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What if you’re just a closeted gay in deep denial ?

Started by Anatta, December 07, 2011, 12:55:25 AM

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Anatta

Kia Ora folks,

::) I would like to point out that there are some of us who are at peace with ourselves and the world and with this peace comes a deep concern for the well being/fare of others, especially those who have yet to find inner peace ...

::) In order to obtain this 'lasting' peace, one has to stripe bare the contents of ones mind and rebuild it in a more positive way...Being honest with oneself is one of the hardest things to do because 'Old habits die hard !'....

::) I might not live your life but it does not stop me from having genuine concern for your well being...

::) I mean no disrespect with my posts, however some will for whatever reason 'always' find fault, that is, feel a little 'uncomfortable' with what I write and express this, some times in the form of a personal attack[be it indirect] and this is to be expected...I go with the flow....

::) If a person is truly in control of their life/mind, they would not be affected by what others write, they might think a little deeper about what's been said, but the other person's words should not dictate their mood...However if they do, then this would be an indication they are easily lead and sadly life for these people will be a continual roller coaster of conflicting emotions with other people pulling their strings...

::)   Are you sure you know who you are ? What if you are just a closeted gay in deep denial ?

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Anatta

Quote from: Jen61 on December 08, 2011, 08:18:10 AM
Intersting replays and opinions. I have my views which are colored by my professional activities. As such I could not see what the connection between my gender identity and my sexual orientation are (or were). The few times that the issue was brought by counselors, physicians, or other concerned individuals, my standard postion was: "Oh, I am not confused or unhappy about my sexual orientation; and what ever it is it has no bearing in my gender identity."

In my case my gender identity has no bearing  in anything except on my self perception of my gender and who I am. I am a female scientist, scholar, American, Dutch-decendant, martial artist, former bike racer, and last but not least a father by the grace of God.

I do what I want without letting the perceptions of femininity of masculinity  affect my decisions. I am perfectly comfortable "dolling up' at a slumber part, or racing the the dirt bike with the boys. It is me, the same person, just another female.

My sex life is but a small yet comforting and pleasurable part of my life, an spiritual nexus to my partner; as such just her and mine bussines

Kia Ora Jen,

::) Scientists are trained to think things through in a 'logical' way ! By discarding any 'emotional' baggage that might contaminate reason...

::) It's good to see you're not greatly affected by the words of others...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Sarah Louise

As logical as any scientist is, their personal prejudices and beliefs always leak through into their final opinion.
Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
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Anatta

Quote from: Axélle on December 08, 2011, 09:45:10 AM
Bottom line for me?

If you WANT SRS go and get it - then shut up your face and stop blaming anyone for not having given you enough guidance.

That's the typical immature behaviour of a lot of people and is unfortunately supported by the media and some lawyers that make it their living.

YOU CAN NOT PROTECT A PERSON FROM HIM OR HER SELF - if you think so you are a fool or some misguided journalist or legal-beagle. Simple as that.

Axélle
PS: In fact no one to my knowledge has done a survey of suicides actually CAUSED by some overly restrictive gate-keepers. They rather have you kill yourself first, before they be blamed for having made a "mistake".
Current culture to render the patient an imbecile rather then a mature human being. (My very own experience)

Kia Ora Axelle,

::) Gate keepers are 'human' too and like humans at times make mistakes, if they didn't they would not be human...

::) BTW I'm sorry to hear your time with a gate keeper was not a pleasant one, but for you it's now in the past...So be happy in the 'now'....

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Anatta

Quote from: Sarah Louise on December 08, 2011, 12:46:43 PM
As logical as any scientist is, their personal prejudices and beliefs always leak through into their final opinion.

Kia Ora SL,

::)  "True !"

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Princess of Hearts

A gay male is the last thing that I am.  I just don't like males at all.    I can be polite to men but I just don't want to know them or be with them.    I much prefer the company of females.

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Forever21Chic



  OMFG....I'M REALLY JUST A SUPER DUPER EFFEMINATE GAY GUY IN DENIAL WHO DOESN'T LIKE ANAL SEX BUT INSTEAD WANTS TO BE PENETRATED IN HIS IMAGINARY VAGINA!!!   :o

 

  Glad that's cleared up.   :laugh:

   

   
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Anatta

Quote from: Rukia87xo on December 08, 2011, 08:39:54 PM

  OMFG....I'M REALLY JUST A SUPER DUPER EFFEMINATE GAY GUY IN DENIAL WHO DOESN'T LIKE ANAL SEX BUT INSTEAD WANTS TO BE PENETRATED IN HIS IMAGINARY VAGINA!!!   :o

 

  Glad that's cleared up.   :laugh:

   

   

Kia Ora R,

::) Each to their own...Whatever turns one on...After all who am I to judge... ;)

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Rosa

I used to think that I was a gay male, but have since realized that is not who I am; however, it was the path that I took that eventually led to me understanding that I'm a woman.  I never let myself consider that before, but since I knew that I liked men, I felt that I must be gay so I eventually found the courage to explore my sexuality.  That exploration confirmed that I indeed liked guys, but it also confirmed to me that I am not a gay male.
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Anatta

Quote from: Robertina on December 08, 2011, 09:17:22 PM
I used to think that I was a gay male, but have since realized that is not who I am; however, it was the path that I took that eventually led to me understanding that I'm a woman.  I never let myself consider that before, but since I knew that I liked men, I felt that I must be gay so I eventually found the courage to explore my sexuality.  That exploration confirmed that I indeed liked guys, but it also confirmed to me that I am not a gay male.

Kia Ora Robertine,

::) A path well trod by many a trans-person.....

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Ayden

My reply to the OP would be this: we change every day. Every single choice we make and every interaction changes us, even if only a little. I may not know I am or who I will be, but I know who I would like to be. I don't think it needs to be any more complicated than that.

Though, I really don't see how it would be possible to undergo everything and never once second guess yourself until afterwards. I mean, complete transition is a huge and it doesn't happen over night. Doubts would probably come into play pretty early if you were just homosexual and in the closet. The idea reminds me of certain nay-saying bloggers going on about how FTMs are lesbians in denial. (I for one have never been attracted to women. Total gay guy here) 
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Anatta

Quote from: Ayden on December 08, 2011, 09:41:51 PM
My reply to the OP would be this: we change every day. Every single choice we make and every interaction changes us, even if only a little. I may not know I am or who I will be, but I know who I would like to be. I don't think it needs to be any more complicated than that.
Though, I really don't see how it would be possible to undergo everything and never once second guess yourself until afterwards. I mean, complete transition is a huge and it doesn't happen over night. Doubts would probably come into play pretty early if you were just homosexual and in the closet. The idea reminds me of certain nay-saying bloggers going on about how FTMs are lesbians in denial. (I for one have never been attracted to women. Total gay guy here)

Kia Ora Ayden,

::) If one is secure in ones knowledge of their sexual orientation and gender identity then there should be no problems whatsoever...And no need to defend or justify ones identity...

::) However under pressure some 'mentally unstable' people[and lets face it, the minds of  some gender and sexually diverse people are not that 'stable']  make 'mistakes', and at time 'major' mistakes[another fact], some live to regret their mistakes, others don't...Sadly this to is a fact...

::) I'm happy that you are comfortable in your own skin...After all 'self acceptance' is of the utmost importance...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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AbraCadabra

*   Scientists are trained to think things through in a 'logical' way ! By discarding any 'emotional' baggage that might contaminate reason... *

Kia Ora...

that is actually often the problem, not the solution as science is also on an ongoing learning path.
Pretending that by discarding emotion, which no one actually can, be creating an "un-contaminated" outcome is scientifically speaking wrong too.

It is a known fact by now, that EVERY scientist ALSO influences the outcome of his/her "scientific" findings. Margarine is better then butter, now at present butter is again better then margarine...

In this sense I perceive that you have some underlying motivation too - it makes you ask the question of the OP in the first place.

You may try as hard as you wish to keep it all on the rational level but in fact there is ALWAYS an underlying motivation. In your case it may be the wish to "save" some folks from making a mistake?

You can not prevent people from making mistakes. To believe this, is a fallacy based on 'rational though' only. As we are at best 50/50 - rational/emotional, this will not work, unless you have at least a few more people that would check you own rational - such as I in fact do right now.

BTW, it is one of those "be rational only" mistakes that was so clearly committed by Any Rand in her well read book "Atlas shrugged". She also missed the mark by trying to be "rational" only – which in fact she also was not.
It is irrational to be pretending to be rational (scientific) only. That gatekeeper who'd rather have you commit suicide then being blamed for making a mistake, was one good example of hiding his emotion (fear) behind some "scientific" rational finding.

So, if a gay male is in deep denial and wants SRS go for it!
Just don't blame your "mistake" on anyone afterwards, like some immature beings would.
This should take care of the inquiry for all I can see.

In fact - WHO in deep denial will EVER come out of denial, - other then by some major emotional shock?!

My 2 cents for now,
Axélle

Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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Anatta

Quote from: Axélle on December 08, 2011, 11:15:57 PM
*   Scientists are trained to think things through in a 'logical' way ! By discarding any 'emotional' baggage that might contaminate reason... *

Kia Ora...

that is actually often the problem, not the solution as science is also on an ongoing learning path.
Pretending that by discarding emotion, which no one actually can, be creating an "un-contaminated" outcome is scientifically speaking wrong too.

It is a known fact by now, that EVERY scientist ALSO influences the outcome of his/her "scientific" findings. Margarine is better then butter, now at present butter is again better then margarine...

In this sense I perceive that you have some underlying motivation too - it makes you ask the question of the OP in the first place.

You may try as hard as you wish to keep it all on the rational level but in fact there is ALWAYS an underlying motivation. In your case it may be the wish to "save" some folks from making a mistake?

You can not prevent people from making mistakes. To believe this, is a fallacy based on 'rational though' only. As we are at best 50/50 - rational/emotional, this will not work, unless you have at least a few more people that would check you own rational - such as I in fact do right now.

BTW, it is one of those "be rational only" mistakes that was so clearly committed by Any Rand in her well read book "Atlas shrugged". She also missed the mark by trying to be "rational" only – which in fact she also was not.
It is irrational to be pretending to be rational (scientific) only. That gatekeeper who'd rather have you commit suicide then being blamed for making a mistake, was one good example of hiding his emotion (fear) behind some "scientific" rational finding.

So, if a gay male is in deep denial and wants SRS go for it!
Just don't blame your "mistake" on anyone afterwards, like some immature beings would.
This should take care of the inquiry for all I can see.

In fact - WHO in deep denial will EVER come out of denial, - other then by some major emotional shock?!

My 2 cents for now,
Axélle

Kia Ora Axelle,

::) Interesting points, however I should point out that in the conventional sense I'm 'not' the scientist, I was referring to Jen's comments when she said she was a 'female scientist',  I was pointing out a fact about scientists having to be trained to think in a logical way-so in theory a trans-person with a scientific background should be able to use this training so has not get caught up with the emotional turmoil that often blocks rational thoughts when working through ones transition...Plus if one is trained to think in a logical way this would also mean ones actions and reactions will in most cases not be driven by irrational emotions...Like flying off the handle if one misinterprets what a person had said ... Highly emotional/strung scientists are a rarity ,but as usual there are always exceptions to this rule...

::) However people are human and humans have flaws which  often leads 'us' to make mistakes, sometimes major ones... At times even scientists make mistakes so I totally agree with you on that...But for the most part they do tend to learn from their mistakes...

"A definition of insanity-continuing to do the same thing over and over again, but each time hoping for a different outcome/result !"

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Forever21Chic

Quote from: Zenda on December 08, 2011, 09:06:51 PM
Kia Ora R,

::) Each to their own...Whatever turns one on...After all who am I to judge... ;)

Metta Zenda :)

  Kia Ora Zenda

           That's just me being sarcastic, sadly sarcasm is harder for people to grasp over the internet.  :D
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Anatta

Quote from: Rukia87xo on December 09, 2011, 12:48:28 AM
  Kia Ora Zenda

           That's just me being sarcastic, sadly sarcasm is harder for people to grasp over the internet.  :D

Kia Ora R,

::) Don't worry  I knew you were...I was being sarcastic too  ;) ;D  * But I do accept and respect you no matter how you choose to live your life...It's your life to live....

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Bishounen

You know, when I read through the new posts to this thread just now, I suddenly came to think of a very fitting subject that would be relevant for this topic: Josef Kirchner, a MTFTM-transitioner, that, as may be hinted, started of as a birth-assgned male;
A male that later on during his later teens early twenties transitioned into a woman. A woman that was actually both beautiful, passable and succesfull.

However, after some years, she- Judy, as she called herself- started to wonder if she really did the right decision, and after some more years, she started to now feel like a man trapped in a female body.
After some thorough Soulsearching, that amongst other things lead her into a Cure homos and ->-bleeped-<-s through God-group, she de-transitioned into a male again. However, although the de-transition was on her own decision, she was used by the group as a living proof that you someone like her could truly change back successfully.
She however soon woke up and found out how outrageously wrong their opinions and standpoints on the whole topic of Gender, Sexual Orientations and God, were, which she considered being much more fluid and much broader on the spectra than they claimed, and pretty much asked them to shove it and remove her name from their business.

However She, now a He, was nonetheless very happy having de-transitioned and no longer felt trapped in his own body and even started to bodybuild and turned into quite a Mans Man.
He realized, that he actually hadn't really wanted to be a woman, but only wanted SRS, but transitioned into a woman anyways as he did not know of any other options in those days.

Now, he identifies himself as a proud gay male with a vagina and have no intentions to ever change that.

He also works for a broader legal acceptation by the law regarding SRS-procedures, so that even persons that, for instance, identify as gay males like himself, but nonetheless wants SRS, should be able to have it, just as diagnosed transsexuals, and less regrets would occur as a result of this, instead of people doing a full transition although they perhaps only wants to alter a part of their body and not actually transforming into another Sex.

He is indeed quite a fascinating man, really.



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Anatta

Quote from: Bishounen on December 09, 2011, 09:54:43 AM
You know, when I read through the new posts to this thread just now, I suddenly came to think of a very fitting subject that would be relevant for this topic: Josef Kirchner, a MTFTM-transitioner, that, as may be hinted, started of as a birth-assgned male;
A male that later on during his later teens early twenties transitioned into a woman. A woman that was actually both beautiful, passable and succesfull.

However, after some years, she- Judy, as she called herself- started to wonder if she really did the right decision, and after some more years, she started to now feel like a man trapped in a female body.
After some thorough Soulsearching, that amongst other things lead her into a Cure homos and ->-bleeped-<-s through God-group, she de-transitioned into a male again. However, although the de-transition was on her own decision, she was used by the group as a living proof that you someone like her could truly change back successfully.
She however soon woke up and found out how outrageously wrong their opinions and standpoints on the whole topic of Gender, Sexual Orientations and God, were, which she considered being much more fluid and much broader on the spectra than they claimed, and pretty much asked them to shove it and remove her name from their business.

However She, now a He, was nonetheless very happy having de-transitioned and no longer felt trapped in his own body and even started to bodybuild and turned into quite a Mans Man.
He realized, that he actually hadn't really wanted to be a woman, but only wanted SRS, but transitioned into a woman anyways as he did not know of any other options in those days.

Now, he identifies himself as a proud gay male with a vagina and have no intentions to ever change that.

He also works for a broader legal acceptation by the law regarding SRS-procedures, so that even persons that, for instance, identify as gay males like himself, but nonetheless wants SRS, should be able to have it, just as diagnosed transsexuals, and less regrets would occur as a result of this, instead of people doing a full transition although they perhaps only wants to alter a part of their body and not actually transforming into another Sex.

He is indeed quite a fascinating man, really.

Kia Ora B,

::) He does indeed sound like quite a fascinating character...And it sure does fit in with this topic Thanks...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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AbraCadabra

Don't think I like this sort of fascination...

Does THAT make me "...just a closeted gay in deep denial ?"

For it strikes me more tragic then fascinating, really.

Oh, I must be so binary...
Axélle

Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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Jen61

One has to give him credit for having the courage to admit a huge mistake and take corrective action.

So as hard it is for me to conceived uncertainty about our gender identity, I guess he did feel like a male who thought he felt like a female just to discover he really is a male.

I wonder how frequent is this phenomena ?
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