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Misgendered...again....

Started by Nygeel, April 14, 2012, 02:12:11 PM

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insideontheoutside

Quote from: lexical on April 15, 2012, 10:53:03 PM
Well, it's possible to be comfortable with who you are but at the same time frustrated with people's inability to see the true you. And I think it's the fact that it's happening more often than not for nygeel. He's done all of these things to improve his "passability" but has had little success. After a certain point what more can you do? I would think it's a very tough place to be in. And plus it's more than just not letting other people's interpretations bother you because you can't really be yourself socially when people are treating you like a female when you're not. Not to say that people are treated worse as females, it's just a very different experience (at least it has been for me).

Trust me, I know. I never even transitioned. That's my choice and after years of doing that, when I am in "guy mode" out and people do not refer to me as male it can be frustrating, but only if I let it be frustrating. If I'm already having a bad day or there's other factors, I could let it get to me. But it's all up to me. If I know what I am, it really doesn't matter what people are calling me. I don't have to grow a beard or talk about sports or wear clothes I don't like just to be me. I already am me, inside and out.

Nygeel is one step farther than me because he actually chose to transition, so technically it should matter even less. If you're on the hormones, you're changing your I.D., you're living as male, and you're comfortable, then no one else can tell you who you are. If you want to allow them to, that's your business. If you want to let it get to you, that's your business. If you want to ignore it and just go on with your life, that's also your business.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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PixieBoy

Nygeel, I don't understand how people can look at you and see a woman. I mean, seriously, what's up with that? Sadly I have no idea how to fix it other than to let the T keep on doing its stuff. Perhaps you should try and correct people, standing there and taking it is usually seen as more feminine, I suppose. But that's a pretty hypocritical thing for me to say considering I never correct people when they misgender me, I just silently curse them inside my mind and walk away.
...that fey-looking freak kid with too many books and too much bodily fat
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lexical

Quote from: insideontheoutside on April 15, 2012, 11:42:34 PM
Trust me, I know. I never even transitioned. That's my choice and after years of doing that, when I am in "guy mode" out and people do not refer to me as male it can be frustrating, but only if I let it be frustrating. If I'm already having a bad day or there's other factors, I could let it get to me. But it's all up to me. If I know what I am, it really doesn't matter what people are calling me. I don't have to grow a beard or talk about sports or wear clothes I don't like just to be me. I already am me, inside and out.

Nygeel is one step farther than me because he actually chose to transition, so technically it should matter even less. If you're on the hormones, you're changing your I.D., you're living as male, and you're comfortable, then no one else can tell you who you are. If you want to allow them to, that's your business. If you want to let it get to you, that's your business. If you want to ignore it and just go on with your life, that's also your business.

What should matter less? How people read you? I would say that it matters more. If you're changing all of your documentation to male yet the vast majority of people still read you as female, that's a pretty big problem... especially if you've been hormones for awhile and not much is changing. I mean it's one thing if it's happening on rare occasions but in his case it seems to be most of the time (based on what he's posted). That can create some awkward and dangerous situations over time that you can't always handle by just ignoring people. Not trying to go after you personally, just looking at the other side of this issue.
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insideontheoutside

Quote from: lexical on April 16, 2012, 12:54:09 AM
What should matter less? How people read you? I would say that it matters more. If you're changing all of your documentation to male yet the vast majority of people still read you as female, that's a pretty big problem... especially if you've been hormones for awhile and not much is changing. I mean it's one thing if it's happening on rare occasions but in his case it seems to be most of the time (based on what he's posted). That can create some awkward and dangerous situations over time that you can't always handle by just ignoring people. Not trying to go after you personally, just looking at the other side of this issue.

Then it's a matter of actively correcting people. And if you're comfortable and confident with yourself, it's easier to do. It's also easier to do if you have changed your gender on your ID. That was my point. It's a lot easier to publicly say you're male when your ID backs that up ... even if someone were to mistake you for female.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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Keaira

Okay okay. Boys, Nygeel needs some help. A Brother is in need.

This is going to sound a bit brutal, but I'm not one to mince words.
You're not rugged like Clint Eastwood. You have some feminine features that can actually be used to your advantage. But ONLY if you're seen as a guy. The world is brutal. If you don't quack like a duck, waddle like a duck or look like a duck, you're not a duck, no matter how much you cluck. A genetic guy would probably be offended to be gendered as female.

You have to rely on other cue's to tell the world, "I'm a man!" if your squeeking and jumping up and down with excitement, this screams "girl!"  And growing up in the male world, that would have painted a target on your back and advertised you as "Open for a butt kicking."  I of course grew up with other British military kids. How civilian kids were, I don't know too well. the one civvy school I went to I was thought to be gay (Just like at every school I went to) and therefore an easy target because I couldn't hide my feminine mannerisms or speech pattern..something. I never did figure it out. Think of it as balancing stats in sports. The team, is YOU. You're look's aren't strong. The other team are genetic males. So you make up for your weak points with attributes that bring team YOU's stat's up level with the Genetic Males. Study your opponent. watch them. what are the men in your age group buying and wearing? What do other guys say to each other? T wont give you a Grizzly Adams beard over night. it could take years.

I get misgendered. people at work STILL call me by male pronouns. So I do understand the frustration you feel. At drive-thru's it can be hit and miss with my voice. When I am out in public I try to portray a female in my mannerism's, appearance, walk and how I communicate and interact with others around me. And it pay's off! I rushed unto Subway before work yesterday. I was called Ma'am without uttering a single word by the girl behind the counter. I was in a jacket and my work uniform.
We can debate your appearance until we are blue in the face. Photo's will only tell a percentage of the story.  The rest is down to your mannerism's, interaction with others, walk, speech pattern, etc.

you either work at it until you pass 90-100% of the time, or you can resign yourself to being misgendered, but just you.  Me, I am working with what I have and trying new things all the time. But the learning never stops.
I know it is in you to pass. The key just eludes you right now. So get into the game. :)

Just my thoughts, no offence is intended. I want to see you to succeed and kick ass doing it!



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Felix

everybody's house is haunted
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Ayden

I wish I had some advice, but I am not really in a position to do so, because I don't really know what you can change. I hope that it gets better for you, man.

Quote from: Keaira on April 16, 2012, 01:19:36 AM
Think of it as balancing stats in sports. The team, is YOU. You're look's aren't strong. The other team are genetic males. So you make up for your weak points with attributes that bring team YOU's stat's up level with the Genetic Males. Study your opponent. watch them. what are the men in your age group buying and wearing? What do other guys say to each other?

I don't think I could like this enough. This is almost exactly what my partner told me when I complained to him that I don't look manly enough. :laugh: Thank you. This made me laugh and miss him a lot less. You rock, gal!
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Keaira

Quote from: Felix on April 16, 2012, 01:43:14 AM


I pulled a 12 hour shift today. Again. for the...4th day in a row... I think.. I have to be in early this morning and at 7am on Tuesday. Apparently we are expected to work 7 days a week for at least the next 5 weeks. I'm tired, sleepy and irritable. Grammar is the least of my worries right now. I think I'm applying make-up now to cover the bags and dark circles around my eyes. :(
Sorry hun.

Ayden, I'm glad I made you laugh. I really didn't know of a better way to put it. Did his advice help?
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Felix

Quote from: Keaira on April 16, 2012, 02:25:31 AM
I pulled a 12 hour shift today. Again. I have to be in early this morning and at 7am on Tuesday. I'm tired sleepy and irritable. Grammar is the least of my worries right now. I think im applying make-up now to cover the bags and dark circles around my eyes. :(
Sorry hun.

Ayden, I'm glad I made you laugh. I really didn't know of a better way to put it. Did his advice help?
Keaira I don't care about grammar or punctuation. I can almost never spell piece or weird correctly if my computer doesn't remind me how, and I still struggle with comma placement. I just couldn't comment intelligently on what anybody was saying. And that drawing always makes me smile. :)
everybody's house is haunted
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Keaira

Quote from: Felix on April 16, 2012, 02:29:30 AM
Keaira I don't care about grammar or punctuation. I can almost never spell piece or weird correctly if my computer doesn't remind me how, and I still struggle with comma placement. I just couldn't comment intelligently on what anybody was saying. And that drawing always makes me smile. :)

... Oh. I'm sorry. I thought you were getting after me. Sorry Felix-dear. *hugs*
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Felix

Quote from: Keaira on April 16, 2012, 02:32:08 AM
... Oh. I'm sorry. I thought you were getting after me. Sorry Felix-dear. *hugs*
I was getting after you, but I wasn't trying to correct you or anything. There are a few comics that get stuck in my head and just rattle around until I stumble into an outlet.

A couple others I can't shake:



everybody's house is haunted
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Felix

Sorry for derailing, Nygeel. I wish I knew what to tell you. I get misgendered at least a couple times a week still and it's frustrating. I'm hoping my facial hair grows in better soon.
everybody's house is haunted
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Keaira

Felix, I honestly thought you'd been on T for quite some time when I first saw your photo.
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Nygeel

Here's the thing...I'm thinking that people see me they think masculine woman. A masculine woman would not act feminine/flamboyant (etc), so if I play that up it's possible that it might work for me (plus I've tried a lot of "masculinizing" things that haven't worked out and made me feel uncomfortable). I've had different levels of frustration/being upset about being misgendered through the years. At first I thought "well, my hair is kind of long...that must be it" so I buzzed it off. That didn't work so I figured I wasn't dressing the right way so I changed that. That didn't work so I changed my glasses (did this twice so far). Changed my hair a few more time, changed the way I walked, spoke, and my body language. When I was still in the same spot I figured "Welp, might as well give hormones a try." I had researched side effects and everything so I knew what could potentially happen to me. It was a risk I was willing to take in order to have my gender recognized. It's been about a year and five months, and although I see massive changes in myself, others don't.

Think of it as some sort of huge project. Like designing a building, and you're really proud of this building because it's yours. You watch it get made, and it turns out to be what you believe to be the best thing you've ever made. Everybody else on the other hand thinks your building is an eyesore and should be taken down. People start protesting against your building, saying it's not eco friendly or something.

That's how my situation feels like to me.

When I'm alone or around supportive friends I have zero dysphoria. It's only in social situations where I am misgendered, or have to use my legal name that I feel it.

@Keaira I'm cool with being Jimmy Carr, and not Clint Eastwood. As I said earlier, I was not looking for "passing advice." I just wanted to vent.
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Potter

Nygeel, I'm sorry that it keeps happening. It really sucks, when you work so hard to be seen as you and the world still doesn't see you. I know, I've been there too. Unfortunately T works better for some then for others, Not another Aiden has posted about this on his blog here's a link: http://notanotheraiden.com/passing-and-testosterone/ I know it doesn't solve anything but it might help to know you are not alone.


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Dominick_81

@Nygeel:  I know how frustrating it is not passing. I'm in the same place you are in. I have a very hard time passing. I only seem to pass with a hat on.  Maybe wearing a hat might help you pass...? My cousins told me that they associate hats with guys.





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JenJen2011

Quote from: Dominick_81 on April 16, 2012, 04:50:57 PMMaybe wearing a hat might help you pass...? My cousins told me that they associate hats with guys.

It sucks having to rely on something to pass, at least for me it does. In my case, I use to rely on makeup to help me pass because without it I'd get clocked right away but even with makeup I still got clocked sometimes.

Nygeel, maybe you just need to give T more time to do its job? I know how you and I hope things change soon and get better for you.
"You have one life to live so live it right"
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supremecatoverlord

Quote from: Potter on April 16, 2012, 04:04:37 PM
Nygeel, I'm sorry that it keeps happening. It really sucks, when you work so hard to be seen as you and the world still doesn't see you. I know, I've been there too. Unfortunately T works better for some then for others, Not another Aiden has posted about this on his blog here's a link: http://notanotheraiden.com/passing-and-testosterone/ I know it doesn't solve anything but it might help to know you are not alone.
I really liked the read, but I think Nygeel has other guys in his family and from observing them, I think he said at one point, they could all grow beards in their teens. I think this might be one of the reasons he is frustrated, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Meow.



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Ayden

Quote from: Keaira on April 16, 2012, 02:25:31 AM
Ayden, I'm glad I made you laugh. I really didn't know of a better way to put it. Did his advice help?

Actually yeah, it did. :) You're like the much more graceful and public speaker oriented version of my partner.  :laugh: Our coversation was basically like this:

Him: Okay, think of it like football -
Me: I hate handegg (what I call football). Make it baseball.
Him: Okay, fine. You'll need to work on that, but anyway - no, actually baseball works better. Okay, so you are like, one guy. The batter or something. And you are batting against the entire team because like, there are no other batters.
Me: Right. Me versus those dudes with awesome 'staches.
him: Yeah, think of a whole team of dudes with my facial hair.
Me: So, I want to beat you up and take your hair, got it.
Him: Yeah, so like, you want to hit a homerun, right?
Me: Uh, yeah. Of course. Screw those guys. I want home base and all the facial hair.
Him: Right, so like, you have to hit a homerun and then go for it.
Me: What if I haven't played those guys before?
Him: Then you get a video tape or something, and watch their strategies. Or sneak into the stadium and spy on them. But you watch and watch until you are all 'I so got this. You are going down other guys!'

That is not hyperbole. He actually talks like that. :laugh: But, I think its cute.
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Keaira

I went to Best Buy last night to by a new PC power supply. I wasn't wearing make-up, I had been up waaay early and it was nearing closing time for them when I got there, so I had plenty of stubble on my face. I was dressed in girl clothes however and had my purse with me.
I still got gendered as female the whole time.

I don't practice my voice or change it. Ever.
I'm going to try an experiment next time I am free...err...not at work. I'm going to dress in guy mode and see if I can be misgendered. I want to know if clothes do make the man. I'm basically putting myself in Nygeel's shoes. But I want to see what it will take to tip the balance from girl to guy, whether it's a hat or the way I dress. Or if it's mannerisms.
Quote from: Ayden on April 18, 2012, 02:14:04 AM
Actually yeah, it did. :) You're like the much more graceful and public speaker oriented version of my partner.  :laugh: Our coversation was basically like this:

Him: Okay, think of it like football -
Me: I hate handegg (what I call football). Make it baseball.
Him: Okay, fine. You'll need to work on that, but anyway - no, actually baseball works better. Okay, so you are like, one guy. The batter or something. And you are batting against the entire team because like, there are no other batters.
Me: Right. Me versus those dudes with awesome 'staches.
him: Yeah, think of a whole team of dudes with my facial hair.
Me: So, I want to beat you up and take your hair, got it.
Him: Yeah, so like, you want to hit a homerun, right?
Me: Uh, yeah. Of course. Screw those guys. I want home base and all the facial hair.
Him: Right, so like, you have to hit a homerun and then go for it.
Me: What if I haven't played those guys before?
Him: Then you get a video tape or something, and watch their strategies. Or sneak into the stadium and spy on them. But you watch and watch until you are all 'I so got this. You are going down other guys!'

That is not hyperbole. He actually talks like that. :laugh: But, I think its cute.

LOL.

So much desire for facial hair. Well, I guess  this is your goal and opponent in that respect.


I wonder how many of you will want all that hair in 10/15/20 years time? lol



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