Got clocked

[fionabell]

I had to go to therapist today and as i was moping along through the city and a back packer girl clocked me.

I get clocked all the time. I think she got me because I wasn't feeling confident. None of the males can ever tell though. weird.

[tekla]

Women tend to a higher level of attention to detail in general.  That, and men just care a lot less too.

[Annah]

this is going to sound really weird but the girls who have clocked me in the past were girls:

1. In their early 20s
2. A "minority"
3. Someone who appears to have self esteem issues.

From my experience, upbeat or happy girls do not clock me. It's the ones who look miserable that do so when it happens I just shrug my shoulders and feel sorry for the poor sod.

This is from working in the mall in the juniors department and I had been clocked about four times in the year I worked there....well...from what I def know at least.

At Barnes and Noble, I have not been clocked once.

[fionabell]

Women tend to a higher level of attention to detail in general.  That, and men just care a lot less too.

Could have fooled me, from all the door opening and laying their coats in the mud for me.

[Just Shelly]

I never knew for sure if I was noticed (clocked never made sense to me) The last time was just recent and for some reason I took it bad. Thinking about it though it may have had nothing to do with being noticed.

I can reasonably say the only time I knew for sure I was figured as trans was by two gay men on Easter day. Again, don't know for sure but am fairly positive. Gay men  in my book (my opinion and experience) are the worst to point out and to dislike MTF. I think they are in the argument of we are just gay men that need to be feminine. I don't know and frankly don't care. I think its bs though for anyone to point out someones else situation.

Toddlers in my book are like face recognition software. They will notice right off the bat and if their unsure once you talk, then that will cement their decision. If they smile=good, if they are wide eyed=unsure, if they look like they just seen the boogeyman=no pass! You may not even pass to the parent but once the toddler smiles at you, your an automatic pass with them too.

[Annah]

Toddlers in my book are like face recognition software. They will notice right off the bat and if their unsure once you talk, then that will cement their decision. If they smile=good, if they are wide eyed=unsure, if they look like they just seen the boogeyman=no pass! You may not even pass to the parent but once the toddler smiles at you, your an automatic pass with them too.

lol

why i always stress to practice the voice

[lilacwoman]

gay men don't like TS because we remind them that they probably went through or wanted to go through the little fairy dancer in the pink tutu stage and because we chop off what they prize most highly.


I go along with Annah's  '20s', minorities, self esteem' selection.

[apple pie]

Last year, before I was full-time (when I presented as a girl if I went anywhere more than 2 km away from home), I got clocked about once every 3 months or so.

But since then I've changed only one thing about my hair and haven't been clocked this year at all, having been full-time since last December.

So perhaps it's just one small thing that makes one clockable! I think it's worth trying to find out what it might be

PS Those who clocked me were mostly men, not women! I only remember one woman clocking me... (but then her child then corrected her and said "that's not a boy, that's a girl...")

[fionabell]

this is going to sound really weird but the girls who have clocked me in the past were girls:

1. In their early 20s
2. A "minority"
3. Someone who appears to have self esteem issues.

From my experience, upbeat or happy girls do not clock me. It's the ones who look miserable that do so when it happens I just shrug my shoulders and feel sorry for the poor sod.

This is from working in the mall in the juniors department and I had been clocked about four times in the year I worked there....well...from what I def know at least.

At Barnes and Noble, I have not been clocked once.

wow that's reassuring because obviously you aren't very convincing visually.

A lot of us pre-transition girls have got a lot to hope for

[fionabell]

Last year, before I was full-time (when I presented as a girl if I went anywhere more than 2 km away from home), I got clocked about once every 3 months or so.

But since then I've changed only one thing about my hair and haven't been clocked this year at all, having been full-time since last December.

So perhaps it's just one small thing that makes one clockable! I think it's worth trying to find out what it might be

PS Those who clocked me were mostly men, not women! I only remember one woman clocking me... (but then her child then corrected her and said "that's not a boy, that's a girl...")

what actually is clocked? I mean heaps of people could notice but be polite and accepting and just not say anything. Maybe whether we think people are noticing or not is in our minds.

[apple pie]

what actually is clocked? I mean heaps of people could notice but be polite and accepting and just not say anything. Maybe whether we think people are noticing or not is in our minds.

Yup of course! Well in fact, someone who does not pass 90% of the time would probably still have no one say anything to him or her.

And to be honest, even though I say I haven't got clocked this year (by which of course I really mean "I didn't notice anyone clocking me this year"!), I think it is mathematically very possible that someone *did* at least suspect it and I didn't notice it. My reasoning is that even if I assume that my pass rate is 99.99%, then the chance that not even one person in 10,000 people clocked me is only 0.9999^10000 = 36.8%. (Goes down to an extremely unlikely 0.0045% after 100,000 people have seen you!) But I'm happy enough if I do have a 99.99% pass rate!

But anyway, me not being pretty at all (I don't even know how to use any makeup still so I look crap), if being clocked includes people who have suspicions that I might be a guy, well then some not-very-pretty genetic girls would "get clocked" too... so I'm not too worried about that anyway

[Steffi]

Sorry if this seems pedantic but....

if I assume that my pass rate is 99.99%, then the chance that not even one person in 10,000 people clocked me is only 0.9999^10000 = 36.8%. (Goes down to an extremely unlikely 0.0045% after 100,000 people have seen you!) But I'm happy enough if I do have a 99.99% pass rate!

What???     That maths seems highly suspect to me.
If you pass 99.99% then you pass to 9,999 out of 10,000 people, therefore one person in 10,000 clocks you which is a percentage of 0.01  ( which is the same 0.01% needed to make the 99.99% up to 100%)
When the number of people goes up 10 times to 100,000, the number of clocks goes up 10 times as well so then 10 out of 100,000 clock you - the percentage however remains the same which is the main feature of percentages and ratios

[apple pie]

Sorry if this seems pedantic but....  What???     That maths seems highly suspect to me.
If you pass 99.99% then you pass to 9,999 out of 10,000 people, therefore one person in 10,000 clocks you which is a percentage of 0.01  ( which is the same 0.01% needed to make the 99.99% up to 100%)
When the number of people goes up 10 times to 100,000, the number of clocks goes up 10 times as well so then 10 out of 100,000 clock you - the percentage however remains the same which is the main feature of percentages and ratios

I think you confused the notions of "being clocked by 1 person in 10,000 on average" (99.99% = the probability that you pass in front of ONE single person) and "the probability of not being clocked by even 1 person in 10,000" ( = probability of passing in front of 10,000 random people)

See it this way... since on average you get clocked by 1 person out of 10,000, you would expect it to be fairly likely that at least one person out of a random group of 10,000 people has clocked you, right? (36.8%)
And since on average you get clocked by 10 people out of 100,000, it means it is very unlikely that not a single person in 100,000 people clocks you, correct? (0.0045%)

99.99% is NOT the probability that you won't get clocked by anyone in 10,000 people, or that at least one person clocks you in 10,000 people! It's the probability that you pass in front of ONE person.

**WARNING: BORING MATHS DETAILS below, don't read if you don't want to!!**

If you are into some maths, by some relatively simple high school maths (binomial theorem), the probability of exactly r people out of 10,000 clocking you is

    nCr * p^(n-r) * (1 - p)^r,

where p = 0.9999% is your pass rate, n = 10000 is the number of people you've met, and nCr = the binomial coefficient n!/[r! (n - r)!], and thus you have something like this

r  vs.  probability of being clocked in front of exactly r people out of 10,000
0         36.8%
1         36.8%
2         18.4%
3         6.1%
4         1.5%
5         0.3%
...
and so on, rapidly approaching zero as r increases.

In the case of meeting 100,000 people (i.e. with n = 100,000 instead of 10,000), you expect to pass in front of approximately 10 people out of 100,000, and the probabilities show that too:
r  vs.  probability of being clocked in front of exactly r people out of 100,000
0         0.0045%
1         0.045%
2         0.23%
3         0.76%
4         1.9%
5         3.8%
6         6.3%
7         9.0%
8         11.3%
9         12.5%
10       12.5%
11       11.4%
12       9.5%
...
so as expected, the probability peaks near r = 10.

It may be helpful if you think in terms of tosses of a fair coin, which has a 50% chance of getting a head (1 in 2 tosses on average is a head). The probability of two tosses being a head is 1/2 * 1/2 = 25%, not 50%. The probability of 20 tosses all being heads is (1/2)^20 = 0.000095%.

[Mahsa Tezani]

I can reasonably say the only time I knew for sure I was figured as trans was by two gay men on Easter day. Again, don't know for sure but am fairly positive. Gay men  in my book (my opinion and experience) are the worst to point out and to dislike MTF.

To most gay men, mtfs appear as variations of DRAG. Therefore, they are the first to say, "OMG, she looks fabulous! whats her real name?"

Not really. Gay men respect transwomen even if they clock you.

Cuz a lot of gay men do drag and many mtfs can't compare to a drag queen all done up. I work in cosmetics and do TG performing. I am also not stupid, I can tell the difference between a male and female face.

[lilacwoman]

back to binarism again.

[Mahsa Tezani]

gay men don't like TS because we remind them that they probably went through or wanted to go through the little fairy dancer in the pink tutu stage and because we chop off what they prize most highly.

Really now? Even though a lot of DQs become TSs. They may not like you due to your attitude.

[sneakersjay]

I am the parent of a teen girl (cis).  She is tall, has short hair, and very small breasts.  She tells me on many occasions people mistake her for a teen boy, though she is wearing girls clothing.  Her style is not overly girly and she wears no makeup.  She finds it interesting and shrugs it off. 

My son used to be mistaken for a girl because he had very long hair, even though he wore boys clothes.  He would say, why do they think I'm a girl?  I'm wearing boy's clothes!  (Like DUH!).

So yeah, it does happen to cis people as well.

And really, do these 'clockers' really know for sure?  How can they be sure?  Unless you look like those people on the People of Walmart site.  Balding with beards wearing pink short shorts, halter top, and heels.

Jay

[nickikim]

I never knew for sure if I was noticed (clocked never made sense to me) The last time was just recent and for some reason I took it bad. Thinking about it though it may have had nothing to do with being noticed.

I can reasonably say the only time I knew for sure I was figured as trans was by two gay men on Easter day. Again, don't know for sure but am fairly positive. Gay men  in my book (my opinion and experience) are the worst to point out and to dislike MTF. I think they are in the argument of we are just gay men that need to be feminine. I don't know and frankly don't care. I think its bs though for anyone to point out someones else situation.

Toddlers in my book are like face recognition software. They will notice right off the bat and if their unsure once you talk, then that will cement their decision. If they smile=good, if they are wide eyed=unsure, if they look like they just seen the boogeyman=no pass! You may not even pass to the parent but once the toddler smiles at you, your an automatic pass with them too.

my gf's niece looked at a picture of us and asked if the other girl was her sister,   my new favorite kid!

[Maya Zimmerman]

apple - A bit like my favorite example from Statistics class:  If you get 50 random people in a room, the likelihood that at least two will share the same birthday is over 97%.

[Steffi]

@ apple pie

I think you confused the notions of "being clocked by 1 person in 10,000 on average" (99.99% = the probability that you pass in front of ONE single person) and "the probability of not being clocked by even 1 person in 10,000" ( = probability of passing in front of 10,000 random people)

Yeah, you're right that I misunderstood (and am not bright enough to do the maths either)

LOL ..... lies, damned lies and statistics