A Question For The Ladies....

[Kelly J. P.]

 I didn't really notice my "male privilege", and to be fair it wasn't much of a loss - if I ever had male privilege to begin with. I certainly didn't notice it, and life isn't any different these days....

None of the other fun aspects of being a male are missed, and they didn't come close to being so much as thought of, as far as holding me back goes. Being strong and dominant was never me... although, it is moreso now than before, as I feel stronger on Estrogen (as a person).

[Naturally Blonde]

Hi there I hope I'm not intruding on anything and I didn't know the best way to to word this question in the title.  I hope no one finds this question offensive.

Before transitioning were you ever concerned about losing what some may consider "male privlilege" or just the whole concept/aura of being a "dominant strong male" perhaps or something of the sort?  How did did you handle it and was that part of the reason you may have held off transitioning?

The question doesn't relate to me. I was never a strong dominant male and always assumed a female persona. I would never want any 'male privilege' and the thread poster assumes that all transsexuals are full on red blooded males before they transition which is a very shallow and nieve viewpoint.

[Sephirah]

As far as I'm concerned the idea of 'male privilege' and 'female privilege' are both misnomers, since one doesn't have to be male to have so-called 'male privilege' or female to have so-called 'female privilege'. At least not going by some of what's been said here. Because of that, I'm not at all convinced that been seen as a man or woman plays as big a part in either attitudes as a lot of folks like to believe. And largely because of this, as yardsticks by which to measure oneself... well, to me they're both pretty much irrelevant.

Perhaps 'dominant' and 'submissive' are nearer the mark in terms of how people are treated than 'a man' or 'a woman'. I've seen dominant, sometimes physically imposing cis women be treated with more 'male privilege' than any men, with all of the 'stereotype boxes' ticked several times over. And also the reverse with cis guys. I don't think it was anything to do with their sex, or gender, but with their personality type, attitude to life, and a sense of gravitas or presence.

As for myself, I don't think I've ever really been treated with any sort of 'privilege', or if I have I wasn't aware of it. So to answer the question - concerned about losing male priviledge? Not even slightly. But to go one step further - am I concerned about gaining female privilege? Again, not in the least. My philosophy is just to live life true to yourself and who you are, and let other people think what they like.

[Miki]

Before transitioning were you ever concerned about losing what some may consider "male privlilege" or just the whole concept/aura of being a "dominant strong male" perhaps or something of the sort?  How did did you handle it and was that part of the reason you may have held off transitioning?

Yes, absolutely.  I spent the bulk of my life striving to meet expectations and standards that revolved entirely around competitive endeavors steeped in, often stereotypical, male activities.  Walking into a room, sizing every other male there up with a critical eye, military service, extreme sports and recreational activities, martial arts...it's a long list of "Look at how manly I am, rawr!" behavior.

In retrospect, I'm aware that embracing all of these things to the degree I did was an effort on my part to ignore/discount the conflict I was feeling inside.  I spent a lot of time engaged in ridiculously exaggerated behavior to convince myself I was a "mans's man."  Falling back into those patterns as a fear reaction when I've dipped my toe into the honestly pool in the past 100% accounts for the false starts I've experienced on my path to transitioning. 

I found comfort in what I knew, what was expected of me and some solace in how that reinforced other people's perception of me.  At the same time, I was tearing myself apart inside denying the thing I was so horribly terrified of, shoving the potential shame and fear of judgement down with testosterone-fueled insanity.  I don't even like bungee jumping, it scares the ->-bleeped-<- out of me, and yet there I was.... 

Whoops. ;p

I kind of feel those overblown behaviors were a serious crutch that I hid behind.  They lowered people's expectations of me where expressing my feelings and honest emotional investment were concerned.  I took "Hulk Smash/Mongo Like Candy" and tweaked it enough to hide behind effectively.  For a while, at least.

I don't miss being perceived that way at all, don't miss the pressure to be "that guy" and I sure as hell don't miss the exhausting effort it took to maintain that facade.

-Miki

[Renee D]

I probably did get a little of it where work was concerned, but mainly due to the fields I worked in in the past. Otherwise, not really. I think too much was expected of me that I couldn't do or be and often how I was perceived by others likely lowered whatever privilege there was.


And really, I'm not big on throwing the whole privilege thing around. Its used too often to attack people that probably don't even utilize it all that much to their advantage and really, its just attacking someone simply for who they are or what they were born as.  And to me, that just seems hypocritical.

[Stephe]

The question doesn't relate to me. I was never a strong dominant male and always assumed a female persona. I would never want any 'male privilege' and the thread poster assumes that all transsexuals are full on red blooded males before they transition which is a very shallow and nieve viewpoint.

This is NOT what he said or implied in any way shape or form. "male privilege" is GIVEN to anyone presenting as male. You can't say "I don't want it". No one said anything about being alpha male or strong/dominant. That has absolutely nothing to do with what this term means.

So before we all start personally attacking the OP, maybe try learning what the term even means:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_privilege

"Male privilege is a sociological term that refers quite generally to the special rights or status granted to men in a society, on the basis of their sex or gender, but usually denied to women."

You were GIVEN this status for being male without your permission require or allowed. Unless you pass as female, you HAVE this status.

"The term "male privilege" does not apply to a solitary occurrence of the use of power, but rather describes one of many systemic power structures that are interdependent and interlinked throughout societies and cultures."

I know it's all proper in TG circles to deny you ever had this but unless you never presented as a male, ever, than you had male privilege until you did start to pass as female.

And for anyone who wants to pretend this doesn't exist, go over to the middle east as a woman and see if you still think men don't have rights not granted to women as an example of how extreme this can get.

[Stephe]

I think too much was expected of me that I couldn't do or be and often how I was perceived by others likely lowered whatever privilege there was.

OK I'm not picking on you specifically but this is not what male privilege is. It has nothing to do with "acting like a man" or being strong/dominant. It simply the special considerations that are given to males that are not extended to women. Assumptions that are made based on the perceived sex of the person.

It's no different than a person who is racially discriminated against knowing they never met the stereotype. It doesn't matter, they either will be discriminated against because of this racism by some people or they will be given a pass because they aren't of that race. I have never actively taken "white privilege" (acted like a white racist bigot) but to try to claim I never have benefited from being born white would be delusional. It's not right that these privileges exist, but it just is reality.

[pretty]

I want to kind of respond to the general tone of the replies...

Okay, to the OP, I first wanted to say that my reply was not denying the existence of male privilege. 'Cause I know it exists and I know FTMs feel what it's like to not have it. And a lot of men don't even realize they have it.

Male privilege is a lot of little things. I know a lot of MTFs here have had careers in male-dominated fields so I think it would be hard to say there was a lack of male privilege there. Maybe they don't understand that male privilege could have had something to do with just being taken seriously and getting in the door. Women struggle through even the college courses to get those degrees, because of how they are treated. Even today.

So yea, I really don't want to throw my hat in with the "male privilege doesn't exist" sentiment. I only say that male privilege didn't affect me because I had pretty much no academic or professional life. I never functionally or meaningfully lived as a male. Otherwise, it would have affected me.

And then on the other hand, I do want to reiterate to FTMs that there are real cons associated with being seen as a male. At least for a female-minded person. I notice these a lot especially because I had a sister and could pretty easily see the difference in how we were treated by family and friends of family. And it was very depressing.

So for an MTF who knows from an early age who and what they are, it's hard to really look at male privilege as an overall benefit when their condition makes them feel so negative about how they are treated how they are seen by other people all the time. Male privilege is most useful to men, or people who live like men. Men will hardly feel privileged when learning how to sew dresses, buying makeup, expressing emotion, etc.

[Miki]

OK I'm not picking on you specifically but this is not what male privilege is. It has nothing to do with "acting like a man" or being strong/dominant. It simply the special considerations that are given to males that are not extended to women. Assumptions that are made based on the perceived sex of the person.

It's no different than a person who is racially discriminated against knowing they never met the stereotype. It doesn't matter, they either will be discriminated against because of this racism by some people or they will be given a pass because they aren't of that race. I have never actively taken "white privilege" (acted like a white racist bigot) but to try to claim I never have benefited from being born white would be delusional. It's not right that these privileges exist, but it just is reality.

I'd just add that those assumptions/perceptions can influence behavior significantly.  Feeding into them can be a result of certain types of perceptions being easier to roll with than others.

I agree, it is a passive thing to be sure, but expressed behavior can either contradict or reinforce those "special considerations" on a daily basis.  In my case, the reinforcement fed into the second part of the OP's question.

The OP asked about two distinct things shifting: Male privilege and the perceptions of being dominant. 

-Miki

[Amazon D]

Hi there I hope I'm not intruding on anything and I didn't know the best way to to word this question in the title.  I hope no one finds this question offensive.

Before transitioning were you ever concerned about losing what some may consider "male privlilege" or just the whole concept/aura of being a "dominant strong male" perhaps or something of the sort?  How did did you handle it and was that part of the reason you may have held off transitioning?

are you kidding me??? I wanted female priviledge. Men got blamed for everything and anything and when it came down to who do they believe it was always the woman. There ain't no such thing as male priviledge. Except for maybe earning more money..

[Skyanne]

Hi there I hope I'm not intruding on anything and I didn't know the best way to to word this question in the title.  I hope no one finds this question offensive.

Before transitioning were you ever concerned about losing what some may consider "male privlilege" or just the whole concept/aura of being a "dominant strong male" perhaps or something of the sort?  How did did you handle it and was that part of the reason you may have held off transitioning?

I hated 'male priviledge', the priviledge to be treated with suspicion, expected to be a jerk, blamed for everything and have all your achievements written off is not worth having. I'm much happier with my female priviledge.

[Renee D]

OK I'm not picking on you specifically but this is not what male privilege is. It has nothing to do with "acting like a man" or being strong/dominant. It simply the special considerations that are given to males that are not extended to women. Assumptions that are made based on the perceived sex of the person.

It's no different than a person who is racially discriminated against knowing they never met the stereotype. It doesn't matter, they either will be discriminated against because of this racism by some people or they will be given a pass because they aren't of that race. I have never actively taken "white privilege" (acted like a white racist bigot) but to try to claim I never have benefited from being born white would be delusional. It's not right that these privileges exist, but it just is reality.

I had a lot of characteristics and behaviors that affected how people perceived me. I stated that in my post. I do think the way they perceived me did have some affect on how much male privilege I was afforded.  I was not treated the same, most often I was treated like a tomboy and even somewhat protected by some, so I didn't usually get direct bullying or anything.  I know what male privilege is and honestly, the whole deal with privilege has gotten old and tiring to me. It seems that one group of people are always whining about privilege being given to another group while just as often it comes across as pure jealousy over what they perceive as an advantage whether it really is or not.

Anyway, I'm done with this topic and I have to go to work.

[Amazon D]

No. I don't care to have any "male privilege" ... I have always hated every expectation of me to perform like a male, and that's what comes with it when people give you that privilege.

LOL so true and i really shouldn't LOL because it sucked..

[Amazon D]

I miss getting beaten up, shamed, ridiculed, rejected, laughed at, spit on--yeah, I had to give all that up.

Ditto or have your legs spread open by some guys and run into a light pole.. damn that hurts..

[Amazon D]

The only thing I'll eventually miss is being able to pee standing up, when needed.

I rather sit its more comfortable... the only issue i had was when campaigning for Obama in NH i couldn;t find one and peed myself a few times i always brought extra pants and eventually got a diaper

Yes i had a Urinary Tract infection

[Skyanne]

I really just hate the assumption of all males automatically getting a cake walk. Primarily only alpha males benefit from male priviledge, beta males suffer most of the same issues as women and it's considered okay to crap on them because they're men, so they must have it easy. 

[eli77]

It's a lot less overt, at least in my middle-class, white, progressive, privileged part of the world, than it has been in the past. So to be honest it's difficult to even recognize all the changes.

But I miss not getting stared at in public - I never have the option to just be invisible anymore. I find it irritating that I have to push twice as hard to get a point across with some people. I don't like that my chances of reaching the upper echelons of my profession have been drastically reduced; or the quiet condescension that I get from older men and women when they realize how clever I am; or that I have to be a lot more careful when I'm out at night alone; or the exaggerated courtesies I get from strange men.

However, it never even crossed my mind to worry about when I transitioned. And it is a marginal price to pay for breathing.

Weirdly, I kinda prefer the disadvantages. Like Arctic Kat said, "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be liked for what you are not." The loss of privilege is validating in a really ->-bleeped-<-ed kind of way.

And by the by, I was perceived as a femme-y gay guy pre-transition. Yes, it curtailed my privilege somewhat and I ended up in some difficult situations - because of heterosexism - but it's still different from being perceived as female.

[Amazon D]

I really just hate the assumption of all males automatically getting a cake walk. Primarily only alpha males benefit from male priviledge, beta males suffer most of the same issues as women and it's considered okay to crap on them because they're men, so they must have it easy. 

Ditto male priveledge came in a second and was gone the next after some other guy came around.. Thats why i was so sensative to women's feelings..

also i hated my own male sexuality .. that was surely no priveldge.. imagine having to do it 3 times a day for yrs since puberty... nooo way .. thankfully that crap is goneeeeeeee

[Amazon D]

It's a lot less overt, at least in my middle-class, white, progressive, privileged part of the world, than it has been in the past. So to be honest it's difficult to even recognize all the changes.

But I miss not getting stared at in public - I never have the option to just be invisible anymore. I find it irritating that I have to push twice as hard to get a point across with some people. I don't like that my chances of reaching the upper echelons of my profession have been drastically reduced; or the quiet condescension that I get from older men and women when they realize how clever I am; or that I have to be a lot more careful when I'm out at night alone; or the exaggerated courtesies I get from strange men.

However, it never even crossed my mind to worry about when I transitioned. And it is a marginal price to pay for breathing.

In a weird way, I kinda prefer the disadvantages. Like Arctic Kat said, "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be liked for what you are not."

And by the by, I was perceived as a femme-y gay guy pre-transition. Yes, it curtailed my privilege somewhat and I ended up in some difficult situations - because of heterosexism - but it's still different from being perceived as female.

I'll agree i don't like unwanted advances from males.. thats why i dress down androgenously... and gaining some weight has made me less attractive to males and living in the country away fropm cities has made for less chances of attacks.. so yes not all womens priveledges are perfect either.. but i am much more happier now.. anybody says anything i show them my female ID and they back off because males are afraid of women who might scream or blame them for anything..

[Annah]

The question doesn't relate to me. I was never a strong dominant male and always assumed a female persona. I would never want any 'male privilege' and the thread poster assumes that all transsexuals are full on red blooded males before they transition which is a very shallow and nieve viewpoint.

you completely and utterly missed his point.