who have larger hips than shoulders. There are people assigned female at birth who cannot get pregnant, or haven't had periods.

There's always people out there that don't meet the generalizations you're making.

[ChesireBat]

I don't like it but I don't hate it either.  It is what it is.  But on the same note, I would never use my nether-bits for penetration. Completely off limits. However, I DO hate how difficult relationships become because of being out of the norm.  I hated my (now extinct) breasts though.  LOATHED THEM.  Getting rid of them and having the male-type body/characteristics were always the most important things to me.

[Stephe]

Soooo I can't identify as male? I mean...I guess I could say the difference between transsexual vs transgender (in general) is that a transsexual identifies their body as not being the same as their sex assigned at birth. You do seem pretty focused on labeling people's bodies. I am very aware of society not validating how I identify my body...just as I'm aware that society doesn't validate my gender, or choice of dress, etc.

Actually I'm not focused on this "My body is just like a bio females" at all cause why focus on something that can't be changed to be a fact. It's the same reason I don't buy into all this "I have a birth defect", I don't believe there is anything wrong with the way I am.

And I NEVER said you can't identify as a man. Man does not = you must be male. If it did I would still be a man. I don't need a "same as a bio female" body to be a woman. In my case society DOES validate my gender as a woman.  Most also KNOW I was born with a male body, I don't hide that fact from people I know. Maybe when you get to the point where people accept you as a man, you will understand this whole "My body is just like a bio male" stuff isn't important or realistic. Focusing on this doesn't help people learn to accept being trans and become at peace with themselves. I've seen too many post-op/post everything/pass 100% people who still are haunted by their gender because of this false hope/belief.

While there are men who have been assigned female at birth and women who were assigned male at birth, there are no males born with a vagina and no females born with a penis. To say otherwise is trying to make up a new definition of societies common language. And you are never going to convince society that genitals have nothing to do with what sex a person was born as, but they seem to grasp that gender isn't necessarily connected to what sex you are born as.

[Arch]

Maybe when you get to the point where people accept you as a man, you will understand this whole "My body is just like a bio male" stuff isn't important or realistic.

Did I miss something? I don't recall anyone's having said in this thread that his body is just like that of a cis male body. In any event, cis male bodies vary widely.

While there are men who have been assigned female at birth and women who were assigned male at birth, there are no males born with a vagina and no females born with a penis.

Depends on how you look at it. Some intersex people are assigned one thing or the other at birth, yet they have parts that don't fit comfortably into one category exclusively. Are you talking about how people are assigned, or how they identify, or something else?

The way I classify my body varies. I frequently think of my body as trans or intersex. I've been pretty nicely brainwashed to equate man with male and male with penis, so I constantly question my genitals, my sex, and sometimes even my gender and the sanity of my identification. But if I'd been brought up in a society that didn't automatically make the assumption that man=male=penis, I wouldn't assume it, either. Then maybe I wouldn't worry about my parts.

When I imagine that some guy is fellating me, I feel that I have a male body. Not just a man's body--I still feel that I'm more of a boy, by the way--but a male body. An atypical male body, sure. A body that the medical establishment wouldn't classify as male, I know. Definitely a body that millions of laypersons would not call male.

One thing I do know, and I know it to my core. I do not have a female body.

In a binary world, where the hell does that leave me?

I think it's both counterproductive and misleading to base "male" and "female" exclusively on genitals, especially since lots of people don't fit into those neat little categories. The male and female categories seem to be based on the false assumption that brain and body are always aligned one way or the other or that they should be. No cross-identification, no in-between, no both, no more than two, no absence, no intersex, no trans. If anything exists other than the classic categories, pandemonium ensues.

I think that the medical and societal obsession with labeling people as one or the other does a great deal of damage, especially to people who don't fit easily into the classification system.

The binary scolds me when I feel that I have a male body, my male body that is unlike any other male body. In my opinion, the binary is the problem. But we all grew up in it, and I see no easy escape. Otherwise, I would not get all hung up (excuse the pun) on my parts in the first place. And neither would anyone else.

[Nygeel]

Actually I'm not focused on this "My body is just like a bio females" at all cause why focus on something that can't be changed to be a fact. It's the same reason I don't buy into all this "I have a birth defect", I don't believe there is anything wrong with the way I am.

No, you're misunderstanding me. I'm saying you're telling other people how to identify and not identify. You're telling me what we are and what we are not. I personally don't see being trans as a birth defect, but I am male.

And I NEVER said you can't identify as a man. Man does not = you must be male. If it did I would still be a man. I don't need a "same as a bio female" body to be a woman. In my case society DOES validate my gender as a woman.  Most also KNOW I was born with a male body, I don't hide that fact from people I know. Maybe when you get to the point where people accept you as a man, you will understand this whole "My body is just like a bio male" stuff isn't important or realistic. Focusing on this doesn't help people learn to accept being trans and become at peace with themselves. I've seen too many post-op/post everything/pass 100% people who still are haunted by their gender because of this false hope/belief.

I also never said anything about identifying as a man. You keep telling me that man and male are not the same, equal or related, and I agree. However, you keep bringing up my being a man when I've never really mentioned being a man. What it comes down to it is I identify as a male so my body is male. I understand that you don't like me identifying this way but that's unfortunate that how I identify is wrong to you. This whole policing of body identities isn't cool in my book.

While there are men who have been assigned female at birth and women who were assigned male at birth, there are no males born with a vagina and no females born with a penis. To say otherwise is trying to make up a new definition of societies common language. And you are never going to convince society that genitals have nothing to do with what sex a person was born as, but they seem to grasp that gender isn't necessarily connected to what sex you are born as.

A penis is a clitoris that has grown due to hormonal conditions in the womb. With each part of the genitals, there is an equivalent from one to another. Yes, there are people with situations like you're describing as not existing. I don't really care so much about convincing society about genitals because I don't have the spoons (mental strength/ability) to do it.

It should also be said that on a legal level trans people can change their markers on their ID/license....hmmm...what do those say? Sex or gender? Male/female or man/woman?

[AJarrah]

I hate it to an extent. I pack, and that suffices for me for now. I don't want SRS for the fact that the general outcome doesn't look as natural as i'd like, so I'd rather have what I have and pack over it to ignore it. As far as I'm concerned my packer is just part of my anatomy now and I don't have to worry about what's underneath as long as I don't see it.

[poptart]

It's not about identity, Nygeel. The way you view your body or wish it could be doesn't change what it actually is. I am a realist. You can say that your body as a whole is male because you are, but not the individual parts of it which are, by definition, female. That is known as wishful thinking.

No "policing", just calling things what they are.

It should also be said that on a legal level trans people can change their markers on their ID/license....hmmm...what do those say? Sex or gender? Male/female or man/woman?

Here they say "sex" and "M/F". I don't get the point you're trying to make with this, though.

[Elijah3291]

The problem is some people here think their body is part of the gender. It's clearly not or trans people wouldn't exist.

I'm a woman but my body is male. When I'm dead and someone looks at my bones 200 years from now, they will NOT see female no matter how much surgery I have. I can say I have a female body, but that's not being truthful to myself. I can't say "my junk is female" nor does it become female just because I know I am a woman. It also doesn't make me less of a woman either.

I can change things so my body looks -more- feminine and I'm doing that. But I also have accepted my body will never be -female- either. Even post-op I can have what appears to be female junk but it's really not. That wouldn't stop me from one day doing this, but I AM realistic about what is going on. I think trying to delude yourself into believing your body becomes the sex of the gender you self ID as is not healthy either.

People really need to learn to accept they are trans and that it's OK to be trans.

It makes me a little sad, but you are 100% right IMO. I will always be biologically female, and being in denial of that isnt going to help any trans person.  If I called my junk male, then I would just be deluding myself.  I know it isnt male, but I also know that testosterone has helped make it more masculine.

I will always be "technically" female.  having a male spirit and mind doesnt make my body male.  but I will do what i can to make my body as male as it can be, to make myself feel more true to my mind.

[Darrin Scott]

It makes me a little sad, but you are 100% right IMO. I will always be biologically female, and being in denial of that isnt going to help any trans person.  If I called my junk male, then I would just be deluding myself.  I know it isnt male, but I also know that testosterone has helped make it more masculine.

I will always be "technically" female.  having a male spirit and mind doesnt make my body male.  but I will do what i can to make my body as male as it can be, to make myself feel more true to my mind.

This. I agree 100%.

[Cody Jensen]

It makes me a little sad, but you are 100% right IMO. I will always be biologically female, and being in denial of that isnt going to help any trans person.  If I called my junk male, then I would just be deluding myself.  I know it isnt male, but I also know that testosterone has helped make it more masculine.

I will always be "technically" female.  having a male spirit and mind doesnt make my body male.  but I will do what i can to make my body as male as it can be, to make myself feel more true to my mind.

I sorta find this depressing. So are you saying "there's nothing you can do about it, in the end you're 'technically' trapped in a female body forever"?

[Sharky]

I sorta find this depressing. So are you saying "there's nothing you can do about it, in the end you're 'technically' trapped in a female body forever"?

It is depressing but it's true. Surgery and harmones can change a lot. But nothing will change our sex chromosomes or that our bodies developed as female in the womb.



I don't think being delusional about it is healthy. It's better to accept reality and move on.

[King Malachite]

I sorta find this depressing. So are you saying "there's nothing you can do about it, in the end you're 'technically' trapped in a female body forever"?

I find it depressing too Cody.  It has made me sad for the last few days but it's sadly true.  My bones and chromosomes will always be female unless some operation comes 50 years down the line to rearrange my bones into male but I wouldn't want that anyway since most people aren't trying to cut my flesh open to determine if my bones are male or female but at least knowing that somewhere in the world my bones are more stronger than at least 2 cismales is really comforting.  Sad but true.

[nickm1492]

It makes me a little sad, but you are 100% right IMO. I will always be biologically female, and being in denial of that isnt going to help any trans person.  If I called my junk male, then I would just be deluding myself.  I know it isnt male, but I also know that testosterone has helped make it more masculine.

I will always be "technically" female.  having a male spirit and mind doesnt make my body male.  but I will do what i can to make my body as male as it can be, to make myself feel more true to my mind.

I know everyone is getting really sad and depressed about it but he is also saying that he can make his body as much male as he can. We can't change reality. If we did, we wouldn't be trans. We wouldn't be on this site. We would be cis males. At the end of the day, all of our experiences have shaped who we are. Is that really such a bad thing? I like the person I am. I like that I know what a woman goes through. And even though I will probably NEVER do it, I can still get pregnant and experience that but at the same time be the man that I want to be. We are unique. Yes it sucks big time that we have to get surgeries to feel closer to the person we feel like inside but at this point, being depressed about it isn't gonna do anything.

As for the issue with this whole topic. No I don't hate my dowstairs area. It sucks that I will never get to feel what it's like to have a real, full functioning penis but whatever. I can still orgasm. I can still get a dildo and at least simulate intercourse with my girl. Nothing will stop me from being the man I know I am inside. I 100% agree with Stephe. We will always be biological females/males (If you are MTF) and as hard as it can get and depressing as it can get, we are trans. But life is so much more than gender. There are so many experiences I have yet to have. I refuse to live my life depressed over something I literally cannot change. Life is beautiful and most of us are healthy and have a home and food on our tables. Seems to me like we have it good.

[caseyyy]

I think Logan's right. Maybe some parts will always fall into the "female" category, but we can do a hell of a lot to make ourselves closer to how things should have been. Some people don't transition and are happy that way, and that's good for them. And for those who do, they can go as far as they wish to align things as much as they can. Most people I know are happy post-transition, whatever that entails for them, and have very little dysphoria remaining. I honestly think that's what counts.

[Arch]

Don't you all realize how arbitrary these sex categories are? And how stupidly, dogmatically binary they are? So binary that PTBs have no clear idea how to classify an intersex baby--for years and years, ever since it's been possible, people have been so married to the idea that everyone MUST fit into a particular anatomical box that they have ordered horrifically invasive surgeries to make these babies conform.

The taxonomy DOES NOT ACCOUNT for people like that or for people like us. It DAMAGES such people and punishes them for not fitting in. Therefore, it is inherently flawed, deeply flawed--and, I submit, it is therefore an INVALID classification system.

I don't mean that it isn't used in the "real world" as a medical and legal categorization system; it clearly is. But it DOESN'T WORK. Therefore, I reject it. And if Nygeel rejects it, too, more power to him. He's not deluded; he's simply REDEFINING THE TERMS. His system seems to work very nicely for him, despite your protests that he must be a mental case. In fact, if he's doing what I think he's doing, he is using a classification system that works one hundred percent of the time for anybody who cares to use it.

Which is a helluva lot better than the ninety-seven or ninety-eight percent system that currently tyrannizes us from birth to death.