TLGB

[Gretchen]

Why is it LGBT or GLBT why isn't it TLGB or TGLB? Is it because the T is riding on the coat tails of the LG political machine? I for one say TLGB when I happen to be talking about that subject and at times it really trips people up, it's almost as though I spoke in a foreign language.

[Constance]

I had been told that the L came first as a means to combat sexism/misogyny. That way, the L put women/females first.

I had been in the habit of just putting the letters in alphabetic order, with the B first and the T last. Originally, it was to put bisexuals first, as it had been my experience that bis were often disregarded by gays and straights alike. Now, I still keep things in alphabetic order, but it's so that I end up bracketing the group, as it were, since I'm bi and trans.

But, that's just my $0.02.

[King Malachite]

Not too sure on why the T is usually at the end but it does appear that we do get the short end of that stick.....at least in my area but isn't it actually LBGTQIA?  If so then at least we aren't technically last.

[Beth Andrea]

Why is it LGBT or GLBT why isn't it TLGB or TGLB? Is it because the T is riding on the coat tails of the LG political machine? I for one say TLGB when I happen to be talking about that subject and at times it really trips people up, it's almost as though I spoke in a foreign language.

Hopefully the LG community overall sees us as part of the "political machine", and not just as tag-alongs. There are individuals who think so, but I don't see that opinion as a major element.

That said, it doesn't matter to me one teensy leetle bit what order the letters are in. May I ask how "T" being in front affects your self-esteem or other things important to you?

[Beth Andrea]

Not too sure on why the T is usually at the end but it does appear that we do get the short end of that stick.....at least in my area but isn't it actually LBGTQIA?  If so then at least we aren't technically last.

Someone has to be last, in any order of lettering.

[Gretchen]

That said, it doesn't matter to me one teensy leetle bit what order the letters are in. May I ask how "T" being in front affects your self-esteem or other things important to you?

It doesn't, not one teensy leetle bit affect my self esteem. Is this post offencive to you? or are you reading into something that's not really there?

[Devlyn]

"someone has to be last" Not if you put the letters in a circle! Hugs, Devlyn

[King Malachite]

"someone has to be last" Not if you put the letters in a circle! Hugs, Devlyn

We should do that.   

[Asfsd4214]

Why is it LGBT or GLBT why isn't it TLGB or TGLB? Is it because the T is riding on the coat tails of the LG political machine? I for one say TLGB when I happen to be talking about that subject and at times it really trips people up, it's almost as though I spoke in a foreign language.

In my opinion, these kinds of terminology debates and semantics are exactly why so little positive political action gets done.

[lindsey26]

It is actually LGBTQQIA according to the main groups that associate and support people in this community

[Asfsd4214]

It is actually LGBTQQIA according to the main groups that associate and support people in this community

My point exactly...

[Gretchen]

It is actually LGBTQQIA according to the main groups that associate and support people in this community

I stand corrected.

[Beth Andrea]

It doesn't, not one teensy leetle bit affect my self esteem. Is this post offencive to you? or are you reading into something that's not really there?

No, I'm not offended. Just trying to understand your thoughts on the issue.

Am I "reading into something"? Well, let me see...here's what you wrote:

Why is it LGBT or GLBT why isn't it TLGB or TGLB? Is it because the T is riding on the coat tails of the LG political machine? I for one say TLGB when I happen to be talking about that subject and at times it really trips people up, it's almost as though I spoke in a foreign language.

First: Writing about which letter (meaning, which group) comes first, and suggesting that T should come first, indicates that you have a desire to have T be the primary focus of the LGBTQ-IDK-BTYVM alphabet.

Second: It appears that you think the T group is "riding on the coattails" of the LG machine, or that you are asking a rhetorical question. Do you think we're on coattails? Or, if rhetorical, for what purpose did you ask it?

Third: You mention you do say the T first, and that it trips people up, like you're speaking a foreign language. Why would you do this? (Speak in a way that confuses people)? It seems to me (imho) that deliberately speaking in a way that you know your audience won't understand is counter-productive to any political cause.

Again, I'm just curious.

[Gretchen]

Beth you are making this post way to over complicated.

Are we riding on the coat tails of the LG Community? This is not a rhetorical question Beth, I really am asking you your opinion and it's up to you whether or not you want to answer it.

Using the T first is not tool to confuse people, it is a statement. WE ARE HERE, I hope it makes people think. The repeal of DADT should include us too, along with a bunch of other issues that the LG community is heading.

So in closing for the night and in the words of the great man himself, Ricky Bobby: "If you aint first your last"

[Stephe]

Hopefully the LG community overall sees us as part of the "political machine", and not just as tag-alongs.

What I have seen is the T is disposable if the LGB team thinks including us will be ANY problem.

I ran into this when a straight guy on our local city council made a motion to include sexual preference AND gender identity into the city's anti discrimination clause for city employees. The one gay man on the council said he would NOT support gender identity being included but was all for the sexual preference part. He had 3 others on the council that regularly follow his lead. I cornered him during the break and he said "Don't worry, people like you are gay so you would be protected" O.o "Uh then why are you opposed to gender ID being included exactly then?" "It would just make passing this more difficult" was his response. I talked to the other council members and none of them had any issue with both if Brian (the gay guy) supported it. I had to call in the local gay media on this, suddenly this idiot did a 180 and supported both. It passed. I know the federal edna stuff dumped the T part at one point, not sure if we are back in that or not.

[Beth Andrea]

Are we riding on the coat tails of the LG Community? This is not a rhetorical question Beth, I really am asking you your opinion and it's up to you whether or not you want to answer it.

Oh. In that case, I thought I answered this in my first post:

Hopefully the LG community overall sees us as part of the "political machine", and not just as tag-alongs. There are individuals who think so, but I don't see that opinion as a major element.

That is, of course, referring to how the LG community sees us--if asking how we see ourselves, I'm not one to speak for the whole TG community.

How do I, as an individual, see our status? It is my opinion that there are more LGB people in the country than trans, and thus they have more money and influence. Yes, this means that we are "riding on their coattails." The LGB will, by definition, do the lion's share of the effort to secure civil rights. I am not opposed to the ordering of the letters "LGBTQ" because we really have nothing to gain by insisting the "T" go first in order and importance.

We must choose our battles.

[Padma]

Let's hear it for QUILTBAG!!!

[Pippa]

I have never understood why trans issues have been glued to the Lgbt agenda.  You are linking gender issues with issues of sexuality and they are not the same thing.  In fact many in the trans community have suffered as much maltreatment from the gay community as they have from the rest of the world.

[Julie Marie]

It should be T(LGB) because the T is the tie that binds.

Trans gender = crossing gender lines.  It occurs with L, G and B.  It is the one thing all have in common.

[Padma]

I don't think that's necessarily true. I know gay and lesbian folk who don't consider their sexual orientation to reflect at all on their sense of gender identity.

To my mind, LGBT got lumped together partly because of mutual experience of oppression, and partly because transsexuality has historically been sexualised as a concept (there are still plenty of people who assume all trans women want sex with men, for example), along with transvestitism.

We're all under the same umbrella even though we shouldn't be, but it's protecting us from the same spit.