Sex and disclosure: Morality in a different culture

[Anonymouse1]

So I've been post-op for a decade -- nearly all of my adult life.  I started transitioning as a teenager.  I was one of the youngest patients ever of Dr. Meltzer at the time of my surgery.  I had also been with my spouse -- a woman who I started dating right before I came out as trans, and who had fully accepted me -- until late last year.  After the fourth time of being cheated on, and nearly daily being targeted for screaming and sometimes physical abuse, I finally ended it.  We had already been planning to move to Iceland, and I have since moved there alone.

The culture in this country is... a bit different from the US.  The prime minister is a lesbian.  Same-sex marriage was passed by the Alþing (parliament) 59-0 (no votes against). The largest annual festival in the country is Reykjavík's pride fest, which is attended by 1/3rd if the country.  Yes, there are homophobes and transphobes still (in fact, a recently-out FTM was roughed up in a men's room, making news a couple weeks ago) -- but problems are very rare.  It's generally seen as very "uncool" to be LGBT-phobic.

Attitudes toward sex and dating are also very different.  Dating... well, it's kind of a foreign concept in Iceland.  If you meet someone and you like them, you hook up.  If you hook up with the same person several times in a row without anyone else in-between, you're sort of de-facto together and then you might start going places together and cheating becomes frowned upon.  But the default expectation with someone new you like is no-strings attached sex, not dating. 

When I go out on the town at night, I'm *always* getting hit on, by really cute guys (Icelandic guys are usually soooo cute).  I get too much attention, really, sometimes.  I had one experience which... I've been calling it an "unwanted sexual experience", but I've had a couple other people tell me I really should call it rape, but I don't know.  I did manage to keep him from doing everything he wanted to do to me.  The experience kind of messed me up for a while concerning guys who are interested in me.  But anyway, I'm still trying to figure out how to fit myself into the Icelandic dating scene.

In the US, I had always told myself -- no, promised myself -- that if for some reason I was ever single, I'd never sleep with a guy without telling him about my past.  There was the trust in the relationship aspect, there was the personal-safety aspect, etc.  In Iceland, however, this is proving very difficult, since people expect sex right away (the aforementioned guy who had trouble with the word "no"/"nei" seemed to think that because I had told him earlier that I thought he was really cute, that everything else was okay).  There is no "relationship" to lose trust in; it's often *expected* that you hardly know the person you're sleeping with.  And the society is -- at least in general -- much more LGBT-tolerant, reducing the safety-risk aspect.

So what I'm wondering is whether I should reconsider my previous assumptions about sex and disclosure.  I'm currently overseas and this has been on my mind a lot.

One thing that's kind of constrained me so far also is fear of, what if I sleep with him and he can tell there's something different about me?  Will he somehow know?  And I really don't know that.  I don't exactly have a long history with men.  As mentioned, I've been with the same person, a woman, since I was a teenager.  We had a couple joint trysts with one guy  when I was post-op, but that's pretty much it.  I really don't know... well... what it would be like for them and whether I'd have to face a situation where even if I might not be physically at risk, it could be emotionally taxing, having to explain my past in a moment of intimacy.  But then again... I don't know.  I just really don't know what to think about all of this.  I've done "stuff" with a few guys who've been interested in me, but I've never gone all the way.  And I think they just assume that since I'm from America, I have more prudish attitudes about sex or something.  But I really don't want to become the "American Prude" here. 

What do you all think?

[AbraCadabra]

Never mind "morality" for a moment... it is the "culture" of who we are, that guides our feelings and instincts also.

NEVER, in my opinion go against what you inner feelings, 6th sense, or instinct tells you. Do not be swayed. It is usually if we do not listen to this inner voice - that we regret it sorely afterwards.

My 2 cents,
Axélle

[Anonymouse1]

I should add that when I saw "morality", I'm not talking about some sort of absolute or religious sort of thing -- just whether something is the right thing to do.

Inner voice? Because I was feeling one way when I lived in the states, but now I'm starting to lean more toward the opposite.

I'm starting to think that what is the "moral" choice is culturally-dependant.  I *think* that worrying about whether someone would know that I'm post-op *and* that they'd care *and* react violently combines to such a low probability in such a cultural environment that it is probably no longer worth the negatives of avoiding sexual relationships.  And additionally, I think that avoiding sex-without-disclosure early on is now probably more of a hindrance to forming relationships than participating in it.  But honestly, I really don't know, and am wondering what others think.

[spacial]

Morality is surely based upon the accepted notions of the society.

One thing I've found, living is many different countries and societies, is that, in a new place, the priority is to fit in. Being different is for the really popular and being really popular is not only for the few.  It's also really hard work!

You've made a new start. No harm intended toward anyone. Be who you are. An attractive women, trying to fit in.

From what I know of Icelandic people, they probably won't care either way.

Boy, I'm feeling a wee bit of jealously. 

[AbraCadabra]

One's "inner voice", instincts, are NOT dependent on any culture change - at ALL.
They are who you are.

Though, if you always wanted to get laid... go for it, - and don't forget to use protection.
Even in cold places there be viruses lurking.

Axélle

[Jamie D]

The culture in this country is... a bit different from the US.  The prime minister is a lesbian.  Same-sex marriage was passed by the Alþing (parliament) 59-0 (no votes against). The largest annual festival in the country is Reykjavík's pride fest, which is attended by 1/3rd if the country....

What do you all think?

I think I miss the archaic letters (in modern English):

þ (thorn) -  th as in thick

ð (eth) - th as in them

ȝ (yogh) - gh as in ghoul

[Anonymouse1]

Thanks, Spatial -- I think there's a lot of truth in that. 

Jamie: Hehe, Icelandic doesn't have ȝ, but it does have ð and þ    And they're very useful indeed -- I sometimes find myself inadvertently writing them when writing English (also æ).  I also really like having accents over vowels to make it clear which sound they make (well, usually clear -- the Reykjavík/Höfuðborgarsvæði accent has a couple exceptions, like a before ng or nk being pronounced á -- but even still, not many).  That's not to say that Icelandic pronunciation doesn't have plenty of its own weirdness    R is of course difficult for English speakers (alveolar trill), but at least it's regular.  A good example of irregularity is "ll"; it's a lateral tongue click, but only usually.  There's lots of exceptions, so if you're not careful, for example, you can end up pronouncing jeans (gallabuxur) in a way that instead means "defective pants" 

[nicole99]

When it is casual - I don't think they need to know about your trans history. But it sounds like you want to be honest about that but are understandably worried about violent reactions. The first time is going to be the hardest, pick someone nice and go for it.

I think you are probably safest telling people you are trans in a public place. For added safety don't go out alone, and check in with your friend if you do go home with someone. Don't be alone with someone you are not sure about yet.

Personally I think most guys won't care - you are a woman they are attracted to with all the right bits. And you have added exoticism in that you are from another country and are trans.

Now I can almost guarantee they won't know the difference. All women feel different anyway, the is the beauty of variety. Your ->-bleeped-<- will be as warm and moist and inviting as any other girls out there. Chances are it will be tighter too which will feel good.

Good luck hun! Enjoy yourself!

[Jamie D]

Thanks, Spatial -- I think there's a lot of truth in that. 

Jamie: Hehe, Icelandic doesn't have ȝ, but it does have ð and þ    And they're very useful indeed -- I sometimes find myself inadvertently writing them when writing English (also æ).  I also really like having accents over vowels to make it clear which sound they make (well, usually clear -- the Reykjavík/Höfuðborgarsvæði accent has a couple exceptions, like a before ng or nk being pronounced á -- but even still, not many).  That's not to say that Icelandic pronunciation doesn't have plenty of its own weirdness    R is of course difficult for English speakers (alveolar trill), but at least it's regular.  A good example of irregularity is "ll"; it's a lateral tongue click, but only usually.  There's lots of exceptions, so if you're not careful, for example, you can end up pronouncing jeans (gallabuxur) in a way that instead means "defective pants" 

In my three visits to Iceland, I developed a taste for skyr.

I loved how many of the homes in Reykjavik are painted in bright, cheerful colors.

And how the telephone boon was listed by first name.

[Anonymouse1]

@Jamie: Skyr is great, but have you ever tried súrmjólk með hnettu og karamellu?  It's soooo good.  Whenever I travel overseas I bring several cartons of the stuff     And as for houses, my "apartment" (still looking for a home of my own) is a whole wing of an otherwise single-family home.  It's not super-brightly colored like a lot of places, but to enter it, you have to walk through a geothermally-heated greenhouse (I'm a plant fanatic, so when I learned this, I was so happy     ).

Hey, next time you head out to Iceland, drop me a line (fas AT eaku.net); you've got a place to stay if you want it. 

@Nicole: I think you're right -- that the first time will be hardest.  Heck, I think it'd be difficult even if I wasn't trans, just given the fact that I've been married for over a decade.  But at this point, I think it's mainly been my worries about their reaction to my body that have been holding me back, and I don't think I should let that happen and get in the way of a good life. 

I'll be safe! 

[Jamie D]

@Jamie: Skyr is great, but have you ever tried súrmjólk með hnettu og karamellu?  It's soooo good.  Whenever I travel overseas I bring several cartons of the stuff     And as for houses, my "apartment" (still looking for a home of my own) is a whole wing of an otherwise single-family home.  It's not super-brightly colored like a lot of places, but to enter it, you have to walk through a geothermally-heated greenhouse (I'm a plant fanatic, so when I learned this, I was so happy     ).

Hey, next time you head out to Iceland, drop me a line (fas AT eaku.net); you've got a place to stay if you want it. 

@Nicole: I think you're right -- that the first time will be hardest.  Heck, I think it'd be difficult even if I wasn't trans, just given the fact that I've been married for over a decade.  But at this point, I think it's mainly been my worries about their reaction to my body that have been holding me back, and I don't think I should let that happen and get in the way of a good life. 

I'll be safe! 

It has been many, many years since I was last in Iceland.  I don't do oceanography as a profession any longer, so I will have little opportunity to travel in that direction.

I still have a couple of momentos from Iceland, I bought the times I was there.  I have a fur hat (looks Russian) made there, I have a framed lithograph showing and Icelandic farm with glaciers and volcanoes in the background, and I have a chess book (in Icelandic) by Grandmaster Frederik Olafsson and Freysteinn Johansson, about the chess match between Bobby Fischer and Boris Spassky (Skakbok ab Fischer gegn Spassky).

[Julie Wilson]

One's "inner voice", instincts, are NOT dependent on any culture change - at ALL.
They are who you are.

Totally agree..  Sadly most people have to learn this and may never..  There is a book called The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz that can help some.

Many people however are "locked-in" to their reality.. It's like the saying, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks."  People decide what "reality" is and then spend the rest of their lives obeying the "rules" they created for themselves, rules that prevent them from experiencing the true depth and breadth of life post transition when really.. they need to throw away that out-dated road map and buy a new one.

[AbraCadabra]

Totally agree..  Sadly most people have to learn this and may never..  There is a book called The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz that can help some.

Many people however are "locked-in" to their reality.. It's like the saying, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks."  People decide what "reality" is and then spend the rest of their lives obeying the "rules" they created for themselves, rules that prevent them from experiencing the true depth and breadth of life post transition when really.. they need to throw away that out-dated road map and buy a new one.

People decide what "reality" is and then spend the rest of their lives obeying the "rules" they created for themselves, ...

Limiting as just THAT alone may be, now add those "rules" (actually values) that had been drummed into one, often by force, from the outside i.e. not what you actually came to figure out for yourself - but rather what folks around you had figured out to be RIGHT for you!

This latter issue IMHO is actually by far the worse, as they twist and warp our own value-system and create very often, if not always..., the sort of mind-bends often referred to as  'demons'.

Just food for thought,
Axélle

[Julie Wilson]

Totally true Axelle, and that is what Don Miguel Ruiz specifically deals with in his book, 'The Four Agreements'.

[AbraCadabra]

Totally true Axelle, and that is what Don Miguel Ruiz specifically deals with in his book, 'The Four Agreements'.

Well, not to divert that thread too much, this person mentioned is/was a notable influence on EST in US, and the parallel seminars I AM and Joy Spring in SA.
Yes, it can get heavy dealing with those issues - I have my own tale to tell, and seen so many other's too, - mind you, in the "life environment" of it all.

Enough said, - still in the vein of: "Morality in a different culture..."

Axélle

[mementomori]

ugh this is making me want to travel so bad , but the only travelling ill be doing in the near future is for FFS next year or the year after