What makes me look female?

[sneakersjay]

Maybe she assumed 'her' because you're short and didn't really get a look at you.  This is where your friend should have said Dominik's a guy.  But truthfully when my kids get misgendered they just  laugh.  I know we're really sensitive about this, but people do slip up without thinking and say the wrong thing even if they know you're male but said female.  If it was someone who mattered I'd definitely correct them but otherwise you might want to laugh.  And if they say what's so funny?  You called me a girl and I'm a guy.

I have met a lot of cis men who have very feminine characteristics, but if misgendered they just correct it and move on.

It's more difficult if you aren't passing; correcting people (that don't matter) just outs you and makes you stand out, which was worse IMO.  I dislike (okay HATE) outing myself.


Jay

[Arch]

I wasn't getting misgendered at all after a certain point, at least as far as I could tell. This went on for a good year and a half or two years. Then, about six months ago, I went into an office supply store and was ma'amed at the customer service desk. I can't remember whether it was a man or a woman who addressed me. I think a guy. Without thinking, I got a befuddled look on my face and said, "Ma'am??!!!" We both laughed about it, and he apologized and said that his boss was a woman, so he just fell into it. I don't know if that's true, and I don't care. To me, this was one of those classic misreadings that occasionally happen when clerks don't take a long look at someone.

My ex, who is a little femmy, was occasionally misgendered. He was always amused and never corrected the other person. He is not confrontational. Of course, when he opened his mouth and said something, they immediately realized their mistake and were acutely embarrassed.

Then again, perhaps one aspect of his amusement was his knowledge of my own trans-ness. Sometimes, when we went into a store or went out to eat, the server/clerk would say something like, "What can I get for you gentlemen?" It was always awkward for me because I didn't want to say anything and not sound like a guy.

Dominick, people do tend to make quick evaluations, and height is often an important element. But I know a trans man who is super short, and absolutely nobody doubts that he is male. It could be that with shorter guys, especially those who transition fairly young, it just takes longer for them to be read accurately 100% of the time. But your face looks awesome--you look exactly like a teenage boy to me.

If you're still frustrated about this--and most of us would be--do post a video (or at least a voice clip) and see what kind of feedback you get. Or share it privately with people by PM. One thing I do know--it's easy to miss little cues if you already accept the other person as male. I didn't go out of my way to analyze my friend until I realized that other people were still misreading him. Your own friends might be doing the same. But I still think that it's less stressful to just let the "passing" come in its own time rather than trying to eradicate any "feminine" characteristics you might have.

[Danielle]

I would also like to add, that growing up I worked at a 7-11 (convenience store) and I do remember accidentally using the wrong pronouns here and there. It had nothing to do with how the people looked either, I would just "get in the zone" where I was focusing on getting people rung up and out the door and I simply didn't pay attention to them. They were like cattle, and I would make eye-contact and have polite conversation, but rarely did an interaction engage my brain - it was all automatic.

Sometimes I would correct myself, and other times I would just let it go - it depended on whether it elicited any reaction from the person I was speaking with.

Arch, super-thoughtful posts! You rock!

[wheat thins are delicious]

I was just thinking having a friend there it would be easier b/c they can correct the person. And as once person said here once it's sometimes easier if you have a friend who will correct the person for you.  But maybe it's better coming from me instead.

You need to learn to advocate for yourself.  Speak up.  You need to especially as a trans person.

[Rock]

You look 100% male to me too.  I'm not a believer of the hieght thing myself.  As a 40 year old I've met alot of adult males my height or shorter.
I wonder about stance (Pre-top surgery and post-top can make a huge difference) and also wether your hips are broader than your shoulders.  Behind the head pull-ups and chin ups will help broaden the neck and shoulders.

When I was a teenager I was very andro and my gender was often confused.  Before I knew I could even get gender corrective sugery, I remember trying to convince someone I was a girl (LOL).  Anyway, she told me to stand up and put my feet together.  I did and she was then positive I was a girl.  I asked her why.  She said all girls legs taper in toward the feet.  I don't know how true that is but I have noticed it since with observation.  I now make sure I never stand with my feet together.   

[meh]

I feel your pain.

I am almost 1 year on T and still get misgendered.

I also get a lot of "Are you a boy or a girl?".

[Kreuzfidel]

I also get a lot of "Are you a boy or a girl?".

Do adults honestly ask people this question?  I can understand kids doing it (and by kids I mean age 12 max, most older than that should know better etiquette IMHO), but what kind of adult actually asks this?  I'm just appalled at the lack of tact and manners if people are asking this for real.

[Kyle_S]

   Do adults honestly ask people this question?  I can understand kids doing it (and by kids I mean age 12 max, most older than that should know better etiquette IMHO), but what kind of adult actually asks this?  I'm just appalled at the lack of tact and manners if people are asking this for real.

I've had an older woman (40's/50's) ask me this at work once. She is the only adult that's had the audacity to ask me that.

Dominick, I see absolutely NO female in you whatsoever.

[Arch]

   Do adults honestly ask people this question? 

Sadly, yes. But it's worse when they call you "it" or "that."

[schism]

Sadly, yes. But it's worse when they call you "it" or "that."

indeed.  rude questions or female pronouns are marginally better than being dehumanised. 

[Dominick_81]

@sneakersjay:

Maybe she assumed 'her' because you're short and didn't really get a look at you.

I was thinking that.

This is where your friend should have said Dominik's a guy.

I was waiting for him to say something and he was waiting for me to say something.

Yeah, laughing it off might be a good idea.

It's more difficult if you aren't passing; correcting people (that don't matter) just outs you and makes you stand out, which was worse IMO.  I dislike (okay HATE) outing myself.

I  agree.

@Arch: Oh wow, that sucks. I'm glad it was just a mis-reading. But I still don't get how people get into this zone and look at a male and still call him miss, I just don't get it. I would think you would immediately correct yourself if you said that wrong pronoun. I would anyways.

My ex, who is a little femmy, was occasionally misgendered. He was always amused and never corrected the other person. He is not confrontational. Of course, when he opened his mouth and said something, they immediately realized their mistake and were acutely embarrassed.

When I talk, people still don't recognize their mistake. My voice is not female, but it's not real deep either. I think it sounds male though.

Then again, perhaps one aspect of his amusement was his knowledge of my own trans-ness. Sometimes, when we went into a store or went out to eat, the server/clerk would say something like, "What can I get for you gentlemen?" It was always awkward for me because I didn't want to say anything and not sound like a guy.

I understand that.


Dominick, people do tend to make quick evaluations, and height is often an important element. But I know a trans man who is super short, and absolutely nobody doubts that he is male. It could be that with shorter guys, especially those who transition fairly young, it just takes longer for them to be read accurately 100% of the time.

Is 30 years old still young? To me that's not too young anymore.

But your face looks awesome--you look exactly like a teenage boy to me.

Thanks. Teenage boy, that's cool, takes a lot of years off my age, lol.

I think I might do a voice clip. I'll try to post that soon.

@Danielle: That's good to know.

@Andy8715: I know. I just haven't learned how to do that yet. I gota work on that.

@Rock: Stance? I'm not sure. I don't think I stand like a girl.

When I was a teenager I was very andro and my gender was often confused.

Same here. Mostly as a kid though.

I never put my feet together, I always have my feet apart. Doesn't seem natural to have my feet together. Thanks for the tip.

@meh: That sucks, I'm sorry. People don't ask  me if I'm a boy or girl, (I used to get that as a kid though) but now I think people can't tell that why a lot of time no pronouns are used at all.

[Sad Girl]

N-O-T-H-I-NG

Maybe only smoothness of the skin and no facial hair but many boys don't like keeping facial hair. It could be other factor as your boobs, hips or voice. But overall in the pic you look male at a glance and so passable.

[Arch]

Is 30 years old still young? To me that's not too young anymore.

Yes!!!!!!! Never underestimate the "reverse age effect" that so many FTMs face when they transition before forty.

Everybody is different, but so many guys I've seen who transitioned in their twenties AND thirties are read as teenagers or under twenty-one when they're early in transition. And, let's face it, a lot of teenage boys still look androgynous. That could be a deciding factor for some people who are misreading you.

One guy I know was out with his wife, and people thought he was her sixteen-year-old son. He's got to be pretty close to your age--thirtyish. My short friend, the one who is still misread sometimes, is now in his early thirties. I was out with him about eighteen months ago, and we ran into my regular doctor. We talked for a few minutes before he took off. I had an appointment with that same doctor a few weeks later, and he was curious about my friend's age. I said, "Thirty...thirty-one...something like that." He was surprised. He knows my age, so maybe he was wondering why I was hanging around with underage boys now! Another guy I know transitioned in his late thirties, and he still looks like he's in his mid-twenties. He's well into his forties now...must be forty-five. Looks twenty years younger.

And then there's me. My age is finally catching up with me. When I was earlier in transition, lots of people thought I was in my late twenties. I was forty-six, forty-seven. Now I'm routinely placed in my thirties, but I'll be fifty this year.

I can't quite wrap my mind around that. I spent so many years frozen in adolescence (in my head) that I don't know what age I am anymore. I'm pushing fifty, people think I'm maybe thirty-five, and I feel fifteen a lot of the time. Augh.

[Nygeel]

I will be at 15 months soon. I am misgendered at least 9 times out of 10. It makes me feel horrible. It gives me a whole lot of social anxiety and discomfort. I do not know why I am misgendered. It's super frustrating.

[Arch]

Have you done any videos lately, Nygeel?

[Nygeel]

Have you done any videos lately, Nygeel?

Indeedalee. I locked the video as private though, and based on videos people here can't figure Ou why I'm not seen as male.

[Dominick_81]

@Happy Girl: Thanks. It's not the breast. I bind and my jacket hides everything. I didn't speak until after she gave me my change back and  she called me "she" before she heard my voice.

@Arch:And, let's face it, a lot of teenage boys still look androgynous. That could be a deciding factor for some people who are misreading you.
That's a possibility. 

It's cool to take a lot of years off the aging, but it's a good thing and bad thing at the same time depending on the age.


Now I'm routinely placed in my thirties, but I'll be fifty this year.

Wow! That's cool! Your gonna be 50 and you don't look it. I hope when I turn 50 I don't look it either. See, that's where it's a good thing to look younger than older.

@Nygeel: I'm sorry. That totally sucks to be on T that long and not pass so much. Hopefully you'll start passing more soon.

[meh]

   Do adults honestly ask people this question?  I can understand kids doing it (and by kids I mean age 12 max, most older than that should know better etiquette IMHO), but what kind of adult actually asks this?  I'm just appalled at the lack of tact and manners if people are asking this for real.

I get this from kids and adults. >.>

Standing in line at a restaurant some old people were talking VERY loudly asking each other "Is that a boy or a girl?". One of them turns around, right in my face and turns back around and says "You just can't tell these days".  I was a little amused. My boyfriend was really pissed though.

[Kreuzfidel]

I get this from kids and adults. >.>

Standing in line at a restaurant some old people were talking VERY loudly asking each other "Is that a boy or a girl?". One of them turns around, right in my face and turns back around and says "You just can't tell these days".  I was a little amused. My boyfriend was really pissed though.

That exact exchange happened to me long ago - except I was at a servo and it was a young (country bumpkin) couple.

[Felix]

   That exact exchange happened to me long ago - except I was at a servo and it was a young (country bumpkin) couple.

Servo
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Servo may refer to:

    * Servomechanism, or servo, a device used to provide control of a desired operation through the use of feedback
          o Servo (radio control), a small, cheap, mass-produced actuator used for radio control and small robotics
          o Servo bandwidth
          o Servo control
          o Servo drive, a special electric amplifier used to control electric servomechanisms
          o Servo valve
    * SERVO Magazine, a monthly robotics publication.

Servo may also be:

    * Tom Servo, a fictional character from the television series Mystery Science Theater 3000
    * A fictitious multipurpose tool used by Gary Seven in the Star Trek episode Assignment: Earth
    * A Naval tool used to measure voltage
    * Servotronic, speed-dependent power steering
    * Australian slang term for a petrol station; a contraction of "service station"
    * A character in the television series Superhuman Samurai Syber-Squad
    * A non-playable character from computer game The Sims: Livin' Large
    * A playable character from the expansion pack The Sims 2: Open for Business
    * A song by The Brian Jonestown Massacre from the album Give It Back!
    * A defunct UK punk band

-----
I do have to say I've gotten the "you just can't tell these days" comments too often. Especially from out-of-towners and suburbanites who think our little urban area is NYC or Tokyo or something. Getting clucked at like I'm not there is unpleasant.