Afraid of Cis People?

[Kelly J. P.]

 Allo.

In my present life, I find that I'm 'afraid' of cis people. What I mean by that is that, generally, I find difficulty in talking to them - especially cis girls my age. Guys I don't find I want to talk to very often... so I'm unsure if it's easier for me to talk with them.

I imagine other people experience something similar here. The reason for it was probably how I grew up: Pretty alone, feeling judged by everyone, making friends only with loners and suiciders, that sort of thing.

... these days, I'm amazing at making friends with trans people. I feel that I can trust them, and I don't feel judgement from their eyes... and around them, I'm extremely outgoing and extroverted.

But when it comes to cis people, I can only imagine how they are thinking of me - how they are dissecting me in their minds. I don't say much to them - and not purely out of shyness. I think that if I could think of any words to say, I would be able to say them. But alas, I cannot.

My solution to the problem has thus far been to let them initiate if I'm to have a cis friend. If I don't get any friends like this I would be happy - or at least, this was the case until recently.

I find myself sorely disappointed in my fear of cis people. 'Just getting out there and doing it' isn't really something I'm willing to do - I think it would be easiest if I could put myself into a situation where I would be strongly encouraged to interact; preferably one where the people are likely to be open-minded.

I pass well, but somehow... I still feel their eyes burrowing into my skull a lot of the time. This could be merely my insecurity, and my own self-esteem and self-image.... but I prefer to think that it also involves my history.

Any suggestions on how to deal with it? If I'm justified or not?

Thanks for reading. 

[Edge]

I don't know about being afraid of cispeople specifically, but I can relate to being afraid of people.
For me, I'm afraid of people who claim to be "different" because they are the cruelest people I have ever met. When I talk to them, I keep anticipating when they are going to hurt me. I keep thinking about what they must be thinking about me. I know it's paranoid and weak and I hate myself for it, but I can't ignore the fact that it has happened so many times before.
The only solution I have heard so far is to just put yourself out there. To practice ignoring it. To talk to people despite it.

[Renee D]

I'm not. I'm actually a bit more comfortable around cis people than I am trans.  I don't feel like I'm being compared to anyone when I'm around cis people either, but I do around many trans people I've been around. Plus, any conversation is pretty much not going to be anything trans related and I kind of like that.

[Jamie D]

Any suggestions on how to deal with it? If I'm justified or not?

I think it boils down to confidence. I saw somewhere a poster who wrote, "...don't let a few sour apples be representative of the whole barrel."

Don't be owned by your fears.

(Except maybe spiders. Good things to avoid.)

[Renee D]

I think it boils down to confidence. I saw somewhere a poster who wrote, "...don't let a few sour apples be representative of the whole barrel."

Don't be owned by your fears.

Definitely.  I kind of forgot to offer my thoughts on what she could do.  I know that staying away from situations with them does not help as your mind can come up with all sorts of stuff.  Its best to just put yourself out there and after a bit, it should get better as you gain confidence and stop being so anxious.

The best thing I ever did for it was to get a job working with the public.

[Kelly J. P.]

 Thanks for the responses...

@Edge: I'm pretty paranoid, yes. Thanks for understanding... hope that if I find something that works, that it might help you too.

@Jamie D: My rebuttal might be that the majority of apples I have met have been sour - the sweet portion of my barrel is the minority. However, when they are sweet... they are exceptionally good.

... but yes. I still seek those super-yummy ones.

@Jaime: I did say in my post that I was looking for alternatives to 'just doing it'. I realize that it's a silly request - I doubt I'll find any alternative suggestions... a job working with the public is definitely what I was looking for, suggestion-wise. There are many different jobs like this though - I still have yet to go to college (still pretty young) so any job like that I could get would be, like past jobs, more like processing people, treating them with formalities and small talk and the like. It was mostly good, but it was hardly anything like real socializing.

Thanks again ^.^

[MacKenzie]

  Have you considered that you might have social anxiety disorder? Lots of people suffer from social anxiety and never seek treatment out of fear or even think it will fix it's self. Maybe talking to therapist who deals with anxiety issues would be helpful, that and maybe some medications for anxiety & depression would help.

[Renee D]

The store I work at is in a small community, but it also serves an area with only one road in and out other than a long ferry ride, so I see a lot of people, most of them regular and have actually gotten to make some friends through work. I've gotten to be more of a part of the community and with so many people knowing everyone else, there is more than just small talk and formalities. Honestly, I don't think I would have done so well in a larger city as compared to here. 

You do have to learn how to make people comfortable around you though and I'm not sure how to explain that so well.

And yes, there is some risk of being treated like crap, I dealt with that too. But those have learned that they aren't going to gain anything by it and actually looked like straight up ->-bleeped-<-s in front of others as well.  The main thing it took on my part was a good attitude, politeness and trying not to react negatively to them.

but yeah, if you want things to change, you have to just do it and take the chances. 

[Dana_H]

  Have you considered that you might have social anxiety disorder? Lots of people suffer from social anxiety and never seek treatment out of fear or even think it will fix it's self. Maybe talking to therapist who deals with anxiety issues would be helpful, that and maybe some medications for anxiety & depression would help.

This is me. When I was growing up, everyone just thought I was shy. As it turns out, I have social anxiety.  I have difficulty interacting with other even if I know them. I have a hard time making phone calls. Sometimes I have to really work myself up before I can dial. Sometimes even hitting send on an email is difficult. I definitely recommend talking with a therapist to figure out what is going on because if it is social anxiety it will not go away on its own.

Actually, posting on Susan's is a little like therapy for me in this respect. It helps that there are so many wonderful people here; as scary as it is for me to participate sometimes, I've never felt unwelcome or outcast.

[Kelly J. P.]

  Have you considered that you might have social anxiety disorder? Lots of people suffer from social anxiety and never seek treatment out of fear or even think it will fix it's self. Maybe talking to therapist who deals with anxiety issues would be helpful, that and maybe some medications for anxiety & depression would help.

I have thought about it, but haven't quite pictures it as likely. I'm extroverted around most trans people these days - if I had SAD, I would be anxious around everyone I think... not just cis people.

Anxiety/depression I consider very likely. I have heard many terrible things about anti-depressants though.

I'm seeing someone next week about this stuff...  hopefully she'll be useful, unlike any of the other doctors in the area. My psych is as affective as trying to do Kendo with a wet noodle.

@Jaime: I'll see if I can find some sort of group. I don't live in a small enough community to have regular customers that actually talk to service... sounds like a nice place.

I was pretty good. Customers didn't get to me... it was the co-workers that made me cry for hours. :p

@ Dana: I definitely know the phone thing, in addition to some of the other stuff. Except, I'm usually good at getting along with people I've known...

[MacKenzie]

 @ Dana - Yeah me too, i've been on a low dose of Celexa for my anxiety & depression and it does help alot. The first week or two when your body is adjusting to the meds is the only bad part.

     I had really bad insomnia from the meds. 

[Juliet]

I think its great that you're aware you have this issue and want to do something to fix it.  Based on those two things alone I'm willing to bet that you'll have it taken care of in the near future

[Kelly J. P.]

 Thanks for the faith.

I'll have to hope that it's well-placed... I'm coming up with ideas.

[Rubberneck]

I'm not bigoted against normal people. I afraid of all people

[Seyranna]

I don't know why you mention cis people this is merely regular S.A.D. and lack of confidence.

For me it's the other way around. I only have cis friends I don't see myself befriending other trans because it's like "hey you have cancer and I have cancer OMG let's hang out together!"  I just don't hang out in LGBT spaces for the most part and I'm not comfortable around unpassable trans women. So I guess you could say that I'm a transphobic trans <.<

[supremecatoverlord]

For me it's the other way around. I only have cis friends I don't see myself befriending other trans because it's like "hey you have cancer and I have cancer OMG let's hang out together!" 

Agreed. At least in real life, anyway.

[Dana_H]

@ Dana - Yeah me too, i've been on a low dose of Celexa for my anxiety & depression and it does help alot. The first week or two when your body is adjusting to the meds is the only bad part.

     I had really bad insomnia from the meds. 

I'm on Wellbutrin myself. Boy, I can sure tell when I miss a day.

[Sephirah]

Sorry for poking my nose in here, but there are a few things I've picked up from what you've talked about.

I have thought about it, but haven't quite pictures it as likely. I'm extroverted around most trans people these days - if I had SAD, I would be anxious around everyone I think... not just cis people.

I think this is more likely the case. I'm inclined to say that it's not social anxiety, in the traditional sense. Mainly because only selective portions of society make you anxious, while others give you no issues whatsoever.

I think it's more that the 'cis' part is more prevalent in your mind than the 'people' part. That you've associated that tag with something, something which causes you to have these feelings. And it's something which your mind picks up on immediately upon meeting someone, which in turn leads to a defense mechanism that you created based on your past eperiences. Namely: fear. And fear can lead to all sorts of things. For example your body language, and the way you are with those people because of this... it can be a symbiotic relationship of a sort, because folks often pick up on the slightest little cues that the person themselves aren't even aware they're doing. Like... hmm... intentionally closing yourself off, perhaps, or seeming withdrawn because you're afraid. Generally not being the bubbly, sparkling personality that you know is there. And that in turn may affect how people react, which may reinforce the way you feel, and it becomes a cycle.

The reason it's different with trans people is because you feel at ease, you feel free to express yourself and be yourself, and because of this, the reactions you get are more open, maybe warmer, you know? Because just as you feel at ease with trans folks, you make it possible for them to feel at ease with you. Often the other party in an encounter may have their own feelings of anxiousness. So any encounter with another person becomes a dynamic thing, playing out as a two-way process with both taking cues from the way the other is behaving and expressing themselves.

In order to get past this, I think that maybe it's a good idea to re-assess if the defense mechanism which causes you to feel fear is necessary anymore, by understanding where it came from, the circumstances at the time which first led to this, and seeing if those circumstances still apply to you. Hopefully this is something you'll be able to work through with the person you're going to see. Often, a change in perspective and a re-evaluation of your feelings from a different time in your life is a good start to making progress in dealing with it. The mind often falls back on tried and tested methods of protecting itself from hurt, even if those methods are outdated. Because it doesn't know any better.

I probably shouldn't say too much more because it's not really appropriate to base something like this on a few forum posts. I really hope that you're able to work through this, hon, and that when you do talk to someone who can get to know you better and 'get inside your head', as it were, that you find a way between you to resolve the way you feel. *big hug*

[Kelly J. P.]

 That all seems about right...

About the assessment part, though, I can't really say that I'm sure I could even make the call as to whether I need to defend myself anymore or not. My experiences with people had not been positive the majority of the time while I was growing up... and the transitional phase between male and female only saw a little more negativity, in regards to social relations.

I would not blame that negativity on trans stuff, either. As far as I know I did a very good job of blending in as a male throughout most of my school years - interestingly, the ones where I had the least trouble were the ones where I was being myself.

So... I have very little context to base a new judgement on. It comes down to needing to meet new people, in the end, in order to convince myself that I no longer have to be on the defensive. I've met many, many good people, and so I'm actually pretty okay with relating to older (30+) individuals - I have only rarely been treated poorly by that crowd. My problem is mostly relating to people within and around my age group, as I tend to get along with this category of people very rarely.

I have a new tool or two, since I first posted this topic, to deal with the issue. One being a lovely dream I had this morning... one that I'm very sad that I had to leave! A large part of what's at play is my security, and generally how I feel about myself. A large part of the fear is fear of judgement - not for being trans, as I'm very confident in my passability - but just general judgement of how I act, dress, sound, etc.

That fear is pretty long-standing, and at one point it was very justified. It may still be... but I don't know just yet.

Thank-you Sephirah. Very much. ^.^

[MacKenzie]

For me it's the other way around. I only have cis friends I don't see myself befriending other trans because it's like "hey you have cancer and I have cancer OMG let's hang out together!"  I just don't hang out in LGBT spaces for the most part and I'm not comfortable around unpassable trans women. So I guess you could say that I'm a transphobic trans <.<

  Lol I'm the same way! 

  @Sephirah I have to disagree, SAD is not confined to being anxious around all people, people with SAD can have more anxiety issues around certain individuals or certain groups of people or even certain numbers of people. I'm not a doctor but it's obvious that Kelly has some kind of anxiety issues wether it's SAD or just general anxiety.