Orchi before GCS/SRS or skip Orchi - current thoughts?

[Jeneva]

I know this has been discussed before, but it hasn't come up recently so I wanted to start something new to see if anyone's thinking had changed.

I do plan on GCS eventually, but because I chose to have FFS/BA I don't have any extra funds and it will be around 3 more years before I can afford it.  That is also assuming that stuff comes up between now and then that requires spending part of that savings, so I guess if I were extra lucky it could be as soon as two years.  I had not seriously considered getting an orchi before, but when I went to a new endo he seemed to think it would be a good idea for me to have one NOW.  He was going to find me someone local that would operate just on his and my say so even though I'm not "qualified" for letters yet.  I didn't get the impression that it was a health must do, but rather, why keep taking these pills if you don't have to so go do it.  I've got a therapist appointment later today so I will talk to her about it, but since he has said that it is dwelling on my mind.  I'd love to get GCS NOW, but I just can't afford it.  But I could easily afford an orchi from Dr. Arnkoff now.

For me from a pure financial standpoint it doesn't really make sense.  I pay a $5 copay for my spiro.  Yes it is possible that the insurance company will decided to deny coverage, but they haven't so far.  At $5 it would take a LONG time to break even with the ~$3k for an orchi.  I also know that most GCS surgeons say just wait because of that factor.  But haven't the GCS surgeons said that shrinkage isn't really a concern?  And even if it is, I'm ok with whatever depth is possible even if it is shallow.  So yes it would delay my GCS a bit more, but $3k isn't that much compared to the $30k I need to save for GCS.

So I'm asking from a free from spiro side effects and an almost total blockage of T is it worth it?  Some people claim to have new hair growth and loss of even more body hair when they have GCS or an Orchi.  Has anyone experienced this and would say it is real?  I don't need to take diuretics because of blood pressure, so it would help with how often I have to run to the restroom.  Mentally have people seen much change?

I'm really leaning toward doing it.  I feel like it would help my state of mind greatly.  I could also potentially change my SS and DL markers.  Both are technically supposed to require full GCS, but some people get away with it.  Of course some don't like the woman that was arrested in Morristown last fall/winter for protesting and taking off her top outside the drivers license place since they said she was male.

It is funny until he said that I hadn't really given it much thought at all, but now it is almost all I can think about.

[Beverley]

Surely it has nothing to do with money? It is about simplifying the drug regime and possibly increasing the effectiveness or any oestrogen because it no longer has to battle with T?

The fact that you cannot stop thinking about it says to me that you really want this. Also the ability to change the documentation is significant.

B.

[JenJen2011]

I thought about doing it several years ago but then opted not to in order to get the best results possible with SRS. I don't have much material to begin with so I'll just wait a couple more years.

[Jeneva]

I thought about doing it several years ago but then opted not to in order to get the best results possible with SRS. I don't have much material to begin with so I'll just wait a couple more years.

Wasn't there a recent quote somewhere on here from Dr. Bowers saying it didn't really make that big a difference in terms of shrinkage vs just blockers?

I didn't really have a lot to work with either and HRT has caused significant shrinkage already, but depth isn't as important a criteria for me since fingers tend to be smaller than other parts  .

[eli77]

But haven't the GCS surgeons said that shrinkage isn't really a concern?  And even if it is, I'm ok with whatever depth is possible even if it is shallow.

It's not so much shrinkage as scarring that is a concern. Orchie pretty much makes you ineligible for Suporn's technique. As for the rest, it depends. Might mean a skin graft from your thigh at worst.

So yes it would delay my GCS a bit more, but $3k isn't that much compared to the $30k I need to save for GCS.

$30k?! Who are you planning to go to? Brassard was $18k.

So I'm asking from a free from spiro side effects and an almost total blockage of T is it worth it?  Some people claim to have new hair growth and loss of even more body hair when they have GCS or an Orchi.  Has anyone experienced this and would say it is real?

Really depends on how effective the blockers are on you. But yes, I've noticed some changes post-SRS, but then I know that my T levels weren't right previously. So there aren't any guarantees.

I don't need to take diuretics because of blood pressure, so it would help with how often I have to run to the restroom.  Mentally have people seen much change?

Depends on the person. For me, I don't even feel perfect post-SRS, because I was looking to gain something rather than looking to lose something. I feel good 'cause it's over and I survived, but till I'm healed, I'm still going to be uncomfortable with what's between my legs.

If you feel like it's going to help keep you sane, I'd say do it.

[JenJen2011]

It's not so much shrinkage as scarring that is a concern. Orchie pretty much makes you ineligible for Suporn's technique. As for the rest, it depends. Might mean a skin graft from your thigh at worst.

Suporn already told me I will need a skin graft and I haven't had an orchie. If I weren't planning to have SRS for several years, I would do it but because I'm hoping to get it done in a year or two, I'll just put the money I'd spend on the orchie towards my SRS.

If you really want to get it done, I would just be sure and discuss it with the surgeon you plan on using. I know someone who had an orchie and then a couple years later had SRS with Bowers and is pleased with everything.

[Jeneva]

$30k?! Who are you planning to go to? Brassard was $18k.

Sorry that is partly my mistake.  I have to include travel and hotel costs in there so I was planning at least 23-25k (McGinn or Bowers).  When I started doing the math again I took my earlier savings goal and accidentally added the travel to it AGAIN.

McGinn is 18.5k and Bowers is more than that so Brassard is a touch cheaper, but I did mess up the math.

Wasn't there a recent quote somewhere on here from Dr. Bowers saying it didn't really make that big a difference in terms of shrinkage vs just blockers?

Found it, it was on her FAQ page.  "There are no great risks to orchiectomy (such as shrinkage or scarring) as proposed by some surgeons."

Depends on the person. For me, I don't even feel perfect post-SRS, because I was looking to gain something rather than looking to lose something. I feel good 'cause it's over and I survived, but till I'm healed, I'm still going to be uncomfortable with what's between my legs.

If you feel like it's going to help keep you sane, I'd say do it.

If you really want to get it done, I would just be sure and discuss it with the surgeon you plan on using. I know someone who had an orchie and then a couple years later had SRS with Bowers and is pleased with everything.

It isn't that I WANT it, but rather I can actually do it now.  I want GCS eventually, but barring something really big it will be 3 years before I can get enough saved.  It is a way for me to feel like I've moved forward another few steps even though I don't have enough saved for full GCS.

[Jeneva]

Well I think I'm going to do it.  My therapist wasn't concerned with that being "against" the rules especially since my new endo wanted me to get one soon.

Shannon is ok with the idea also, so I called Dr Arnkoff after a few emails from last week.  He said the letters wouldn't be a problem and he had the 21st open.  That works out as an awesome birthday present for me without interfering with our plans.  I'm going to fly up Friday night and then fly back on Sunday afternoon.  So it looks like
$2300 (his fee went up a bit since the site has been updated)
$550 (flight + hotel + rental car package)
$2800 + food.  So it will stay under $3k for sure.  Shannon wants me to have my GCS in the summer so she will be off from school to help out, so it doesn't really move my GCS date based on my current projections (funding done in June instead of March, but July 2015 my current target date).

[Jeneva]

Ok, I just got bumped to the 22nd.  I may be able to cut out the first night stay though so I'm waiting to hear more specific details before I book anything.

[Jeneva]

So final costs are going to be:
2300 - Dr Arnkoff's fee
305 - Delta (I HATE flying into Charlotte)
37 - Alamo compact
120 - Marriott  (Southfield)

$2770 + food and gas + airport parking at TRI

I wouldn't be doing this if I could afford GCS soon, but for under $3k I will at least be able to change my federal gender markers.  I MAY be able to change my drivers license (even if they don't like my letter I wonder if I can show my corrected passport).  And I can stop taking Spiro and maybe even Finasteride.

[Catherine Sarah]

Hi Jeneva,
I, myself am not a personal fan of orchi. Just seems to me to be a further complication in an already complicated process. So pay no attention to ideas.

However one suggestion I would make, that appears you may have over looked, is, what is the opinion of your preferred GCS surgeon? After all, they are the ones responsible for optimising the outcome of your transition. You probably wouldn't need to have that compromised in any way, shape or form.

As you have said, at $5.00 per month for Spiro there is actually a negative cost benefit ratio.

Hope all goes well for you.

Be safe, well and happy.
Lotsa huggs
Catherine 

[Jeneva]

I used to be planning on McGinn because it was closer to home (Shannon doesn't like to fly).

But Shannon's best friend from high school lives like 10 minutes from Dr. Bowers' new office.  She has been trying to get Shannon to come out for years and would be glad to let us spend a few weeks there (she has suggested it before).  Her husband's parents have money so they build them a huge gorgeous house so she has plenty of room.  I like that idea because then Shannon and the kids aren't just stuck in the middle of nowhere for a couple of weeks or longer (Disney/sightseeing in that part of CA/visiting with friends/swimming).

None of the GCS surgeons care for previous orchidectomy purely from the financial concerns, but Bowers has a FAQ entry that says there is no risk to GCS either.  My total costs that could potentially be lost are actually $10 a month since I also have a prescription for Finasteride in addition to the Spiro.  At $10 a month it would take a very long time from a pure financial standpoint, but there are other health concerns (which trump money).

But I have anxiety and depression issues and Finasteride is potentially worsening those.  I'm also prone to dizzy spells (low blood pressure) when I'm not stressed enough to raise my blood pressure and Spiro doesn't help that.  There is also a chance that losing both the Spiro and Finasteride 3 years earlier may have an impact on my future health (reduced liver damage potential and no more potassium level monitoring).  I have hope that the complete loss of T will help spur head hair growth and slow body hair growth.

Unfortunately I live in a fairly backwards US state (TN) and I may or may not be able to change my gender marker on my license (it isn't clearly spelled out in the law so the clerks make a judgement call).  I will be able to change my gender marker on my federal government IDs though.  I'm wondering if I bring in a passport with a F to my DL place if they won't change the marker just because a passport trumps all other ID.

[Catherine Sarah]

Hi Jeneva,

Based on what you've said. GO FOR IT, girl. But PLESE be aware, I'm absolutely  ... g r e e n .... with envy, over your choice of surgeons. As you no doubt are aware, Melody had her "DAY' last February with Dr. Bowers, and everything went like clockwork.

My choice is down to a two horse race, with a hair on the nostril difference between Dr. Bowers and Dr. McGinn. I'll have to come over later this year and meet both.

Hope it all goes well for you later this month, then. Keep in touch.

Be safe, well and happy.
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

[Tristan]

i did the orchi at the end of feb. and will have the SRS at end of Jan. if i knew i would be having SRS so soon i would have just held out. i do like not taking all those meds though

[Shantel]

I got tired of assaulting my system with excessive meds and opted for an orchiectomy so that I could cut out the Spironolactone which I thought gave me a sort of strange body odor anyway. The urologist I picked was TG friendly and had huge experience and big creds with the trans community on the west coast. He gave me a local and they were out in 41 minutes start to finish and I was headed back home. He used a single scrotal incision and was careful not to disrupt the package excessively in order to leave the most scrotal tissue in the event I would have SRS later on as that is used to create the outer labia. Piece of cake! I recommend it because the feminizing comes much more quickly without them.

[Michelle G]

I got tired of assaulting my system with excessive meds and opted for an orchiectomy so that I could cut out the Spironolactone which I thought gave me a sort of strange body odor anyway. The urologist I picked was TG friendly and had huge experience and big creds with the trans community on the west coast. He gave me a local and they were out in 41 minutes start to finish and I was headed back home. He used a single scrotal incision and was careful not to disrupt the package excessively in order to leave the most scrotal tissue in the event I would have SRS later on as that is used to create the outer labia. Piece of cake! I recommend it because the feminizing comes much more quickly without them.

Just what I was wanting to hear In a personal experience, I have been considering that for awhile now, curious to see how the subtle changes timeline is going to be in your situation

[Ms. OBrien CVT]

I had my orchiectomy in 2009.  I don't think I have had much shrinkage.  I am not sure when I will have SRS, but the orchi has been a godsend.

[Diane Elizabeth]

               I am considering getting an orchi since I don't see GRS in the near (or distant) future for me.  As usual, its a money thing.  I think I can get the VA to do my orchi, if I tell a fib or two, for dirt cheap.  I had surgery last year on my neck and it cost less than $1500.  what a deal!  Anyway this discussion has helped me with the ins and outs of surgery.  thanks.

[susanewing]

I had an orci and could not be more pleased. Estrogen shots now work without T or other chemicals. Mentally losing my boys has been outstanding because they are really the center of maleness. Clothes fit better as I have a small penis and now with no boys I can wear woman's clothes without an obvious bulge. Of course it is up to your doctor and therapist if it is right for you. Dr. Bowers says the is no problem with my SRS next year. It is very likely you can get your legal documents changed because an orci is "irreversible genital surgery". I already have all mine changed, even my birth certificate. An orci withDr. Bowers only requires HRT, living full time and a letter from your therapist, not a RLT. Although I have will have SRS next year, I am already functioning as woman and have no male thoughts. Losing my boys has really had an extremely positive effect on me; girls do not have testicles.

Susan

[Michelle G]

I had an orci and could not be more pleased. Estrogen shots now work without T or other chemicals. Mentally losing my boys has been outstanding because they are really the center of maleness. Clothes fit better as I have a small penis and now with no boys I can wear woman's clothes without an obvious bulge. Of course it is up to your doctor and therapist if it is right for you. Dr. Bowers says the is no problem with my SRS next year. It is very likely you can get your legal documents changed because an orci is "irreversible genital surgery". I already have all mine changed, even my birth certificate. An orci withDr. Bowers only requires HRT, living full time and a letter from your therapist, not a RLT. Although I have will have SRS next year, I am already functioning as woman and have no male thoughts. Losing my boys has really had an extremely positive effect on me; girls do not have testicles.

Susan

Very encouraging...thanx!