How is being Intersex a sin as some fundys say?

[ByeBye]

It makes no sense I mean God created intersex bodies that way and it doesn't seem fair that intersex people "sin by just existing." Is it like God doesn't love them? just for existing and some fundys get on my nerves. I used to be a fundy until I came out as trans then I left my church knowing the people there would FLAY me if they found out the truth about me. Also when I was in church, I used to think Jesus was a girl on so many levels. I had to iterate that "HE was a SON" over and over and over because I could see a girl in Jesus and how come some fundys can't accept feminine men if Jesus (as a man as believed by most, has feminine attributes and they don't chuck it out?)

How is being born intersex a sin? 

[Tigger]

To some anything that is different is a sin, some faiths are just now accpeting and admitting that intersex people do exsist.

[Joelene9]

Matthew 19:12: Jesus said:
  For their some enunchs that are born of their mother's womb: and there some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

  A lot of christian faiths are recognizing the role that these intersex people are in our society and they are speaking out.  These intersexed people are mentioned in the first part of this passage, transgender people the third part. 
Joelene

[ToriJo]

I've not seen anyone say being intersex is a sin.

I have seen them say crossdressing is a sin.  I've seen them say SRS is a sin.  I've seen them say identifying as something other than your sex organs is a sin.  Essentially they believe being transsexual is a choice to sin and it's somehow related to homosexuality.

I also have seen them essentially say intersexed people should not have a romantic relationships.  Focus on the Family is big on that - their intersex web pages essentially say "Intersexed people have a hard walk and should live celibate and as singles."  I also suspect some in the Catholic church would say similar things.

As for Jesus not being a man, I'm not quite ready to go that far, although I would be willing to say that for the Father and the Holy Spirit, and even Adam prior to Eve.  That said, if Jesus was intersexed or otherwise, that wouldn't cause me any great crisis of faith.

[JayKyle]

I've not seen anyone say being intersex is a sin.

I have seen them say crossdressing is a sin.  I've seen them say SRS is a sin.  I've seen them say identifying as something other than your sex organs is a sin.  Essentially they believe being transsexual is a choice to sin and it's somehow related to homosexuality.

I also have seen them essentially say intersexed people should not have a romantic relationships.  Focus on the Family is big on that - their intersex web pages essentially say "Intersexed people have a hard walk and should live celibate and as singles."  I also suspect some in the Catholic church would say similar things.

As for Jesus not being a man, I'm not quite ready to go that far, although I would be willing to say that for the Father and the Holy Spirit, and even Adam prior to Eve.  That said, if Jesus was intersexed or otherwise, that wouldn't cause me any great crisis of faith.

And why should we live single and lonely just because god made us different?

[VeryGnawty]

It makes no sense I mean God created intersex bodies that way and it doesn't seem fair that intersex people "sin by just existing."

You should feel lucky that you require a condition to sin.  Some fundies believe that everyone is sinful by the very nature of being human.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Im 64  and intersexed so whats the big deal . well to some they dont accept anything that is looks or seems different. why , because of teaching that is way off the mark . & because they dont understand why we are the way we are so they dont .....wont ..... to accept us .

Oh well they miss out dont they on the beauty that is there in us as people,

Does not nature teach us there are so many differences about us , well yes the fact is they are blind & the blind lead them .

Get down & look at worms or some fish to name two then ask them the ? of why are they intersexed, see what they then say......oh oh thats different .  yea right, because it does not suit them to accept all of creation .& we are not a part of that as well...dont waste your time with them.....

...noeleena...

[Jamie D]

This is because the mind of the average fundamentalist is a mess of contridictions held together with the sticky tape of blind unquestioning faith.

Best bet is to ignore them unless they start running for government...then it's custard pie in the face time

Strawman argument.

Cite a single source condemning a congenital birth condition as "sinful."

[Sarah Louise]

I don't know of any Christian who says Intersexed is a sin.  Where have you heard that?

[Jamie D]

There aren't any...that's my entire point.

I'm sure I could explain it more if you'd like, possibly using easy to understand crayon drawings, but as we're all intelligent people here that would be far too condescending and rude of me.

If, as you claim, "... the average fundamentalist is a mess of contridictions held together with the sticky tape of blind unquestioning faith," but no doctrinal basis exists for this supposed tenet of faith, why is this an issue?

We in the trans community often complain about anti-trans bigotry.  How is this swipe against people of faith not bigotry in its own tight?

[eli77]

Close enough? http://rabble.ca/babble/lgbtq/national-post-runs-full-page-anti-gay-anti-transgender-ad

They don't use the word "sinful," opting for the euphemism "confused," but the meaning is still pretty clear (especially with "StopCorruptingChildren.com" at the bottom). Cool how people with enough money to run a full page ad in a national newspaper can still lack an understanding of basic human biology and/or the English language.

[dalebert]

This has been a very confusing thread for me, perhaps due to a misunderstanding of the vocabulary. I have come to understand intersex to refer to a physical state of the genitals or other sexual or secondary sex characteristics falling somewhere in between male & female. I'm basing this understanding on articles I've read that were linked from here at Susan's. It seems like people are using the term to describe some other things. Maybe it has broader use than I realized?

[Sarah Louise]

I guess I am using Intersexed as the condition my sibling had, birth certificate says Female, death certificate says Male.  It was a birth defect, they only lived a short time.

Not a "two spirit" issue.

Until we come to agreement what the term intersexed means, we can not have a reasonable discussion.

[eli77]

This has been a very confusing thread for me, perhaps due to a misunderstanding of the vocabulary. I have come to understand intersex to refer to a physical state of the genitals or other sexual or secondary sex characteristics falling somewhere in between male & female. I'm basing this understanding on articles I've read that were linked from here at Susan's. It seems like people are using the term to describe some other things. Maybe it has broader use than I realized?

Or unusual genetics like XXY or whatvs. But no, it doesn't have a broader use. See: "lack an understanding of basic human biology and/or the English language."

[Jamie D]

This has been a very confusing thread for me, perhaps due to a misunderstanding of the vocabulary. I have come to understand intersex to refer to a physical state of the genitals or other sexual or secondary sex characteristics falling somewhere in between male & female. I'm basing this understanding on articles I've read that were linked from here at Susan's. It seems like people are using the term to describe some other things. Maybe it has broader use than I realized?

I agree with your understanding.  "Intersex" relates to ambiguous genitalia and/or other genetic variations.

[MrTesto]

Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) reference to intersex conditions are more clearly against intersex people, mostly in what sorts of bodies are fit for service in the Temple. But the New Testament has a different theology of bodies, and in the "eunuchs for the Kingdom" comment, as well as Acts ch 8, there seems to be a real change from the Levitical code (which doesn't apply to Christians).

By the way - categorically assigning lack of intelligence to people based on their religious convictions - not cool. That does, however, indicate a lot about the person who trots out that sort of bigotry.

[ToriJo]

I'm not convinced old testiment was against intersexed.  In fact, I'd say one telling of the creation story would make me think Adam was intersexed.  As for temple service, there were a ton of disqualifications (including being born in the wrong family).

Why was there restrictions on temple service?  I have no idea truthfully.

(As for why intersexed people should live single - I don't think they should unless they want to. I definitely don't agree with Focus on the Family)

[Jamie D]

@Hell_Girl - smart move.

[Annah]

It makes no sense I mean God created intersex bodies that way and it doesn't seem fair that intersex people "sin by just existing." Is it like God doesn't love them? just for existing and some fundys get on my nerves. I used to be a fundy until I came out as trans then I left my church knowing the people there would FLAY me if they found out the truth about me. Also when I was in church, I used to think Jesus was a girl on so many levels. I had to iterate that "HE was a SON" over and over and over because I could see a girl in Jesus and how come some fundys can't accept feminine men if Jesus (as a man as believed by most, has feminine attributes and they don't chuck it out?)

How is being born intersex a sin?

I have never heard a fundamentalist call intersex people a sin.

I even emailed the most fundamentalist groups such as Focus on the Family and other anti LGBT groups. None of them have declared being born intersex as sinful.

Be careful to stereotype even those you disagree with lest you fall for their own semantics.

And when I use the word "intersex" I mean the actual meaning of the word. Not what other transgender people will say because their brain are female and their body is male so they are intersex. So when I use the word "intersex" I am meaning the current medical definition of intersex. Not two spirited or transgender or transsexual.

[Anthropos]

I have never seen, even among the most oppressive fundamentalist institutions, intersexuality listed as a sin. However, intersexuality is often conflated with ->-bleeped-<- by people who do not understand. A child is born with "ambiguous genitalia" and based upon a completely arbitrary determination of where "hypertrophied clitoris" ends and "male sex organs" begin, they are assigned either the gender of boy or girl. The "boy" or "girl" hits puberity and surprise! they identify as either the opposite gender they were assigned or neither gender. To the community the child grows up in, it appears that this child is transexual, even though the initial designation was completely arbitrary. Therefore, society tends to lump us all into the same category as being trans, even though there is a huge distinction between intersex and transgender, and therefore discrimination against one group often times leads to discrimination of the other.