I have ->-bleeped-<-. Is 20 too late to pass *attractively*? (pics)

[Ultimus]

I'll try to write as interestingly and as succinct as possible:

My whole life, since my earliest childhood memories, I have fantasized about being a woman and wanted to wear woman's clothes. I tried forgetting about it during elementary school, but it came back full force in middle school and high school. I realized at 18 that I had a huge problem and I began seeing a psychiatrist. He determined that I had autogynophilia (->-bleeped-<-). My hope was that by working with him, we could remove these thoughts and feelings. Well it didn't work. I tried going on dates, I tried testosterone replacement therapy, I tried combat sports, but nothing worked. I've always been on over 20 different anti-depressants/anxiety/sleeping pills in the past 2 years, but none of it has helped my ->-bleeped-<-. I tried 2 other psychologists. Nothing has been able to appease me.

Here I am at 20, and the problem is not better, and if anything worse. Every time I pass female clothes, I wish I was wearing them. Instead of being able to fantasize about "hot" women like Megan Fox have having sex with them, I fantasize about being women. I don't identify as homosexual though. I have been permanently depressed for several years now, locked up in my room on the internet with no friends or activities besides school.

However, the fact remains that I am already 20 years old. I'm 5'9.5 and I have a male's body. Being passable and attractive is HUGE to me. If I'm unhappy now, I would be much more unhappy being ostracized, discriminated against, or worse. Little comments wouldn't bother me, but not being able to find a job or being a victim of a hate crime is a big deal.

Here is my happiness scale to help explain the situation:
-Happiness as an unpassable, unattractive female: 1-4 / 10
-Happiness as jdinatale now: 5-7 / 10
-Happiness as a passable woman: 7-8 / 10
-Happiness as an attractive passable woman: 10/10

Here is me:

[Joandelynn]

Get another psychiatrist, autogynophilia isn't even an official diagnosis.

And testosteron replacement therapy? It sounds like your psych is still living in the 50's. Seriously, get rid of him.

[BrokenCode]

Your story sounds familiar with mine.

Your age at 20, you will get real good results. I started at 24.5 and its been the best decision for me. I truly wished I started back at your age or even younger. But that is all of our wishes. So It's good that you posted this now and not wait and see. I would see a therapist (sex therapist possibly), who deals with transgenders and get going. The worst case is you realize you don't want to, but I doubt it because I've been where you are. The thing I suggest is don't wait and think about it, get started by seeing someone who truly deals with helping people to transition.

Hugs


Edit: BTW Here is a good source http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm

[Eve87]

Your psych probably read too much Blanchard. And any Blanchard is too much. Get a proper one first of all.

I think you'd be passable if you medically transitioned. Attractive is subjective. I thought a lot like you did when i started, and I'm happy with how I'm turning out, but I'm also realizing "passing" or being classically beautiful is not what's important.

[Lynn]

I just looked up autogynophilia because I hadn't heard of it before, and that sounds pretty absurd and you need to find a new therapist, preferably one that knows what he/she is talking about.

As far as being 20, from what I've seen it's pretty much ideal that you've started looking for alternatives now, as hormones will still have awesome effect. A lot of people here seem to be in the 20-35 range I believe, and I haven't seen many people yet that weren't passing while being a while into HRT and whatnot already. And considering the photos you posted there, I'm willing to bet on good results too, as you seem to have somewhat andro features right now, clearly slightly leaning towards the masculine right now, but a good starting point nonetheless.

[Jeneva]

First of all there is no such thing as ->-bleeped-<-.  ->-bleeped-<- is a fairly unsupportable diagnosis to try and deny the existence of lesbian transwomen.

Gender identity and sexual orientation are two separate questions.  You can still be attracted to women and be a transwoman.  I and many other poster here are.

20 is not that old at all.  Until recently you couldn't have done much before 18 anyway.  You are still young enough to see much better HRT results.  Your second picture is fairly androgynous and even cute and when HRT starts to fill in your breasts I think you'd look a lot like the baby butches around here.

Of course everyone always wants to be more attractive, but you need to decide in your heart and mind if you are a woman or a man.  Don't let the physical aspects force your decision.

[Ultimus]

Get another psychiatrist, autogynophilia isn't even an official diagnosis.

And testosteron replacement therapy? It sounds like your psych is still living in the 50's. Seriously, get rid of him.

I can't blame him, because I was the one who suggested it, and he went along with it. I thought that if I could become pumped full of testosterone and bodybuild and do boxing/wrestling/mma, it would change these feelings.

Your story sounds familiar with mine.

Your age at 20, you will get real good results. I started at 24.5 and its been the best decision for me. I truly wished I started back at your age or even younger. But that is all of our wishes. So It's good that you posted this now and not wait and see. I would see a therapist (sex therapist possibly), who deals with transgenders and get going. The worst case is you realize you don't want to, but I doubt it because I've been where you are. The thing I suggest is don't wait and think about it, get started by seeing someone who truly deals with helping people to transition.

Hugs
Edit: BTW Here is a good source http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm

Just looking at your avatar, you seem 100% female to me. But you do have big sunglasses on. How passable / attractive do you perceive yourself as without the glasses?

Your psych probably read too much Blanchard. And any Blanchard is too much. Get a proper one first of all.

I think you'd be passable if you medically transitioned. Attractive is subjective. I thought a lot like you did when i started, and I'm happy with how I'm turning out, but I'm also realizing "passing" or being classically beautiful is not what's important.

You're not the first person to tell me that Blanchard sucks. I agree with the classically beautiful comment, BUT I don't agree with the passable comment. If I stayed a man, I am certain that I would have a very successful prosperous career. If I transitioned and was not passable, many job opportunities would not exist for me. I'm in financial engineering, and I don't think Goldman Sach's is likely to hire someone who looks like a man dressed as a woman.

How old are you and what age did you start? You look very pretty in your avatar and I'm trying to compare my potential results.

[lilacwoman]

Why the shrink diagnosed you as a autogyne is probably more due to him being a closet homosexual or pantie wearer - 50% of male population? - and has a lot of internalised shame about it so naturally he would both deny you the right to happily wear the stuff he can't and also put you on a guilt trip by telling you you are AG.  AG is what drives lots of nonTS to get vaginas.

He also might have Munchausens Syndrome by Proxy.

As your feelings started well before puberty brought sex into your life you're just a typical TS so get yourself another therapist and look around your area to find some place where you can see other TS's and try the lifestyle to see if you really are happy to spend time being female.
If you find that being dressed female and socialising with other TS seems perfectly nice and natural and not some super sex kick you'll have proof that you could transition if finances and situation allow.

[pretty]

Umm, I don't know what everyone is on about, you have made it pretty clear that you do not believe you are trans and it's perfectly okay to not be trans. Really it's good to not be. If you are happy living socially as a man you should not transition. And some people do self-identify as  ->-bleeped-<-cs.

You should look into the drag queen community. No they don't all look like 50 year olds in bad wigs if they actually learn makeup and stuff. A lot of them are even a lot more passable than a full-time MTF who doesn't want to learn makeup or fashion.

[BrokenCode]

Just looking at your avatar, you seem 100% female to me. But you do have big sunglasses on. How passable / attractive do you perceive yourself as without the glasses?

Thanks, Here is a more recent without glasses. I still need a haircut. I'm thinking once I get a girl hair cut, things will look much better. lol.
There is another thread on here with many girl's before and after. I think its even called before and after. The last post wasn't that long, so it should be within the first 4 pages or so.

And regarding on how I perceive myself. Well I'm still trying to see her ( I do from time to time). The hardest part is to see the girl in the mirror, just because you have seen the guy for 20 years or so. That is one of the hardest parts. Everyone else will see a girl before you do.

[Sunnynight]

A) Find a new therapist

B) No, 20 isn't too old

C) 5'9" is not nearly too tall. I'm 6'1" and pass perfectly well.

[Eve87]

You're not the first person to tell me that Blanchard sucks. I agree with the classically beautiful comment, BUT I don't agree with the passable comment. If I stayed a man, I am certain that I would have a very successful prosperous career. If I transitioned and was not passable, many job opportunities would not exist for me. I'm in financial engineering, and I don't think Goldman Sach's is likely to hire someone who looks like a man dressed as a woman.

How old are you and what age did you start? You look very pretty in your avatar and I'm trying to compare my potential results.

I'm 24 and I've been on HRT for 8 months now. Thank you for the compliment.
What you say is all true. I try to pass for exactly those reasons - to be treated as a woman and not as a leper. Also safety. When I started I also told my psychiatrist it was very important that I end up both passable and attractive and I wouldn't do it if I couldn't achieve that. But now, full-time, if I had to choose between going back to living as a guy or a non-passing trans chick - I'd pick the latter. Guess I just got over it. Passing is a messed up concept - but the advantages are very real.

You said this:
-Happiness as an unpassable, unattractive female: 1-4 / 10
-Happiness as jdinatale now: 5-7 / 10
-Happiness as a passable woman: 7-8 / 10
-Happiness as an attractive passable woman: 10/10

I think if you score a 5-7 now, and a flawless transition into a passable woman only raises that by +2-+1 you probs don't need to transition. That's happier than a lot of people. =p
5"9' is pretty cool as a girl. I'm exactly 5"9' and people say I should model. o.O

[pixiegirl]

I'd echo what most people are saying so far... find yourself another psychiatrist.  ->-bleeped-<- is not a diagnosis, and you wouldn't hear it from any reputable psych professional, experienced in trans issues or not. I can totally understand wanting to get a good idea of how the whole thing will turn out physically to help in your decision making process, but I really can't stress enough finding someone who knows what they're about to talk to first. It'll help with all the rest.

[Ultimus]

Thanks, Here is a more recent without glasses. I still need a haircut. I'm thinking once I get a girl hair cut, things will look much better. lol.
There is another thread on here with many girl's before and after. I think its even called before and after. The last post wasn't that long, so it should be within the first 4 pages or so.

And regarding on how I perceive myself. Well I'm still trying to see her ( I do from time to time). The hardest part is to see the girl in the mirror, just because you have seen the guy for 20 years or so. That is one of the hardest parts. Everyone else will see a girl before you do.

Wow, you are really really pretty...without the glasses! You started at 24.5, but how long after you started did you take that picture?

I'm 24 and I've been on HRT for 8 months now. Thank you for the compliment.
What you say is all true. I try to pass for exactly those reasons - to be treated as a woman and not as a leper. Also safety. When I started I also told my psychiatrist it was very important that I end up both passable and attractive and I wouldn't do it if I couldn't achieve that. But now, full-time, if I had to choose between going back to living as a guy or a non-passing trans chick - I'd pick the latter. Guess I just got over it. Passing is a messed up concept - but the advantages are very real.

You said this:
-Happiness as an unpassable, unattractive female: 1-4 / 10
-Happiness as jdinatale now: 5-7 / 10
-Happiness as a passable woman: 7-8 / 10
-Happiness as an attractive passable woman: 10/10

I think if you score a 5-7 now, and a flawless transition into a passable woman only raises that by +2-+1 you probs don't need to transition. That's happier than a lot of people. =p
5"9' is pretty cool as a girl. I'm exactly 5"9' and people say I should model. o.O

I think saying 5-7 on happiness of me right now is generous and overstating how I feel, its just an arbitrary number, because I am actually a miserable person. I stay locked up in my room, I have no desire to go out and make friends. I don't have a single friend to my name and haven't had one in years. I just study, go to class, eat/sleep, repeat, and that is my life. I merely exist and pass the days/years by with trivialities. So I don't think 5-7 is an honest rating, being truthful to myself. I don't want to live like this anymore.

I don't think I was being clear. If I got results like this, I would be 10/10 happy. These I consider attractive:

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/f844b8c8ccb80671ba28192d3d3bf636.jpg
http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/ab796f172dcac679f783ca1431d16203.jpg




What I meant by "Happiness as a passable woman: 7-8 / 10" is probably skewed, I was just trying to emphasize how much I would like to be like the girls above and be pretty. I'm internally conflicted and sometimes I express myself in contradictory ways because I have so many contradictory thoughts. One moment I feel like a freak who needs more "fixing" (As evident by the Testosterone Replacement Therapy, bodybuilding, etc.) and the next moment I know this is something I want to do.

[Inanna]

When I started transition 3 years ago at the age of 20, I had similar feelings about ' ->-bleeped-<-'.  Some things have changed since then...

Here I am at 20, and the problem is not better, and if anything worse. Every time I pass female clothes, I wish I was wearing them. Instead of being able to fantasize about "hot" women like Megan Fox have having sex with them, I fantasize about being women. I don't identify as homosexual though. I have been permanently depressed for several years now, locked up in my room on the internet with no friends or activities besides school.

Based on my own experiences, I think I know what causes ' ->-bleeped-<-.  It's a mixture of these things: 

1) Having a female brain and female body image.  This includes the body that you'd want to share with your partner (no matter if they're male or female).
2) Never having a female body, and being forced to exist in a male body seemingly forever.
3) Social separation from girls, and being forced into a male role amidst real males.   
4) The resulting mystique of a girl's life and a girl's body.  Further, you're pressured to get close to girls, but only in a sexual way.  Now desires blur.
5a) Male hormones increasing sex drive, and *maybe* affecting your orientation in some way.  5b) Being deprived of female hormones (which a female brain normally has).

Transition changes 2, 3, 4 to various extents, and completely changes 5.  When I was at your stage, I would have said I only liked girls... and now I'm mostly interested in guys, though I can still appreciate the female form.  Weird huh?  You see, as my body became very female from HRT, and as people began seeing me as a girl including other girls, suddenly all the pressure was gone.  I just relaxed into myself.

From your photo I think you would be an attractive woman, especially at your age.

[Ultimus]

When I started transition 3 years ago at the age of 20, I had similar feelings about ' ->-bleeped-<-'.  Some things have changed since then...

Based on my own experiences, I think I know what causes ' ->-bleeped-<-.  It's a mixture of these things: 

1) Having a female brain and female body image.  This includes the body that you'd want to share with your partner (no matter if they're male or female).
2) Never having a female body, and being forced to exist in a male body seemingly forever.
3) Social separation from girls, and being forced into a male role amidst real males.   
4) The resulting mystique of a girl's life and a girl's body.  Further, you're pressured to get close to girls, but only in a sexual way.  Now desires blur.
5a) Male hormones increasing sex drive, and *maybe* affecting your orientation in some way.  5b) Being deprived of female hormones (which a female brain normally has).

Transition changes 2, 3, 4 to various extents, and completely changes 5.  When I was at your stage, I would have said I only liked girls... and now I'm mostly interested in guys, though I can still appreciate the female form.  Weird huh?  You see, as my body became very female from HRT, and as people began seeing me as a girl including other girls, suddenly all the pressure was gone.  I just relaxed into myself.

From your photo I think you would be an attractive woman, especially at your age.

So you started at 20 as well? Were you satisfied with your results? How passable/attractive do you perceive yourself as?

Response to 1-5
1) Have always wanted a female body
2) Yes I have this feeling.
3) I'm not sure what you mean here, but I have always tried to fit in with guys to no avail.
4) True for me.
5) I can't verify if those are true.

I was hoping I would get as good results as my biological twin sister. Here is me and her in this picture. I look in the mirror alot and "see" the girl, like I think I would get results.

[A_Dresden_Doll]

Honestly. I really understand where you are coming from. I have legitimacy issues. I think other trans women are trans women, but I'm just some dude in a dress. It has taken me a long time to realize how inaccurate the feeling is. I urge you to seek out an actual gender therapist.

I also could not agree with what Jeneva had to say anymore. It's hard to deal with wanting your body to coincide with your body, especially if you are a trans woman, and being a lesbian. It's a complete mind->-bleeped-<- and a half. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! If you need anything, let me know. My therapist is excellent, and he does skype. If you can't find anyone in your area to help deal with this person demons, contact me, and I can give you his info.

Also, I just wanted to say that you can, and would, pass just fine. Really, transitioning anywhere in your 20s is fairly young. I can only hope we can reach a point where we consider a late transitioner to be someone who is 25. I'm 6'2 and over 200lbs. Look at my pictures. I pass just fine, and I daresay, I think I am actually becoming pretty. You have so much hope for your future if you decide to do this.

[Julie Marie]

You can add me to the list of people here who believe you need a new therapist.  I'll just ditto them.  ->-bleeped-<-?  WOW! 

Your dysphoria seems pretty intense.  I'm not sure if that's because you are repressing your desires or you are just totally miserable being a guy.  But the good news is 20 is still prime for transitioning well.  Once you find a good therapist and if the two of you agree transitioning is right for you, I'd say you will do pretty well.  It's pretty amazing what HRT can do.

Until you find a good therapist, do a lot of reading and ask a lot of questions.  But ultimately, you need to be the one to determine if transitioning is right for you.  Don't let anyone tell you anything and simply accept it as gospel.

[Just Shelly]

Umm, I don't know what everyone is on about, you have made it pretty clear that you do not believe you are trans and it's perfectly okay to not be trans. Really it's good to not be. If you are happy living socially as a man you should not transition. And some people do self-identify as  ->-bleeped-<-cs.

You should look into the drag queen community. No they don't all look like 50 year olds in bad wigs if they actually learn makeup and stuff. A lot of them are even a lot more passable than a full-time MTF who doesn't want to learn makeup or fashion.

I have no idea how you got to this with what the OP originally posted!!

Drag Queen!

This young person is exhibiting classic signs  of a transsexual (although I like the word Transgendered) but we won't go there! Drag queen is something totally different.

As far as not thinking your trans or maybe not wanting to be. That's me I hate being trans but thats what I am too most I am an average woman to my family and associates I am trans nothing I can do about it. I was where you were at 17 years of age. I knew something was up at 9. At 16 I was presenting as a girl many times. At 25 I was minutes away from meeting someone to start possible HRT (this is before internet) I decided to suppress it tried to be the guy again, got married, had children (thank GOD) then at 39 wife decided to leave almost died from depression, was constantly CD'n in which I hated but loved?? at 41 I decided I had to confront that I am a transsexual.

Three years later my children have all excepted me, I have officially changed all legal documents to match my name and gender, I am chemically castrated, I have blended into society as just another woman, I swim, go to the gym, involved in my childrens school and am out at work for the most part (different situation here) I still have a ways to go but 3 years ago I never would of thought I could do this. I have very low self esteem, introverted and associate with hardly anyone. If I can do this trust me, anyone can. It has taken me awhile but for the first time in my life I think I may be able to be happy. I may never get to 100% but who really does?

Your young your comparing passable (blending) with attractiveness's. Most 16 year olds do not look like Selena Gomez (hope I got that right) most 20 year olds do not look like Kim Kardashian, Most 30 year olds don't look like (can't think of one LOL,most  NO! 40 year olds don't look like Cindy Crawford  you get the point. You have to like yourself before you see whats in the mirror. Passing is all that matters when first accepting yourself, after awhile it will still be important but their are way too many other aspects of being a woman that take up more time.

As far as  ->-bleeped-<-, any trans person that gets horny would be classified as this! Don't get hung up on that crap!

Shelly

[Mahsa Tezani]

I have no idea how you got to this with what the OP originally posted!!

Drag Queen!

This young person is exhibiting classic signs  of a transsexual (although I like the word Transgendered) but we won't go there! Drag queen is something totally different.

Drag queens friggin rock.

LOL...I've met some drag queens who look better than most TS or GGs. The techniques DQ's use can be translated into "femmeaflauge" for most transsexual women.

Thats right, let's not pretend that society doesn't consider us men in drag if we have anything remotely "male" about us. I am a part time DQ and I love it...I am also a TG performer/dancer for a few clubs in SF. Part of acknowledging yourself as trans will be knowing some can tell, some can't tell...some don't care. But the people who hate us, see us as pathetic men in dresses.