How is being Intersex a sin as some fundys say?

[ToriJo]

Not a sin, but a "gift" of singleness:

"Recall that in this passage Jesus is discussing eunuchs who were "born" that way, "made that way" by men, or have "renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven." While the context of this statement by Jesus is clearly centered on the questions of divorce, marriage, and God's created intent for human sexual expression, it's comforting to note that Jesus frames both the beginning and end of his comments here with an acknowledgment that not all can accept this word – indicating deep compassion on His part with those who find themselves in circumstances whereby they are unable to enter into the "one-flesh union" of marriage, whether by design, mutilation or personal decision. Moreover, Jesus indicates that this calling is given to only a few – implying that abundant grace is afforded to those who, for whatever reason, are to bear what Paul refers to as the gift of singleness (1 Cor. 7)."  -- Focus on the Family on Intersexuality

In other words, if they aren't typically male or female, or if they can't have typical sex, then, according to some, marriage is out as an option.  I find that view quite offensive.  But it's how Focus wants to deal with it, as it keeps their black-and-white world simple.  I doubt they are unique in these views.

So not a sin..at least until you have sex or get married...

[JayKyle]

Not a sin, but a "gift" of singleness:

"Recall that in this passage Jesus is discussing eunuchs who were "born" that way, "made that way" by men, or have "renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven." While the context of this statement by Jesus is clearly centered on the questions of divorce, marriage, and God's created intent for human sexual expression, it's comforting to note that Jesus frames both the beginning and end of his comments here with an acknowledgment that not all can accept this word – indicating deep compassion on His part with those who find themselves in circumstances whereby they are unable to enter into the "one-flesh union" of marriage, whether by design, mutilation or personal decision. Moreover, Jesus indicates that this calling is given to only a few – implying that abundant grace is afforded to those who, for whatever reason, are to bear what Paul refers to as the gift of singleness (1 Cor. 7)."  -- Focus on the Family on Intersexuality

In other words, if they aren't typically male or female, or if they can't have typical sex, then, according to some, marriage is out as an option.  I find that view quite offensive.  But it's how Focus wants to deal with it, as it keeps their black-and-white world simple.  I doubt they are unique in these views.

So not a sin..at least until you have sex or get married...

Well um guess i'm going to go have one big F***ing party in hell...anyone want to join me? lol 

[xxUltraModLadyxx]

who cares? they aren't important.

[Annah]

who cares? they aren't important.

They are important enough to make North Carolina place in their amendment that same sex marriage is illegal.

[JayKyle]

They are important enough to make North Carolina place in their amendment that same sex marriage is illegal.

Which they did so we (I live in NC) couldn't pass a bill saying that it could be legalized. But the retards that wrote it also messed up a lot of other things so LGBTs are going to be scapegoats for a lot of hate and crime in this state now. I have a feeling its going to get real ugly real fast.

[Annah]

Which they did so we (I live in NC) couldn't pass a bill saying that it could be legalized. But the retards that wrote it also messed up a lot of other things so LGBTs are going to be scapegoats for a lot of hate and crime in this state now. I have a feeling its going to get real ugly real fast.

You can count on that my friend.

[Renee D]

Which they did so we (I live in NC) couldn't pass a bill saying that it could be legalized. But the retards that wrote it also messed up a lot of other things so LGBTs are going to be scapegoats for a lot of hate and crime in this state now. I have a feeling its going to get real ugly real fast.

They set it up for the primary so that it had a better chance of passing.  I live on the coast, things aren't so bad for our ilk here, at least in my experience. 

[ToriJo]

It doesn't matter which way the vote goes.  Either way, LGBT people are going to be scape goats.

Typically, with other minorities, we've seen anger directed towards the minority increase substantually as the minority gains visibility and gains rights.  There is also almost always legislation enacted as people get rights, to prevent those people from getting rights.

Why didn't NC have an anti-gay ammendment for the last 200 years?  It's simple - gays were hidden and had no rights, so there was no "need" to "protect" marriage.  Now they are scared, so they are trying to pass laws.

Historically however, these anti-equality laws are the last attempts to hold ground before the bigots lose.

[Annah]

exactly....take into account the last time North Carolina amended their marriage laws. It was to "ban negros from marrying whites and this action will be enforced forever."

Well...forever wasn't as long as they had hoped for.

[JayKyle]

exactly....take into account the last time North Carolina amended their marriage laws. It was to "ban negros from marrying whites and this action will be enforced forever."

Well...forever wasn't as long as they had hoped for.

True but I'm still not happy about it nor the problems its going to cause.

[xxUltraModLadyxx]

They are important enough to make North Carolina place in their amendment that same sex marriage is illegal.

they still aren't important. whatever happens with same sex marriage will happen. whatever their opinions are on intersex don't mean a thing. same sex marriage will become legal inevitably. "fundy's" will be a thing of history. btw, politics aren't important either.

[Annah]

they still aren't important. whatever happens with same sex marriage will happen. whatever their opinions are on intersex don't mean a thing. same sex marriage will become legal inevitably. "fundy's" will be a thing of history. btw, politics aren't important either.

this isn't the future. This is the present, and right now fundamentalist has power to sway votes at the polling stations. The greatest disadvantage we may put ourselves through is by assuming they aren't important. Trust me...at this present time...they are. In the future, we will have fundamentalist too...it may not be in the form of gay rights but they will always be here.

[xxUltraModLadyxx]

this isn't the future. This is the present, and right now fundamentalist has power to sway votes at the polling stations. The greatest disadvantage we may put ourselves through is by assuming they aren't important. Trust me...at this present time...they are. In the future, we will have fundamentalist too...it may not be in the form of gay rights but they will always be here.

fair enough. i'll let you victimize yourself to someone with "power." power is only given to those who can victimize people with power.

[Anthropos]

FullMoon: I really don't see how you can accuse Annah of victimizing herself. Power is defined as the ability to cause change. As absurd as it is, our rights are things on the political bargaining table. I'm not talking about rights in an abstract sense, but in a very real sense: the ability to acquire and keep a job regardless of gender identity, the right to marry who you want to, crimes of violence against trans and intersex persons being considered hate crimes like with any other minority group, the most basic right of guarantee of protection by police against violence and (even more sadly) protection against violence by police. You can hide your head in the sand all you want, but politics has very real effects on the most basic ability of trans and intersex people to live a life with the most basic ability to subsist along with freedom from fear of physical violence   

[Annah]

eh its ok

She can say I'm victimizing myself all she wants but she doesn't know what I do everyday and the things I have accomplished for myself. She speaks out of pure ignorance about that.

So I just blow it off and not take it seriously.

[Anthropos]

Just one last comment on the subject: truly victimizing yourself is when you are being abused and do nothing about it. I, for one, will always be found on the front lines giving them hell.

[CosmicJoke]

eh its ok

She can say I'm victimizing myself all she wants but she doesn't know what I do everyday and the things I have accomplished for myself. She speaks out of pure ignorance about that.

So I just blow it off and not take it seriously.

what do you do everyday and accomplish for yourself? please enlighten me. i simply said they aren't important. they're not important to me, so i don't need to worry about it, but apparently you do, which is fine. i don't need to be told what is important and what isn't by someone who doesn't know me likewise. we have two different scopes on the subject, which i though you could have respected, but i guess not.

[CosmicJoke]

FullMoon: I really don't see how you can accuse Annah of victimizing herself. Power is defined as the ability to cause change. As absurd as it is, our rights are things on the political bargaining table. I'm not talking about rights in an abstract sense, but in a very real sense: the ability to acquire and keep a job regardless of gender identity, the right to marry who you want to, crimes of violence against trans and intersex persons being considered hate crimes like with any other minority group, the most basic right of guarantee of protection by police against violence and (even more sadly) protection against violence by police. You can hide your head in the sand all you want, but politics has very real effects on the most basic ability of trans and intersex people to live a life with the most basic ability to subsist along with freedom from fear of physical violence   

i do not have my head in the sand. maybe you do? idk, like i said, i don't lose sleep at night over this stuff that i can't change. fortunately, i do know that it's all going to be some thing of history, and blaming my life on this kind of garbage isn't going to better me in anyway. i don't think black people gained their rights to abolish segregation by sitting around on their computers telling everyone their life sucks, did they? lots of them got beaten and murdered for what they've done, so it goes. i don't need a lesson on this anyway. i'm well aware of what the illusion that is says can be done and can't be done.

[Anthropos]

You know very well I was addressing your comment that politics don't matter, please do not twist my words. African-Americans received Civil Rights by realizing that politics do matter and fighting tooth and nail for them. History does not change because it is inevitable, history changes by mass political action. Your entire previous post read like a trip down the rabbit hole.

[V M]

 

Hi friends

That's enough idle bickering

Stay on topic and keep the conversation civil or this topic will be locked

Thank you

V M