Transition for male privilege

[dalebert]

I have a lesbian friend who thinks this is rampant. I'm rather skeptical myself.

[Felix]

Y'know, that sounds so silly to me that if someone brought it up I wouldn't even try to argue with them. I'd just say yup that's why I'm doing it. Sure. Gimme some of that power. Whee. Wow, getting more respect is totally worth the surgeries and shots and court dates and weird sex life and confused family etc etc etc.

Well, that sarcasm is arguing, I guess. Still when people irl bring stuff like this up it usually means I'm not going to be able to communicate well with them anyway, and we'd best talk about the weather or something.

[wheat thins are delicious]

I have a lesbian friend who thinks this is rampant. I'm rather skeptical myself.

LOL yeah, she doesn't know what she's talking about.

[Lee]

"Sorry, I'm a little...rusty."  I was waiting for him to say "high." 

Anyways, it makes me wonder how much male privilege actually exists in our society now.  Maybe it's just because I know a lot of feminists, but I cannot think of a time when I have been held back in any way by being seen as female.  Other than in stereotypically chivalrous ways (holding doors, buying drinks, etc) it doesn't seem like i have been treated any differently than any other guy.

[King Malachite]

This makes me wish I could transition faster to see how people's attitudes would change towards me.  I don't think I would be gaining as much privliges but let see where it goes.

[Felix]

"Sorry, I'm a little...rusty."  I was waiting for him to say "high." 

Anyways, it makes me wonder how much male privilege actually exists in our society now.  Maybe it's just because I know a lot of feminists, but I cannot think of a time when I have been held back in any way by being seen as female.  Other than in stereotypically chivalrous ways (holding doors, buying drinks, etc) it doesn't seem like i have been treated any differently than any other guy.

Oh god. I'm going to assume you didn't grow up in Georgia or Alabama or Florida or Texas or Louisiana or Florida or Tennessee. Or tried to work in the construction industry. Or tried to work in the more male-dominated scientific fields. Are you sure you mean this? Even at fast food restaurants the girl employees are trusted less and babied more.

When I was a Single Mother (caps intentional), I was constantly criticized and given advice and being confronted with people who wanted to save me in one way or another. As a Single Father, I get told several times a week how awesome it is that I'm taking care of my kid, and what a good job I'm doing. When I'm angry or have strong opinions about something, people hear what I'm saying instead of calling me a b or asking if it's that time of the month. When I carry groceries, nobody stops to ask if I need help. If I'm walking around at night or in a bad neighborhood, nobody asks if I'm lost. Things have changed dramatically between being perceived as male or female for me, and I know it's subjective but I also know that when I don't pass, these changes reverse.

[caseyyy]

I sometimes think about the shift in privilege but that obviously isn't why I do it. I know of no ciswoman who would even be able to imagine changing her body and losing the characteristics she likes so much to be seen differently.

[Felix]

I sometimes think about the shift in privilege but that obviously isn't why I do it. I know of no ciswoman who would even be able to imagine changing her body and losing the characteristics she likes so much to be seen differently.

Yes. Social standing has the power to affect lots of things about a person, but one's core sense of self isn't something that can be bought, sold, or exchanged. Life isn't a video game.

[Devin87]

For me I don't see any privileges I'm gaining by transitioning.  In fact, I feel like I'm losing a lot of privileges.  When I present female, I feel like I can say things to males that would get me in a lot of trouble as a male.  I point things out and say things in a matter-of-fact way that, as a male, would either get me punched in the face or thought an ->-bleeped-<-.  I like to tease people.  As a female, I was a lot to get away with that and it's considered flirty and cute and sassy.  But as a male you can't say that stuff.  That was a serious consideration when I decided to transition because it's a big part of the way I interact with people.

Also, as a male I'm expected to do a lot more.  Now I feel guilty for not mowing the lawn even though I'm highly allergic to grass.  I feel like, as the only son, I should be doing that and not my 50-year-old mother or 55-year-old father with the bad back or my little sisters.  I also feel like I should be climbing on the roof to clean out gutters or take down Christmas lights even though I would never have been expected to go on the roof before and frankly, the thought terrifies me.  I also feel obligated to carry heavy things for my mother in stores or whenever she has something heavy and almost feel like people are judging me if they see an able-bodied young man NOT doing the heavy lifting for his mother.

So yeah, as of right now, I feel like I have a lot more privileges when presenting female than male.  I can say what I want to professors, bosses, etc and just be cheeky and fiery instead of disrespectful or an ->-bleeped-<-.  And I'm not expected to do as many chores and as much physical labor.  Sounds like privilege to me.

[Felix]

Devin I think maybe we just come from different environments. When I was growing up, girls were delicate and pure, but they still mowed the lawn and cleaned the gutters just like everyone else, at least until they got married. A girl teasing or being flirty or sassy wasn't the end of the world, but it wasn't respectable in adults or respectful in children. I'm very forward, but I never thought of it as flirtation or sass.

As an adult, I'm not exactly sure who would mow my lawn (lol not like I have one) if I were female and girls didn't do that kind of thing. I'm pretty sure girls can do that kind of thing just fine.

I feel you on the too many physical expectations in general though. I look like an able-bodied teenage boy, and I'm too embarrassed/proud/antisocial to tell people on buses and elsewhere that I'm riddled with scars and metal and plastic, and really not up for what a teenage boy is up for, or at least not for very long.

[Sharky]

Both female and male have their own set of privileges and problems.

[Felix]

Both female and male have their own set of privileges and problems.

Yay, Sharky. You're like the DJ bringing it back round again.

[Adio]

I can't watch the video right now, so I'm not sure whether he discusses this.  In the past, there have been women who presented as men for "male privilege".  To fight wars, get certain jobs, possibly escape being seen as a lesbian.  This is pretty ancient stuff.  However, I'm sure in certain countries women still "transition" for male privilege because of the oppression they face due to cultural or religious reasons.  I doubt this happens often enough to be considered a trend.  Of course, we know that trans men aren't women.  But the person making the argument probably doesn't see that distinction.  I don't know of anyone nowadays who has transitioned for any other reason than the fact that they are male.

I've actually lost some "privilege" from transitioning.  I work in a predominately "female" career.  This has affected my getting a job in the area I want to work in.  Even though it's illegal to discriminate based on sex/gender, I'm almost 100% positive I didn't get at least one of the jobs I interviewed for because I am male.  The way I look at it, you've gotta take the good with the bad.

[Natkat]

LOL, here transgender people have less right than cis-genders so maybe males have more privilegeds than female but female has more privilegeds than transguys, unless your one of those few who got surgery, and everything changed, but even if you do so your still opressed cause you get dignosed which will put some rights away from you, ex having children like adoption.

Luckely those kind of myth dosent really fit me cause of what I wrotte above and cause I would be more succesfull as female if I wanted too.
I mean who would give up being the "cool girl" for becoming what everyone think as "the sissy f***" dosent sound to give so much.

[Bishounen]

"Sorry, I'm a little...rusty."  I was waiting for him to say "high." 

Anyways, it makes me wonder how much male privilege actually exists in our society now.  Maybe it's just because I know a lot of feminists, but I cannot think of a time when I have been held back in any way by being seen as female.  Other than in stereotypically chivalrous ways (holding doors, buying drinks, etc) it doesn't seem like i have been treated any differently than any other guy.

You are indeed correct in your thoughts. Transitioning for Male Privilege is only workable in the East. In the West World, however, anyone that decides to transition into a male in the hopes that the would-be He would gain Social Privilege, is in for a rude awakening.

There exists no Male Privilege in the West World. In fact, legally speaking, Males have actually in several instances less juridic rights than females, and females are also often in many aspects Socially valued higher than males.
It is, for instance, very often regarded as more tragic if females have been victims in a Criminal event, and one just have to scroll through various Media outlets to see proof of this concept.
Not to mention, that violence against males on TV is considered Comedy.

This message is also kept alive in the World of Movies; The stereotypical scene where a female slaps a male in a bar or pours out her beer over him, and he says;"What the ->-bleeped-<-!?", the whole bar suddenly freezes and the males stands up and someone asks if the female is okay, while another tries to get the abused male to leave.

This actually happened fairly recently to the Husband of Mary J. Blidge, when the couple started arguing on a Night Club and she started to beat him up and punched him so that he actually started to blead.
The Result? He were the one that was thrown out of the Club.


That's the "Privilege" the transitioner will get.

The only way transitioning into a male for "Privilege" would work in the West World, would be if that person also becomes a Male Activist with a strong attitude, as Male activists, even female such, are quite on the rise nowadays, but it is certainly no guarantee for Social status.

[dalebert]

In the past, there have been women who presented as men for "male privilege".  To fight wars, get certain jobs, possibly escape being seen as a lesbian.  This is pretty ancient stuff.

This comment reminded me of the movie, Dragonslayer. I can't believe I can't find a decent trailer of it online. I guess it's too old. Great movie. Amazing effects for the pre-CGI era and still a good watch today IMHO.

[Hayzer12]

I have lived in TN my entire life, and I don't see that there are any more "privileges" for men than there are women. Yeah, some will treat women as if they are delicate, but trust me - if a woman allows the man to understand that she is not inferior, but equal and stands her ground then she will be treated as such. There will always be a level -from men- of thinking that women are inferior in physical strength, and this is - on average - is true. However, that being said, I know MANY women that are in high authority roles, work construction, and are given respect just as a man would be given.

It's a shame that even in today's society, many places make it to where a woman must PROVE that she is equal, rather than just automatically give her the same treatment. But there are also areas where men are treated as inferior to women(fashion industry, anyone?) and must prove otherwise. It just depends on what environment you strive in. We all have to prove something in our lives; why not let it be our aptitude, and the measure of which we can excel(for both men and women)?

I think the statement about transitioning because of male privilege is ridiculous. We all have privileges that others don't have; and vice versa. We just have to strive to make it better, and transitioning from FTM is not the way many would rather do it. Trust me, if I was a woman I would NOT be paying out the ass to transition to something just so I could feel like an equal in certain environments that I didn't.

[onep1ece7]

I agree with sharky, there are pros and cons to being male and pros and cons to being female...as a female I can go to a bar and get free drinks all night, If I go as male I have to pay for drinks all night, just small example...

[peky]

The allusion to the "shell" resonates with my own life experiences. I was forced to play the male role, and in doing so I always felt like a voyeur peering in an alien world with my female mind. Now I have been living as a woman for a few years, I feel that I am in my new shell peering at this also alien world of women with a female mind tainted by the many years of living like a man. Perhaps this lives me as neither truly female or male ! How can I benefit from it ?

Peky

[Squirrel698]

I have a different way of looking at this.

As a male I have found that I am given a lot more credit to be able to handle myself.  Devin might not carrying heavy boxes, but I personally love it.  Not only because I can feel how much stronger I am but also because it shows I can handle my own things.  This goes beyond lifting heavy objects into making decisions for myself.  Whereas when I was perceived as female others were also hoovering around trying to do things for me.   The sad thing is, I often did need that help because I couldn't lift that heavy box on my own.  Now I can and it's a fantastic feeling.  There is less chance of me being challenged on the things I say as well.  I still am but people take a moment to consider it longer then they use too. 

The other day I was at the grocery store and a little old lady came up to me and said, "Sir would you mind getting a box of dog food down for me?  Please?"  Of course I was happy to help her out.  She then said how kind I was and how much she appreciated the help.  So I walked away feeling really good about myself.

Is that male privilege?  After all it does mean more work for me.   Still others viewing me as someone who has the capacity to handle the world feels like a privilege to me.