up down up down - starting madness??

[Jay-Bird]

Hi everyone,

I know its been a while since I posted last, although I have been lurking around in the background somewhat.
Am thinking I'll be more active now that things are officially underway, started E bout 8 days ago and Spiro bout 2 months ago - Yay!

So here's me quandary..

Since starting HRT I am finding myself crazy up and down, as in one minute I am so excited and happy that things have started, then the next I find myself down and full of self doubt that its just not going to work out for me, I'm always gonna look like a guy in a dress or the weird goth guy who wears eye liner and plucks his eye brows which is what I get now at work ... I have no doubts about being trans, I have accepted that, its not a choice for me. Before HRT I was kinda meh' about the whole passing thing, as in, I'll just see what happens and if it doesn't work out so well people who can't deal with it (me) can just bite me. But now I can't let it go.. I sometimes look in the mirror, rather obsessively trying to find as many flaws as possible so I know what ffs I need to get. Some days I think, ya I will be fine, give HRT a while and some FFS later, hell I even convince myself I have a few pretty features, then an hour later I find myself slumpt behind the computer looking for examples of other girls my age (33) who have successfully transitioned and pass and are happy - some kind of weird self reassurance thing or something.

Strange thing is I know I have no choice, and I just gotta go with it, ride it out - don't get me wrong I am very determined to see this through all the way and then some, just feel as though I am going mad.

Anyone else have this, or have been through this??

Oh and one more thing, something that bugs me quite a bit that I can't seem to find a definitive answer too no matter how hard I look is, hormones drastically losing their effectiveness with age?? Seems to be such a contested subject and everyone and every place says something different. I mean I know bone structure past about 22-25 doesn't change, but so far as the feminizing effects, do they become less effective?
I read things like on this site: http://transsexual.org/Whattodo.html and it makes me wanna tear my hair out, hormones working and 1/4 of the effect after age 30.. I mean really? Is this kinda stuff actually factual, has it been tested, documented by anyone medically anywhere?

Wow - what a rant, I think I feel a bit better 

Anyway feel free to tell me I am a nut.

Miya out

[lilacwoman]

Miya,
forget all about FFS you look fine and will make a lovely woman after another year or so of hormones.
the black hair looks just right too - if its a wig then its definitely your style.
you need to get out to some trans friendly places to see how nice life can be.

what is stopping you making your transition legal and living and going to work as a woman?

[Whitney]

Miya,
forget all about FFS you look fine and will make a lovely woman after another year or so of hormones.
the black hair looks just right too - if its a wig then its definitely your style.
you need to get out to some trans friendly places to see how nice life can be.

what is stopping you making your transition legal and living and going to work as a woman?

It's posts like these that drive me nuts. Y'all base this all on a single posed thumbnail without taking anything else into account. I've literally been beratted telling me I'm wrong for wanting FFS. I think this is entirely a personal choice and that only each individual can take into account all the necessary factors. You can't possibly determine that someone unequivocally shouldn't get FFS solely on an avatar 150x150 resolution snapshot. My guess is Miya is like me, and has a wide range of "angles" we're not particularly fond of that we feel need improving where genetics have dealt us a poor hand, and trying to tell her she's wrong in thinking that way is pretty mean. I don't mean to lash out at you, but there is no room for complacency in this world, and if someone wants to try and better themselves how is it your right to try and stop them? Hell, cis women are getting these procedures done in drastically increasing numbers, why do you think any of us shouldn't, if not only to be a little more comfortable in our own skin.

NOW, Miya dear, I'm in exactly the same boat as you. Don't let it get you down. I'm almost a year in, and barely passed base camp on Mount My-Voice-Totally-Sucks, I still rarely go by Whitney, I haven't worn makeup in weeks, and I'm not even remotely close to living even marginally part time. It's a constant dread to step up onto the playing field, but not everyone has these insanely crazy "I'm full time, starting HRT in a few months" situations, and I think that's the majority of us all. What keeps me going is the constant reminder for every girl I see that got lucky like that, there are at least twenty that are less fortunate that me, and probably a hundred more too crippled with fear to even put on the uniform.

Also, I stopped caring what other people think and just started being the oddball quirk that I am, though I do have to monitor the political sewage I'm fond of excreting, otherwise I'm sure I'd drive  everyone away.

[El]

First of all Miya, you are a hotty. Dont put yourself down or you are putting me down in the process (because you are better looking than me). Ive heard HRT gives better results the earlier you start them BUT ive looked at your pre-HRT photos in the "could i pass thread"and i have to say you dont look 33 you look more late 20s than early 30s so that should help! Anyway from what ive seen you should get great results from HRT and if you still feel like FFS will help you in a year or 2 years then go for it, but i dont think you need it now even so after the magic hormones get to work i think that my opinion will be compounded. IMHO the most masculising thing i could see from your pics was a lack of confidence and a lack of a smile.

[El]

Whitney - the advantage of a 150x150 thumbnail is that it shows about as much detail as most people bother to see when they look at you. If the thumbnail passes then the person in it probably will too. People are not that observant.

Look at my avatar - I am hardly catwalk material and although I have improved since that was taken I will never be a beauty. Am I passable? Yes. I know because I *do* pass in spite of all my imperfections and my less than 100% female voice. I have had conversations with natal men and women who clearly take me for female - I have even had women in car parks asking me to hold their small child whilst they fold the pram/stroller and put it away.

Perfection is not required, but nerves of steel are a great help. 

Beverley

+1 Nerves of steel can take you a long way! Perfection is far from required.

Also i find that people are far too pre-occupied to go ->-bleeped-<- spotting most days. Infact the biggest single jump in passability was when i realized that my fear and paranoia were drawing attention to myself

[Sweet Blue Girl]

Hi everyone,

I know its been a while since I posted last, although I have been lurking around in the background somewhat.
Am thinking I'll be more active now that things are officially underway, started E bout 8 days ago and Spiro bout 2 months ago - Yay!

So here's me quandary..

Since starting HRT I am finding myself crazy up and down, as in one minute I am so excited and happy that things have started, then the next I find myself down and full of self doubt that its just not going to work out for me, I'm always gonna look like a guy in a dress or the weird goth guy who wears eye liner and plucks his eye brows which is what I get now at work ... I have no doubts about being trans, I have accepted that, its not a choice for me. Before HRT I was kinda meh' about the whole passing thing, as in, I'll just see what happens and if it doesn't work out so well people who can't deal with it (me) can just bite me. But now I can't let it go.. I sometimes look in the mirror, rather obsessively trying to find as many flaws as possible so I know what ffs I need to get. Some days I think, ya I will be fine, give HRT a while and some FFS later, hell I even convince myself I have a few pretty features, then an hour later I find myself slumpt behind the computer looking for examples of other girls my age (33) who have successfully transitioned and pass and are happy - some kind of weird self reassurance thing or something.

Strange thing is I know I have no choice, and I just gotta go with it, ride it out - don't get me wrong I am very determined to see this through all the way and then some, just feel as though I am going mad.

Anyone else have this, or have been through this??

Oh and one more thing, something that bugs me quite a bit that I can't seem to find a definitive answer too no matter how hard I look is, hormones drastically losing their effectiveness with age?? Seems to be such a contested subject and everyone and every place says something different. I mean I know bone structure past about 22-25 doesn't change, but so far as the feminizing effects, do they become less effective?
I read things like on this site: http://transsexual.org/Whattodo.html and it makes me wanna tear my hair out, hormones working and 1/4 of the effect after age 30.. I mean really? Is this kinda stuff actually factual, has it been tested, documented by anyone medically anywhere?

Wow - what a rant, I think I feel a bit better 

Anyway feel free to tell me I am a nut.

Miya out

Yes you're a nut, as much as anyone...the only crazy is who pretends to be sane
We all have to deal with big traumathic problems, and a man body is a real thrauma at least for me, so it's normal to not always have the strength to go on and get depressed, or then regaining that strength and get over-excited. If you feel too much pain, therapist are here for that purpouse.
I can't give you advice on your look, your noose is superb anyway!!!
And I dn't know, maybe it's part of the start of the journey to be so sensitive... And get this contrasted feelings...after all we all have so much expectations on hrt and transition.
It's important to deal with these expectations rationally. Someone would say: anyway you 'll gone look better, so why be sad? But maybe this could sound a cold statement... A more deep work could be done on the reasons why you want to pass and don't axcept your body as it is with its defects that you have the big opportunity to correct... You know if someone accept her male body at least to some degree, then every change is a wow, not a pain!
Anyway I have these oscillating feelings toward life, and I've not even started hrt, cause my doctor did not give me time to talk about that! I do believe that talking and learning to express these expectations really help to set realistic objectives and to live well with the results, and in the process.

[El]

It took me a while to realise: people dont care and if they do, why should I care? Ive noticed that the tiny minority who have given me trouble for being trans have generally been the least enviable people around. I only have to hear their stupidity for a few seconds or minutes, they are stuck with BEING that stupid ALL THE TIME! Surely that is a fate worse than death?

Most people are just too busy. i dont like societies fast pace most of the time but when it comes to passing it is a huge help lol

[Julie Marie]

Self acceptance is critical.  And it's best to accept yourself BEFORE you transition because once you transition you'll find all kinds of things that will "take up your energies."  So it's best to have as much out of the way as you can first.

I wanted to transition long before I even ever heard the word.  And once testosterone damage set in, I figured there was just no way.  I'd have to wait for the next life, and hope there is one, if I ever expected to live in peace.

As the "request" of my then wife (because I was back to crossdressing after a ten year hiatus) I entered into therapy again.  The first time was at the suggestion of my mother when I was around 20.  The therapist and I ended up spending most of the time talking about my dad.

Anyway, I told my then wife that I would go into therapy for her but not to expect it to cure me.  I was 54 at the time and I had long ago learned this wasn't something that could be cured.  So I found a therapist well versed in TG stuff.  My intent was to learn how to live with other people who had a problem with me being a CD.

In one session she asked me why I was so against transitioning.  I gave what I thought was an answer to which she couldn't disagree, in hopes of finally putting an end to any talk about transitioning.  "I can never pass."

By this time I had come to trust her.  I knew she was someone who never lied and never stroked you, just to make you feel better.  I really liked her for her honesty and no-BS approach.

Then she replied, "Oh, I disagree."

That blew me away.  And immediately the thoughts of "Can I really pass? entered my head.

Guess what?  She was right.  I pass all the time.  And I'm still amazed I do.  What I found is the longer you are living in your real life, the more comfortable you are with yourself and the easier it is to pass.  When I would walk through the grocery store, afraid to meet eyes with anyone, I was nervous as hell and totally convinced I couldn't pass.  After a while I realized the only person who clocked me was me.  It was all in my head.

As far as HRT, it does have an effect, no matter when you begin.  But you have to remember it took years for the T to do its thing.  And it will take years for the E too.  When I see old pics of me I see a total guy. So much of that guy is gone today.  The changes are subtle but together really make a difference.

Everyone reacts differently, both physically and emotionally.  If you're up and down a lot, think about the term PMS.  GGs learn to deal with it.  We have to learn too.  Don't mess with the schedule.  Take your meds exactly as your doctor prescribed.  Mine told me I should not only take them every day but at the same time of day too.  These are hormones.  No sense putting your system through any more of a roller coaster ride than needed.

You're 33.  Not a bad age to transition.  You'll probably do just great.  Most of how you do will depend on your relationship with the grey matter between your ears.  Overthink and expect to go into overload.  Go with the flow and you should have a nice life.  Nothing is guaranteed but we can all make our lives better by promising to be kind to ourselves.  Others may need to beat on you.  There's not a lot we can do about that.  We just don't need to join in with them.

[lilacwoman]

It's posts like these that drive me nuts. Y'all base this all on a single posed thumbnail without taking anything else into account. I've literally been beratted telling me I'm wrong for wanting FFS.

Ok Whitney lets have a pix so we can judge as we are the public.

But read Miyas post again and see the problem isn't we think that FFS is wrong but that she's perfectly fine as is.

As El says the troublemakers are usually unenviable and the last one who gave me any trouble was overweight, scruffy, dirty, white trash unmarried mother - do we care what such people think?

[eli77]

I read things like on this site: http://transsexual.org/Whattodo.html and it makes me wanna tear my hair out, hormones working and 1/4 of the effect after age 30.. I mean really? Is this kinda stuff actually factual, has it been tested, documented by anyone medically anywhere?

That site is vile. Assume anything posted on it is wrong until proven otherwise. It is true that younger is better is a general rule for hormones, but each individual will react differently. And no there isn't some set age where everything goes downhill (other than like 11, i.e. start of puberty). There have been women who transitioned post-30 and are gorgeous, and there are women who transition at 18 who feel they need FFS to be okay with their body. I started hormones at 26 and stopped being able to pass as a guy in boy presentation after 5 months. Just see what happens.

As to FFS: this site is pretty negative about it in general. Don't let that turn you off if it's something you want to do. I passed perfectly well before I had FFS done. I didn't do it so other people could see me as female, I did it so I could see me as female. And it worked, fyi.

[stldrmgrl]

Ok Whitney lets have a pix so we can judge as we are the public.

But read Miyas post again and see the problem isn't we think that FFS is wrong but that she's perfectly fine as is.

As El says the troublemakers are usually unenviable and the last one who gave me any trouble was overweight, scruffy, dirty, white trash unmarried mother - do we care what such people think?

I think the point was that it's not up to the public to decide whether FFS is necessary, it's a self-acceptance issue.  Even if everyone told me I didn't need FFS, I'd still get it because I am not content with my image as it currently is, whether it "passes" or not.  However, someone simply suggesting that they do not believe another person needs FFS, does not imply they're arguing against someone's wishes to get it.

To the OP - Your worries are normal.  I've had the exact same thoughts.  As for effectiveness of hormones, that's certainly not limited due to age.  Some of us get extensive results and others not so much; age is irrelevant.  It's a gamble for all of us, but one I'm willing to take as any change is better than none.  Best of luck, hang in there.

[stldrmgrl]

Do you know many women who are truly content with their appearance? Most women have a list of defects no matter how they look.

Beverley

No offense to you, but I refuse to get involved in this age old debate.  Take my words as you wish...

[sysm29]

Honey, I completely understand what you are going through.  I am at a point now where I am so screwed up in the head from all of this anxiety.  I started HRT in Nov. 2009 and I was on it almost a year until around Sep. 2010.  I went on estrogen before I ever began to experiment with wigs and makeup and women's clothes so I had no idea what I would look like.  The fantasy of it was wonderful, but it didn't pass.  Not really at all.  People were supportive, they told me I looked beautiful, and they will all do that because they love you and they want you to have confidence.  There are good days and then there are some horrible days.  My face changes from one day to the next, there is no stability.  I am 26, but I might as well be 33.  I'm getting older now and the dream of becoming a pretty girl is just not going to happen.  Now whatever the doctors can do with a 26-27 year old male is really in their hands, but I never aggressively fought hard enough to make this happen for me.  When I was 17 I found out I was transgender but all these years I never pushed hard and fought hard for it and because of that I'm paying a price- I'm doing this much later than I could have and of course the results may not be as good as they could have been, also I've languished in this male body for a longer time - I'm almost 30, its not that far away.  What realistically can be done with a 30 year old man to make him pass 100% like a woman?  Well, it certainly cannot happen overnight or in a few months or realistically in a year's time.  It's going to take a long time.  I'm anxious, extremely self-conscious, filled with loss and doubt and disbelief.  Testosterone has destroyed my face and my body and I'm fighting a war against it and I'm not winning.  Each day is a battle and each day I get up and put on my body armor and by the end of the day, well I'm ready to surrender.  Somehow I survive.

Psychologically its torture of a female brain - to live in a male body, have a male face, and to live as a man, when you never ever wanted to live like that.  Depending on what you look like, the transition can be easy or be hard.  If you are a young boyish looking person with soft features, you'll probably just go right into your Real Life Test.  If there are serious facial problems (like a very prominent browbone for example) well then its very hard to see it passing.  Estrogen does more than I thought it did, but it didn't change my face shape or my facial bone.  There are real passability problems that cannot be fixed without FFS. 

Unfortunately for us, FFS is done by a handful of surgeons, and a lot of transgender women are told they don't need it when really they do.  Even women that have had FFS tell other women they don't need any.  I think really if you've made it alive after the Siege of Male Puberty and all of which it has wrought upon you, you probably need at least a little something.

It is a rollercoaster but stay on the estrogen.  Don't go off of it.  Your brain needs it and one day it's going to work.  Going back to looking more masculine is not going to make you feel any happier.

The best advice I can give to any transgender woman is to just be the woman they always wanted to be.  You are doing this for your own peace and for your own survival and it does not matter what anyone says or thinks.  You must be yourself or you will go out of your mind.

[Forever21Chic]

  Yeah i wouldn't look to much into websites like the one you posted. HRT affects vary from person to person, age does play a role (preferably before or during early puberty) but genetics (how many hormone receptor cells you have available) and proper hormone levels are just as important for maximum results. Also i've found that having a positive outlook while on HRT helps, you'll see better results if you believe in your mind they're working then if you just keep thinking "wdf they aren't working!."

  I started HRT @ 24 through 25 and i've had GREAT success with hormones alone, ask anyone here that's seen my pic's. Not trying to sound vain or anything but i probably look better then alot of young ts women on this site that started in their late teens early 20's and yet i've seen a few older ts women on here that look just as pretty as me if even prettier...point being age isn't everything. 

  About FFS, if you think you need it then go for it...do it for you and nobody else. 

[Whitney]

Ok Whitney lets have a pix so we can judge as we are the public.

Seriously? I've posted loads of pics in the "Do I Pass" sticky. Sorry if you expected me to go dig them up for you.

Certainly how I look is not relevant to people who squawk about how someone shouldn't get FFS because they appear good enough. God I hate complacency. I'm improving myself, constantly. Anyway, since you went and pointed out your age, I was born January 17, 1988. Again, if you want to figure out exactly how old that makes me you can do the math. I started my more-than-average hormone regimen February 16th of this year.  As you said in your last sentence, I'm not transitioning to look differently to the world, but to feel normal when I look at myself in a mirror. I've never really cared what other people thing. Though their criticisms, when paired with how to fix what I'm doing wrong, are always greatly appreciated. I smirk when I get frowns and revulsion.

And I don't think I need FFS, but I know I'm not happy with not doing anything. Every little shred that helps is worth fighting for. It also helps that I'm financially well off for being my age, which makes a lot of these decisions seem less extravagant.

[MsDazzler]

And didn't transgendercare.com say that the more you were masculizined in the first place, the more dramatic effects there would be on hormones?

[jillian]

Hi everyone,

I know its been a while since I posted last, although I have been lurking around in the background somewhat.
Am thinking I'll be more active now that things are officially underway, started E bout 8 days ago and Spiro bout 2 months ago - Yay!

So here's me quandary..

Since starting HRT I am finding myself crazy up and down, as in one minute I am so excited and happy that things have started, then the next I find myself down and full of self doubt that its just not going to work out for me, I'm always gonna look like a guy in a dress or the weird goth guy who wears eye liner and plucks his eye brows which is what I get now at work ... I have no doubts about being trans, I have accepted that, its not a choice for me. Before HRT I was kinda meh' about the whole passing thing, as in, I'll just see what happens and if it doesn't work out so well people who can't deal with it (me) can just bite me. But now I can't let it go.. I sometimes look in the mirror, rather obsessively trying to find as many flaws as possible so I know what ffs I need to get. Some days I think, ya I will be fine, give HRT a while and some FFS later, hell I even convince myself I have a few pretty features, then an hour later I find myself slumpt behind the computer looking for examples of other girls my age (33) who have successfully transitioned and pass and are happy - some kind of weird self reassurance thing or something.

Strange thing is I know I have no choice, and I just gotta go with it, ride it out - don't get me wrong I am very determined to see this through all the way and then some, just feel as though I am going mad.

Anyone else have this, or have been through this??

Oh and one more thing, something that bugs me quite a bit that I can't seem to find a definitive answer too no matter how hard I look is, hormones drastically losing their effectiveness with age?? Seems to be such a contested subject and everyone and every place says something different. I mean I know bone structure past about 22-25 doesn't change, but so far as the feminizing effects, do they become less effective?
I read things like on this site: http://transsexual.org/Whattodo.html and it makes me wanna tear my hair out, hormones working and 1/4 of the effect after age 30.. I mean really? Is this kinda stuff actually factual, has it been tested, documented by anyone medically anywhere?

Wow - what a rant, I think I feel a bit better 

Anyway feel free to tell me I am a nut.

Miya out

God I deal with this, and it is so extreme.
On good days I feel sexy and beautiful, on bad days I think about suicide constantly and have to fight to push through.
I have no idea where this comes from other that I think I am afraid of being isolated and shamed. I am terrified of being rejected.
It is extremely easy for me to associate everything with masculinity, sometimes even just the way I sit in a chair.


I think this fear is causing me to pin point eery possible masculine ideal in relation to my physical and mental attributes.
This in turn is causing me to foster a resentment against myself.
It sounds absurd, but it is real. When I hit the low, it is the most intense, agonizing pain I have ever experienced.
Whats worse, is I can see the different forms of acceptance I am offered from loved ones.
Such as, saving face, or out of necessity. Sometimes, when Im down, I project these on to the one person whom truly loves me. This in turn causes her to begin the rejection process towards me, thus beginning to isolate me even more.

Its a very complex issue, but talking it out whether via typed or verbal words, seems to offer me an enemy, one that I can conceptualize, and one that I know I can overcome. I just have to stay alive.

Then there is media, religion, politics, and employment. All of these further complicate the intricate psychological web of hope vs hopelessness.
Faith is one thing that Ive been learning to have.
Ive found this within the research and understanding of consciousness and how it relates to history, religion, spirituality, and science.
Everyone has a path, sometimes our paths have not been walked in so long it is hard to differentiate them from the vast thickets that envelop them. So we get off track.
I dont know.

I understand, I share that same feeling. I am thankful I didnt kill myself last night...

[lilacwoman]

And didn't transgendercare.com say that the more you were masculizined in the first place, the more dramatic effects there would be on hormones?

If masculinized means the testo gave a CroMagnon face and body then I have to say that statement is wrong.  But if the male look is a bit smoother and slimmer then the feminisation will be quite surprising.

[Jay-Bird]

Thanks all for your reply's.
It definitely helps reading what other peoples thoughts and opinions are, good to know I am not completely mad, just a lil
I had a therapy session last night, thought I would share a few things that we discussed, as I bought up what I talked about in my original post.
I guess firstly, he told me in his own words I need to relax and let things take their course, try to stop winding myself up cause it won't help any.
Then I asked him about the whole age and hormones thing, to which he said that it would not have made a difference if I started now or a few years ago, the feminizing effects would be the same. He basically said that the difference would have been if I had taken them before or during puberty. He said they should have a good effect on me and early 30's is a fine age to start. The other interesting thing he said was, its mostly all dependent on your genes, and how many receptors you have open to E, so really its kinda luck of the draw. Guess this is a gamble we all must take..
Seems kinda crazy though, I mean the whole luck of the draw thing, I just wish I knew or had some idea of whats to come, but i guess we all feel that way.
Anyway I am gonna try take things a bit easier and not get too worked up.
I will also post up some progress shots in a few months in one of the "Pass" threads, perhaps even a smiling one, ha! that would be something.

thanks again for your reply's.
Miya

[Julie Marie]

Sometimes we can be our own worst enemy.  When that brain of ours starts firing questions we have no way of answering, all hell can break loose, if we let it.

Your concerns about appearance should not be brushed off by anyone, no matter how inaccurate they may be.  After all, passing makes life after transition much easier and who wants to transition into a harder life?  But for most of us it's our family and friends that have the greatest effect on our life after transition.  Of course, workplace acceptance is also important.  Maybe you want to focus on resolving that before doing any more worrying.  In the meantime...

I always found it helpful to look at before and after pictures of MTFs.  I was amazed at the changes, though I never believed I could accomplish the same thing. 

It was on a recent thread here that I decided to post before and after pictures.  I found one of the last pictures of me, even before letting my hair grow, and placed it next to one of my better post transition pictures.  After I posted it I found myself shocked by the changes.  I think most of us would say pretty much the same thing.

I'm still critical of my presentation.  I still see a lot of guy in me.  But every time I say that to anyone I get comments like, "You're crazy!  You could never pass as a guy now!"  Naturally, I don't believe them.  See what I mean about brain processes?