My levels, and then my fears since being prescribed..

[Alainaluvsu]

Before I start, I'd like to say YES I plan on asking my doctor about this... when I get a chance. However I work and go to school so my chances are very limited.

After self medicating for a couple months, my appointment with the endo finally came. My tests results were as follows:

Proclactin 12.8 ng/ml
Testosterone 25 ng/dL
Estradiol 175.2 pg/mL

Thyroid normal
Liver nearly perfect
Kidneys were fine.
Potassium was on the low side of normal (3.9 ... normal showing 3.5 to 5.1)

Tests were done 11/3/11

From my research, these levels are pretty close to low normal testosterone, normal estradiol for females. I was prescribed the same things I had been taking, except they're all generics. I was taking Estrofem, Spironotone, and Fincar.

Ever since, I've been getting hot flashes like crazy and my body hair isn't falling out like it used to. The body hair i'm not too concerned about since well.. maybe it's just cycling, and plus my leg hair has been starting to fall out a lil bit. However I've noticed a lil more body hair growth on fingers like my pinky. Also, I've been feeling a lil more greasy than I had been since self medicating. My sex drive and emotional levels are still the same, however. Do yall think my worries are good enough of a concern to ask my doctor to represcribe me to what I've been self medicating on? She seems like the kind of doctor that will be more than willing to do many things my way, as long as she doesn't see them as dangerous. I mean hey, she prescribed the exact dosages that I had been using!!

Oh, on an added note, idk if this makes a difference.. due to the amount of pills she prescribed me, i'm taking my dosages a lil differently. Maybe I should cut up an estradiol and take half in the morning and half at night to mimic  what i'd been doing? AHH I was progressing really well!! LOL I don't wanna go back any!! :O

EDIT: Also, as I was writing this, I started getting slight muscle pain in my upper chest and other areas. I know what it feels like to be sore from working out.. and this is totally not it... maybe it's muscle breaking down? I don't know =/

[Beep]

The way you describe getting greasier and a little more body hair, in my opinion, sounds like your testosterone has risen since you've started your new regimen.
I seriously doubt that it is caused from replacing your medication with generic brands since they should all be the same thing. If you went from splitting up your estrogen throughout the day to taking it all at once, I would rule that out as the cause of your testosterone rising, because, as I've heard, increasing estrogen levels (which you pretty much did by DOUBLE) can cause your testosterone levels to increase as well. Even though you're still taking the same amount of estrogen daily, you are now having a larger amount of it absorbed into your blood and estrogen receptors which can throw things out of proportion.

In my opinion doing this is fine, and as your body gets used to this new regimen, your testosterone will go back down, however if you're unhappy about that, try taking your medication as you once were.
It's important to stick with the same regimen, day after day, even though you're taking the same amount of milligrams.

By the way, I'm pretty sure normal estrogen for females is a lot higher than 175 pg/mL (isn't it supposed to be like over 300?), and normal testosterone levels for a female should be lower (like 0.5 - 2.5?).

[Alainaluvsu]

I'm thinking the same for the most part. Actually today it was a lot better. No hot flashes, my dry skin and sore nipples, all are back. The morning was when I take more estrogen (but not by much). I think I just need to keep being patient.

The levels you are bringing up are measured in a different way (such as mmol or pmol). My results were measured in ng in serum tests. "Normal"  testosterone levels are the following, according to http://www.bloodindex.org/normal_laboratory_values.php

Testosterone:
Female     6–86 ng/dl            0.21–3 nmol/L
Male         270–1070 ng/dl    9.3–37 nmol/L

Trying to say what MtFs SHOULD have, in estradiol, is a little tricky due to the fact that genetic women go through different phases. Each of these phases bring different estradiol ranges. As per http://www.earlymenopause.com/tests.htm in pg/ml:

Follicular phase: 24-138
Luteal phase: 19-164
Periovulatory: 107-402

For the record, my lab tests show that a males range in estradiol (didn't list for a female) is 11.6-41.2

So, I'm actually well within range of a woman who is ovulating, and above range of the other two phases. If I'm not mistaken, I believe I've read on one doctors site that she tries to keep Estradiol levels between 120-200 pg/ml for transsexuals. I've seen a site or two where it's said to be ideal to be between 180-200. I'd look these up, but I have to get to school soon.

I'm not too sure what pmol levels are suppose to be for estradiol. I'm sure those are above 300, however.

[xxUltraModLadyxx]

I'm thinking the same for the most part. Actually today it was a lot better. No hot flashes, my dry skin and sore nipples, all are back. The morning was when I take more estrogen (but not by much). I think I just need to keep being patient.

The levels you are bringing up are measured in a different way (such as mmol or pmol). My results were measured in ng in serum tests. "Normal"  testosterone levels are the following, according to http://www.bloodindex.org/normal_laboratory_values.php

Testosterone:
Female     6–86 ng/dl            0.21–3 nmol/L
Male         270–1070 ng/dl    9.3–37 nmol/L

Trying to say what MtFs SHOULD have, in estradiol, is a little tricky due to the fact that genetic women go through different phases. Each of these phases bring different estradiol ranges. As per http://www.earlymenopause.com/tests.htm in pg/ml:

Follicular phase: 24-138
Luteal phase: 19-164
Periovulatory: 107-402

For the record, my lab tests show that a males range in estradiol (didn't list for a female) is 11.6-41.2

So, I'm actually well within range of a woman who is ovulating, and above range of the other two phases. If I'm not mistaken, I believe I've read on one doctors site that she tries to keep Estradiol levels between 120-200 pg/ml for transsexuals. I've seen a site or two where it's said to be ideal to be between 180-200. I'd look these up, but I have to get to school soon.

I'm not too sure what pmol levels are suppose to be for estradiol. I'm sure those are above 300, however.

that's interesting. my lab work said normal female range of testosterone is <35 ng/dl. i guess some need more or less than others?

[AmySmiles]

If you're on spiro, the testosterone level isn't necessarily 100% accurate.  Since spiro competes with testosterone for receptors, you can't really tell how much T is actually getting through, so the level is more like an educated guess.  I actually made an interesting discovery regarding this a few weeks ago so I'll share how I came to this conclusion.

I had read somewhere, probably here, that taking doses in different ways (split up vs. separate, etc) can affect you differently.  Recently, I had noticed some chest hairs that I hadn't noticed before, so I got worried and decided to switch things up a little bit to see if it'd help - I tried taking my entire spiro dose at night instead of split.  I felt amazing* for about 1-2 days, then back to normal again.  So that didn't help.  After about a week, I got to thinking about what else it could have been and concluded it could be the increased spiro dose since I had still taken my morning dose before the full dose that first night.  So I tried that again and felt amazing again.  I've been doing that new dose for about 3 weeks and still feel 100% awesome, so I'm going to ask my doctor to raise my dose if my levels look ok.

So I think more spiro is certainly worth trying if you still feel kind of "male, icky", but I wouldn't recommend doing something like this without supervision.  Wanted to share since it seems to help in my case.  For reference, my T level was 22 ng/dl with my other dose, so I was definitely within the female range before this little experiment.

*By "felt amazing," I mean I got several changes *overnight* in the direction one would expect on E.  For example, breast fullness, skin even softer, changes in body fat distribution, etc.

[JennX]

I had my regular blood test last week, and after 17 months of HRT here were my results:

Estradiol (E2): 195.8 pg/ml
Total Testosterone (Free + Bound): 21 ng/dl
Serum Potassium: 4.1 mEq/L
Hepatic Function: Normal

My doc likes to keep his MTF patients E2 level between 125-150 pg/ml. But I'm happy with my results thus far, so I'm keeping all my med dosages the same. I do like to eat a lot of nuts and apricots, which are stuffed full of potassium, so I always try to monitor it closely. Most docs vary on "ideal MTF E2 levels"... but anything between 100-200 pg/ml seems to be the general consensus.

Based on the numbers you posted, you should be right where you want to be. But then again I'm not a MD, and no two person's physiology is exactly the same.

Also remember to take 1 "Baby Aspirin" per day ... as it helps prevents blood clots, and keeps everything flowing smoothly.

[Alainaluvsu]

If you're on spiro, the testosterone level isn't necessarily 100% accurate.  Since spiro competes with testosterone for receptors, you can't really tell how much T is actually getting through, so the level is more like an educated guess.  I actually made an interesting discovery regarding this a few weeks ago so I'll share how I came to this conclusion.

I had read somewhere, probably here, that taking doses in different ways (split up vs. separate, etc) can affect you differently.  Recently, I had noticed some chest hairs that I hadn't noticed before, so I got worried and decided to switch things up a little bit to see if it'd help - I tried taking my entire spiro dose at night instead of split.  I felt amazing* for about 1-2 days, then back to normal again.  So that didn't help.  After about a week, I got to thinking about what else it could have been and concluded it could be the increased spiro dose since I had still taken my morning dose before the full dose that first night.  So I tried that again and felt amazing again.  I've been doing that new dose for about 3 weeks and still feel 100% awesome, so I'm going to ask my doctor to raise my dose if my levels look ok.

So I think more spiro is certainly worth trying if you still feel kind of "male, icky", but I wouldn't recommend doing something like this without supervision.  Wanted to share since it seems to help in my case.  For reference, my T level was 22 ng/dl with my other dose, so I was definitely within the female range before this little experiment.

*By "felt amazing," I mean I got several changes *overnight* in the direction one would expect on E.  For example, breast fullness, skin even softer, changes in body fat distribution, etc.

I really think I was being paranoid when I wrote that. I haven't been on HRT for long (Mid September since I started Spiro). Today I felt pretty girly, lol..  You know the feel of having an estrogen high when you're just happy (or insert random emotion) for no reason? I had that today, my nipples have been sharply hurting, my hands are pretty dry today (and I used lotion and a moisturizer), etc etc. If I had to guess, my testosterone or estradiol levels hit such a threshold that my body decided to pump out alot of testosterone over the past few days. Perhaps today they just decided to give up producing so much.

Or who knows, maybe I took a dud pill lol!

that's interesting. my lab work said normal female range of testosterone is <35 ng/dl. i guess some need more or less than others?

Yeah, my lab has slightly different levels for normal range than some of those listed on the internet, too. But nearly every source I've seen on the internet has around the 5-90 ng/dl mark.

My doc likes to keep his MTF patients E2 level between 125-150 pg/ml. But I'm happy with my results thus far, so I'm keeping all my med dosages the same. I do like to eat a lot of nuts and apricots, which are stuffed full of potassium, so I always try to monitor it closely. Most docs vary on "ideal MTF E2 levels"... but anything between 100-200 pg/ml seems to be the general consensus.

Based on the numbers you posted, you should be right where you want to be. But then again I'm not a MD, and no two person's physiology is exactly the same.

Also remember to take 1 "Baby Aspirin" per day ... as it helps prevents blood clots, and keeps everything flowing smoothly.

Maybe I should ask where my doctor is trying to keep me at. The only thing is, no doctor really has experience with transsexuals around here. She does, but I am the first one she has seen that hasn't been on HRT for any significant period of time. The nurse that told me my levels over the phone told me that my results are "really good for only being 2 months in." and "Just stay on what you've been doing and you'll be fine!"

[Alainaluvsu]

Sorry for raising the dead, but I just noticed my paranoia and thought I'd update yall. Maybe this will help others who are feeling what I was feeling at the time.

Three months have passed since my last post on this thread. I went to the lab today, and my results are:

Testosterone: 9ng/ml
Estradiol: 722 pg/ml

722?? That's over a 4x increase of where they were 3 months ago. How does it get so high unless my body just cannot produce testosterone at adequate levels? Those are first trimester pregnant levels! I have been taking my dosage, no more no less, for 5 months. I was a bit paranoid I do believe, lol! The next few weeks are going to be hell as my estradiol levels decrease and I probably experience post partum .. everything

Needless to say my doctor asked me to lower my estradiol dosage to a certain amount over the phone. My appointment is the 14th, and I'm thinking about asking her if I could possibly be intersexed.

[AbraCadabra]

Not sure if it helps since it needs a conversion...

I learned a little earlier that London's "Charing Cross" hospital advises Estradiol levels for trans-women at: 200 - 400 pmol/l

This would be in range for female (not pregnant); all values from my lab.
Follicular: 46 - 607 pmol/l
Lutheal:  161- 774 pmol/l

But above postmenopausal: <18.4 - 201 pmol/l

BTW... pregnancy 1st trimester:
789 - >15 781 pmol/l

The latter a sure-fire sign for morning sickness, I say!

Myself I am on 259 pmol/l - post-op and on almost minimum oral E.

My S-Total Testosterone is 0.52 nmol/l
female range: 0.13 – 2.38 nmol/l

It might just provide some perspective?

I have just now changed to patches - it might increase my T by some, as oral E is known to reduce T...

http://www.project-aware.org/Managing/Hrt/estrogen.shtml

Transdermal estrogen and oral estrogen have differing effects on androgens in the body. Oral estrogen lowers free testosterone and can lead to androgen deficiency (affecting libido among other things), while transdermal estrogen has little effect on testosterone levels. Transdermal estrogen may offer other advantages over oral estrogens, although more research is needed.

Axélle