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Singing Voice?

Started by veritatemfurto, March 01, 2012, 08:22:21 PM

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veritatemfurto

This may be an odd question coming from someone like me, but has anyone ever tried to take their normal voice and rework it into a voice that can sing the high notes?

I mean, I've had my voice in the right range since I started a decade ago, and I used to be able to sing to most of the chick tunes back then, but now all these years later I find myself wanting more than just the normal everyday voice... hate to say it but i think I sound horrid trying to hit the high notes now  :embarrassed:

so is it just a case of having gotten lazy with it and having to re-learn the whole voice thing all over again, or is there something else? how would you do it?



On a side note, has anyone that can hit the high notes ever had fun with it and sung a solo-duet in both the male and female lyrics?
~;{@ Mel @};~

My GRS on 04-14-2015


Of all the things there are to do on this planet, there's only one thing that I must do- Live!
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pretty

I really want to work on my singing voice but I can't sing loud here so it is hard. But even then I can get up into mezzo-soprano range with some warming up. But I am not a really veteran singer or something and it probably sounds very falsetto-y.

I know it's definitely possible since some MTFs have done it well though. Like, you mentioned singing both parts:



But it's very tough so it is easy to get discouraged  :icon_cute:
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apple pie

Hi there,

I'm not sure why you think it's an odd question! A lot of us would love to sing.

I can assure you it's definitely possible to sing like a girl. I practise it regularly myself, and while I don't really have the range of genetic girls (and probably never will!), I'm fairly confident in saying that I do generally, even if not perfectly, sound like other girls when I sing (which is what you'd want, right?) within my girl-voice range. I don't do the "singing both parts" thing though because I hate my male voice!

There is very little material on how to do it, though, it seems, in contrast to how to sound female when talking. It is still a matter of resonance, of course, since male singers singing very high still sound very masculine (and even sexy - I actually like to hear them sing high!), but as I'm sure you know already, even having a perfectly female-sounding speaking voice doesn't really translate into a female-like singing voice!

I myself like to sing male songs that aren't too low (moderately to fairly high guy songs work well) with a girl voice, which in my opinion would help in getting a female-like resonance when singing. I use a voice that's probably what people call "head voice" when singing, but I do have a break at a similar pitch to other guys (and girls!), near which I have to switch between two voices... I'm not sure how to describe the two, though, as they aren't really the difference between chest and head voices or falsetto. I sing low to moderately high female songs as well, but relatively high ones are quite possibly not where you should start from!

It's not going to be easy, of course, but keep in mind that it's not impossible, have a go at singing and keep practising! I don't come to these forums much any more, but you can PM me if you are really interested in singing, and I'll see if I can try to help! ;) (I seldom sing songs in English though!!)

apple pie
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luna nyan

Hello Verita,

There are changes in the human voice with age.  I found this article of interest:
http://www.heathermaclaughlin.com/wp-content/uploads/topics/Agingvoiceprint.pdf
It's got a few little exercises that may help.

As the voice is a muscle, sadly, it's very much a case of use it or lose it.  With careful training it's possible to retrain and gain some range, but ultimately you are still limited by the actual size/thickness of your vocal chords.  Be very cautious in extending range upwards - forcing it will damage your voice, possibly irreparably.  It's not impossible, I would suspect that looking at counter-tenor techniques might be a way to start - gain range slowly, and then rework the timbre and resonance - I wouldn't recommend trying to deal with both at the same time.

I miss my prepuberty voice - I had range all the way up to F6 and am very sad that I've lost a lot of the flexibility that I once had. :(
Drifting down the river of life...
My 4+ years non-transitioning HRT experience
Ask me anything!  I promise you I know absolutely everything about nothing! :D
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Assoluta

I'll share an MTF persective on this...

Of course, the MTF voice does not change on HRT and has to be changed by the user. When I changed my speaking voice, I simply raised my voice into falsetto, lowered it to a reasonable tone and started from there. To me, it was no more difficult than this to get started. Of course at first it was breathy and would sometimes 'drop' and speaking louder was a challenge - but this simply came with increased 'exercise' of using my voice in this register. I am not attempting to show how 'good' I am - I believe that anyone can do this - and even though my young age does help, I have seen older people able to master it well. To me it is far simpler than having session after session of voice therapy, although I imagine it can be an aid to use alongside self-practice.

Perhaps the reason for my perspective is my singing background. Pre-transition, I was classified by my singing teacher as a baritone (between tenor and bass singing voices, so certainly not a high male voice). I am now classified as a contralto/mezzo soprano (meaning I can sing in the lowest female range up to the medium high range, although not the highest soprano range). This came initally from being able to strengthen my upper "falsetto" range, which like most male voiced people at first, sounded breathy and weak (try singing a song from an average female singer, if you are mtf, and you will know what I mean).  However, what I found to be a great benefit were the lessons learned from singing - that is, to develop head reasonance to strengthen the upper range. Now I do NOT sing in falsetto, that breathy soft sound at all. What I sing in for the high range is 'head voice' which has vocal chord closure and is not breathy at all. This sounds like vague 'singing-speak' so to put it in clearer terms, it means to focus the voice 'up' into the head (difficult to explain without showing it) but the best way to explain it is to pretend to impersonate an opera singer and the tone they use when singing. When you try this, with practice, you will 'feel' how the voice can resonate more clearly in a higher tone. It also comes from 'support', that is to support your voice with your diaphragm, and breath control, which means a controlled releasing of breath when you speak/sing. The way to actually do this I compare to almost holding your breath - in particular when you sing a long note (or you can try sounding a long note in speech) sound it whilst almost trying to hold as much breath in as possible - like holding your breath. Of course some breath will come out as you are using your voice, but if you try as much as you can to 'hold your breath', you will find that you have a much less breathy quality to your voice, and in the case of singing, be able to hold notes much longer and maintain more control over tone, vibratto, quality etc.

I found that eventually I astonished myself with how loudly I could sing upper tones - which I had previously thought would be impossible. There are some limitations - my upper range will never be as strong sounding as my lower range (modal voice) although I have been told my lower range is particularly strong. However, I have made the most of this and realised that instead of trying to speak/sing like any other female, I would make the most of the uniquness of my voice to produce a sound which is androgynous - using a thick strong lower register with a purer upper register of voice. I have also found mixed voice a great way to sing much higher pitches strongly and with little effort - it comes by using the gentler head voice and almost bringing a bit of the chest voice back into it (almost 'shouting into' the head voice with control).

I highly recommend singing for people interested in voice - I feel I have come a long way in 5 years in terms of voice and still have much room for further improvement (particularly in singing) looking forward. I hope that you will find that speaking and singing in a higher and/or more feminine register is entirely possible (I thought it would be impossible for me to realistically sing like a mezzo soprano without sounding like the bee gees).

Below are three songs I have sung using a variation of registers - I have made the most of the fact that my voice is different from other females, and hence I do not concentrate on making my voice sounding perfectly female, but instead sounding androgynous, as voices where you can't quite tell the sex of the singer have always fascinated me. It seems, however, that my voice 'passes' when singing, although it has masculine elements to me, which is fine, as some famous female singers have masculine sounding voices.

A good song to start with which is quite easy to sing is 'Je ne regrette Rien' as I sing here:

Claudia - Je ne regrette Rien at South Bank (I had a cough here hence the voice almost cracking near the end!)

This song makes the most of my trans voice - the higher register, but also some very low notes that would be impossible for 99% of genetic females (especially ones my age)

Claudia - SOS Sous un terrien en détresse

And finally, a song in the upper register, mainly using head voice - such a way of singing can be achieved by gradual increased use of the upper register so the voice becomes 'used' to it and singing becomes comfortable.

クローディア - 恋人よ (五輪真弓)

Also as a final note, I leave you with Zarah Leander - showing how low and strong the female voice can be!


It takes balls to go through SRS!

My singing and music channel - Visit pwetty pwease!!!:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kibouo?feature=mhee
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Rory

I had been wondering about this, too.

Great info and links, Assoluta!!
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apple pie

Hey Assoluta, all your singing is very impressive!! And you have a really wide range!
I've loved that third song since I was young... good to hear you sing it! :)

I have been practising singing a lot at home too, but I haven't had any singing lessons like Assoluta, and nowhere as long as 5 years!
For me, sounding female is very important. I don't want to just sound androgynous...
But I think my voice sounds more feminine when low. That means I tend to sacrifice a high pitch to keep it feminine-sounding by singing generally low-pitch songs or male songs.
In fact, I love singing male songs in a female voice :P

As for voice registers, I've never had a very usable falsetto (it's very weak and completely untrained), so I don't use it at all.
So I sing in chest / head voices (and work very hard at blending the transition between the two!!), though when I talk, I talk in chest voice generally (around 80% to 100% of the time) as in another thread I replied to a couple of weeks or so ago, unless I'm in a noisy environment and need to project my voice.

Here are samples of my singing...

The first one is a male-singer song that I sang in a female voice (no accompaniment)
http://picosong.com/wqYf

The second one is another male-singer song but transposed upwards to suit where my voice is the strongest
http://picosong.com/wqYj

The third one is a short female-range little tune from the opening of a Doraemon movie :P
http://picosong.com/wqYU

And they are all lower than Assoluta's singing!
As you probably will agree, I think the lower I go, the more feminine my voice is... so I generally sing low!
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Fairy In Boots

While proper training can give some great high ranges to testosterone-thickened chords (both trans and cis, alike), personally, some of my favourite women singers have been altos:  Christine McVie (Fleetwood Mac), (Propaganda, ACT, OneTwo, solo), Annie Lennox, Nina Hagen, Siobhan Fahey (Bananarama, Shakespeare's Sister, solo), Amanda Lear....

Gorgeous, gorgeous voices.
Sex: FTM
Gender: Epicene
Sexuality: Phallocentric
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V M

Being the lead singer in a few top forty bands years ago I had to be able to switch voices

Some of the female vocals would be difficult and took some practice then, but now these days however it has become easier to sing the female voiced songs and has become difficult for me to produce the male voices that use to be so easy for me

The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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pidgeontoed

This conversation reminds me of a video one of my friends showed me a few weeks ago. Not transgendered, but a source of jealousy for myself at least (ok, we'll say "inspiration" to keep it positive...) He shows quite a bit of vocal control among a very nice range, not sure of his background, but it seems that with practice, this can be done.

"Playing things too safe is a popular way to fail... dying is another way."
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Assoluta

Quote from: apple pie on April 01, 2012, 07:54:10 PM
Hey Assoluta, all your singing is very impressive!! And you have a really wide range!
I've loved that third song since I was young... good to hear you sing it! :)

I have been practising singing a lot at home too, but I haven't had any singing lessons like Assoluta, and nowhere as long as 5 years!
For me, sounding female is very important. I don't want to just sound androgynous...
But I think my voice sounds more feminine when low. That means I tend to sacrifice a high pitch to keep it feminine-sounding by singing generally low-pitch songs or male songs.
In fact, I love singing male songs in a female voice :P

As for voice registers, I've never had a very usable falsetto (it's very weak and completely untrained), so I don't use it at all.
So I sing in chest / head voices (and work very hard at blending the transition between the two!!), though when I talk, I talk in chest voice generally (around 80% to 100% of the time) as in another thread I replied to a couple of weeks or so ago, unless I'm in a noisy environment and need to project my voice.

Here are samples of my singing...

The first one is a male-singer song that I sang in a female voice (no accompaniment)
http://picosong.com/wqYf

The second one is another male-singer song but transposed upwards to suit where my voice is the strongest
http://picosong.com/wqYj

The third one is a short female-range little tune from the opening of a Doraemon movie :P
http://picosong.com/wqYU

And they are all lower than Assoluta's singing!
As you probably will agree, I think the lower I go, the more feminine my voice is... so I generally sing low!

I'm amazed you know "Koibito yo" - I thought nobody here would know that song - are you Japanese, or do you just know Japanese like me?

I'd actually say your last song in the higher range sounds the most feminine - you have a remarkably cute sounding anime song voice. Also, I'd say that you are using a form of mixed voice without realising it - your voice isn't in full chest voice, as it would sound 'harsher' like I sing in the first of my song links. It's hard to 'project' in mixed voice, although you have quite a good mixed voice for lower volumes. Your first link sounds more gender neutral.

However, more than anything, it's the resonance and quality of voice rather than pitch - Pavarotti sings high as a tenor, but nobody would say he really sounds like a woman, whereas Nancy Sinatra (particularly in Bang Bang, the theme song to Kill Bill) sings much lower, but in a sexy, sultry, and definitely feminine voice.

Also, I'll say that once you get 'mixed voice' at a lower volume, you can work on projecting it louder and it's a great technique to use for shouting or projecting your voice at a higher pitch rather than sounding more masculine when getting louder.

It takes a lot of experimenting - I've been singing and playing round with voice for around 5 years, and taken lessons for a total of about 2 years...and still learning a lot!
It takes balls to go through SRS!

My singing and music channel - Visit pwetty pwease!!!:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kibouo?feature=mhee
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