How to be "more feminine"?

[Erin]

That's very odd. She should know that the average pre everything MTF is a (hyper)masculine male and inborn feminity is very, very rare in MTF's.

I don't think it's that rare and I was always very feminine like many of my ts friends.

[Keaira]

I think it may well be a 'counselling ploy'. My therapist shrink psychiatrist did EXACTLY that, and not only to me! It may well be he actually used this, to test our RESOLVE.
He told a tg friend (she is by married now) that he "could only see a man in a dress"... he told me, by making a sort of photographic shutter with his hands, that my hair were wrong, i.e. my face looked not like female, not for him at any rate etc. etc.
In my situation I had no option but to hang in there and just keep on coming back to him.
In the end... he switched about 180 deg. (after about 9 month) and told me I was one of his BEST transitioners!
I think it may well be 'old school' gate-keeping that this person is practicing with you.

In my case I got the idea, if I had run off for the 'big check-out', all he'd comment be: I was "not strong enough" to survive the ordeal of transitioning.
And make NO mistake... is very much just that. Go ask ANY ONE, it's no cake walk.
BTW, go look about you and see HOW MANY folks actually can not go through with it!
Getting stuck along the road and being most unhappy, taking poppers to handle GID, with no better idea after YEARS - what be the next thing to do... other then try sitting on the fence, with no resolve and lost in la-la-land.

As I said... I'm starting to understand that some of this behaviour might be to 'help' rather then to harm.
Just my experience...

I went though 6 councilor's because they were clueless about transsexuality. And I know, it's not that rare!
My last one tried really hard to learn from me. But when I finally got onto HRT I was damned if I was going to go though another unqualified councilor to kickstart my life. And in the end, I didn't. I went though a doctor and skipped the councilor altogether.

I also figured out that my biggest enemy to transition was myself and almost everyone important to me. Myself because I worried too much about how everyone thought of me. And everyone else because I gave them power over me.

[AbraCadabra]

I went though 6 councilor's because they were clueless about transsexuality. And I know, it's not that rare!
My last one tried really hard to learn from me. But when I finally got onto HRT I was damned if I was going to go though another unqualified councilor to kickstart my life. And in the end, I didn't. I went though a doctor and skipped the councilor altogether.

I also figured out that my biggest enemy to transition was myself and almost everyone important to me. Myself because I worried too much about how everyone thought of me. And everyone else because I gave them power over me.

I mentioned my shrink as he is the ONLY one qualified in SA to clear one for local, cost-free SRS. Which is bad news in more then one way. So he IS as qualified as they come - in SA.
It is a case, as ever so often, that we are FORCED to figure out what such a "therapist" wants to hear AND see.
And as you mentioned it can become VERY stressful, in fact downright scary. I was scared every time I had to see him.
Now having to go through 6 as in your case... sounds like needing first therapy in order to get therapy!
I'd figured out during some 9 month what he wanted - and so he got it.
HRT I did on the sly, not DIY but by prescription, yet NEVER mentioned it. He was anti HRT, only after SRS was his take... I freaked (cried), so I got another fat rebuke.
In any case I learned, "If you can't help yourself - you can't be helped" as the saying goes.

[Dale]

Alaina great video!

[Molly]

This past week I have been really focusing on my movements, and in doing so had an epiphany... I have no idea how to walk like a guy.  I'm not sure if I ever really "knew."  I've been walking one foot in front of the other for so long now, I can't even remember when I first began doing so.  And I've never walked with my elbows out, but rather tucked in close to my sides.  The only adjustment I've really made is to loosen up, and stand straighter.  I realized that that is why my hips are now swaying.

What I am finding impossible, though, is the arm swing.  I've noticed that if I hold one of my arms straight, the other swings at the elbow a lot more.  But it's not something I can force.  It just sort of happens.  The second I start thinking about it, it becomes stiff and unnatural.  And never, for some reason, do both arms swing at the elbow.

Allowing myself to simply loosen up physically, and the effects it's had on my movements... somehow it's given me a boost in confidence.  It's like, when I stiffen my body, it's as though I also tense up emotionally.  A wall has been raised, and I shuffle around like a marionette on strings.  A puppet for masculinity.  But when I divest myself of those strings, when I cut those cords and let myself move freely, suddenly the world seems just a little bit brighter.

The one thing I still can't stop myself from doing is changing my walk at work.  If I know a customer is behind me, I stiffen my walk.  This was especially noticeable a couple days ago when I was helping/flirting a cute girl whose number I wanted to get.  As I walked towards the back of the store to ask my boss a question, I forced my hips to stop swaying, in the event she was watching me go.  It wasn't that I wanted to appear more masculine, but because I didn't what to appear too overtly feminine in the eyes of an ostensibly heterosexual girl.  Thinking back on it, a little part of me is disappointed in myself for making the adjustment.  Not that it matters much... I never did get her number (because I didn't even ask).

Oh, and I also styled my eyebrows a bit.  Not a ton, but enough so that my face does look more feminine if I am also wearing makeup.  (The difference is definitely more less noticeable without.)  I intend to make them more feminine over the next several months, but do so subtly, so that only collectively, if compared to a past photo, will one notice a real difference.

Ah, and one last thing... I got an appointment with another GT.  She seemed heaps nicer than the other woman, just from what I could sense from our brief introductory phone call.  It's for next Wednesday, and I'm already excited.

[AbraCadabra]

During at least the early part of transition (2 years on...) we mostly tend to be VERY self-conscious, a lot of the time.

If going on HRT, surprise surprise, we go through all those awkward teenage notions too, as is often mentioned being the second puberty that happens during this time. Thankfully it is not as long as our first one!

Eventually we do become less and less self-conscious (just as any teen growing up) then what follows be: WHAT IS - IS.

Not every female walks like a model, in deed if she would, it might be considered rather odd - most of the time. Sexy as it might appear and look at the right time and situation.
Anything that does not come out of our more NATURAL behaviour, walk, speech, movements, etc. is picked up VERY quickly as "aufgesetzt" i.e. put-on/phoney and it will make people react in some way or another - mostly negative.

If we feel "right" - we usually act "right", and "right" would be VERY dependant on any given circumstance.
If one goes for e.g. a normal brisk walk, there be an odd aspect to it, mincing along like on a cat-walk, right?

Just a thought,
Axélle

[justmeinoz]

I would ask what she meant, and keep at her until you were satisfied with her explanation.  If you are not, tell her so and ask her how she defines 'man', woman', masculine' and 'feminine'.  That should tell you whether she is up to date.

Karen.

[GhostTown11]

//.  Why do you need to learn to be more feminine? It sounds like you were trying to fool your therapist and for that she was right in being concerned.

[A]

Swinging both arms "loosely" feels sort of like overdoing it/shouting for attention, at least in the beginning. It's normal, really, especially if, like me, you're used to having one arm locked by a bag or binder or stuff. And it's also perfectly normal to tend to hold distinctly feminine behaviours when still presenting as male. It would give off a bad image, mostly. That, or it might be seen as "very gay", which might be a problem, since you like women. But anyway, once you start presenting yourself as female, it should all be gone very quickly.

If I can give you this piece of advice, I think you should think very hard before flirting with women, considering where you stand now. I understand that for many, the desire to find a life partner is burning, but if you do look for a partner right now, you have a high chance of suffering... Not many heterosexual, or even bisexual, women, would readily accept their lover to transition. Undying love and memories with the person can very well save a long term relationship or marriage, but honestly, I don't think it's likely that a girlfriend of just a few months would take it very well.

I'd suggest waiting, but if that causes you too much suffering, then perhaps look for homosexual women who would understand you well. It's going to be a pain to have to come out before even getting in a relationship, but since you're really just beginning, I think that's your best chance. Plus, if you don't have a real relationship with her yet, if she dumps you because of your current body, it won't hurt as much, right?

[Molly]

A, it's difficult, because I've never had sex before as a man.  And for me at least, I feel like experiencing that is necessary.  I have to have had it in order to make a fully informed decision about transitioning, about who I am as a person.  Even though I expect myself to go "nope, can't do this" when I have it, it's still something I know I have to do before I commence HRT.

It's a really difficult tightrope to walk, though.  The thought of having to lie to someone who potentially cares about me just stresses me out.  I know that it's completely unfair to them.  But at the same time, I know I have to at least attempt to be a "boyfriend," even if I'd rather be her girlfriend.  Easier said than done, though, since I am terribly shy, and have never been on a serious date before.

[A]

In the end, it's all your choice, but I would personally not recommend it. I just know for sure deep inside that it would hurt too much and represent a long-lasting traumatising memory.

If you're sure you won't feel this way, then it's fine. I guess it can act as you say, as a confirmation.

[Julie Wilson]

I had my first appointment with a gender therapist yesterday.  Suffice it to say, it went terribly.  Didn't connect with her at all, and as a result could never really open up to her about my thoughts and feelings as of late.  At the end of the session, she basically brushed me off, telling me to come back to her when I was more certain.  In effect, I wasn't trans enough for her yet.

But she gave me homework nonetheless:  "Be more feminine."

Problem is, I am still very much hiding in the closet at large.  Even at home.  So, how do I do that without giving myself away too soon and drawing attention to myself?  Bit of a conundrum, methinks.

But still, besides the walk, beside the posture and the voice... how do I be more feminine?

You could buy a bra and hide it somewhere.  Find a place to put it on/stuff it to make your breasts larger.. right before your appointment.  Breasts are a big deal.  Also make sure you are clean-shaven before your appointment, grow your hair.. 

[Keaira]

You could buy a bra and hide it somewhere.  Find a place to put it on/stuff it to make your breasts larger.. right before your appointment.  Breasts are a big deal.  Also make sure you are clean-shaven before your appointment, grow your hair..

My last therapist noticed natural feminine tendencies about me. I eventually took the step of seeing him dressed as a woman. Which, in itself was a monumental step forward because I was walking though Ball State University in a skirt, blouse and make-up with all the students around.  But being feminine seems to come naturally. When you 'learn' to be more feminine it just doesn't seen the same. I had no clue what was feminine about me that everyone picked up on. I still don't!

If there is anything feminine about you, you've probably learned to hold some action or mannerism back. So you need to figure out if and what that is.


But even in my eyes, I'm not very feminine. There are some girls here who would make me look like a straight guy. So, what you see or think is probably different to what others see.

[A]

I don't think Noey Nooneson's idea is the best... If you do something special to "prove" things to your therapist, such as going dressed as a woman when it's not something that you've really been doing, it might tell the therapist that you have something to prove, that you're not ready yet, that you're being extravagant or impulsive, and according to the SOC, those are factors for prudence and wait for HRT, right?

I don't know how widespread that line of thought is, but my psychiatrist told me about a case where a person went all dressed especially for an appointment thinking it would help, but ended up being very disappointed learning that it would have no effect whatsoever on his opinion and the process.

[Julie Wilson]

If you are seeing a therapist about gender issues and you aren't willing to make any effort at all to present yourself to that therapist as your target sex then why on earth (if you are not willing to make any effort) should that therapist give you the go-ahead on anything?

I'm asking this of "A".

[A]

Uhm, that's not exactly what I meant. What I meant was not to do anything out of place FOR the therapist. For example, someone who would buy their first cross-gender outfit for the therapist and wear it for the first time for the therapist, all that whilst not being full-time.

Doing something out of one's habits specifically for a therapist tends to appear as though the person is trying to convince the therapist rather than get a honest judgement, and that might not please the professional in question. After all, the therapist wants to see how the patient is, not how the patient wants to be, right? And I don't think they're as narrow-minded as to let the person's appearance during the appointment guide them so much.

If I were a therapist, anyway, I would sure question and investigate the reasons for my patient "dressing up" especially for our appointments, and might feel as though that person is not being 100 % honest with me at first.

I just think that if Molly's going to make efforts to make herself more feminine, it's perfectly fine and probably very healthy, but not if she only "disguises" for the therapist. A psychologist once told me this: "You come see me for yourself. Do what feels best for you, not me. Once you start to do anything for my sake, or for your mother's sake, you start being terribly wrong and I don't think what we do together can be useful, from that point on." And I agree with her. She wasn't into gender therapy and that such issues were far from being the subject at hand, but I think it applies just as well to Molly's situation.

But I'm only speaking from my own opinion and experience. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Molly]

I don't intend to "dress up" just to see a therapist, because I'm not even comfortable going out in public en femme yet.  That, and I don't want to seem like I have something to prove (even if I technically do).  Really, my efforts to become more feminine or so that I can align my mental state with how I should be acting (even if I only make subtle changes for now).  The point of this thread was that this first therapist told me to be more feminine... and it struck me that I had no idea where to begin.  And honestly, that scared the hell out of me.  It put the fear of "not female enough; never will be" in me, and caused a sharp jab of immediate doubt.

It made me wonder, and not in a good way.

While I think deep down I've always felt female, I was never quite able to grasp that fact.  As much as I knew I was different, I always assumed I was male.  So I outwardly attempted to act masculine, to be "male," and in turn consciously suppressed any feminine sensibilities that did not align with my avatar of purported maleness.  And now at last I can see the Berlin Wall of bull->-bleeped-<- I've erected.  There is a dam holding me back, segregating myself from the truest form of me.  But I have been oppressed for so long, I have built that wall up so high, that I no longer know how to tear it down.  I cannot figure which brick to kick out first.

And that's why I came to you guys, in a fit of desperation, to discover my way back through.  I've got a borehole to drill, a well to tap—in hopes that a little me, the real me, will began to leak out once I do.  And as the natural process of erosion occurs, so that trickle will become a flood, punching and bleeding and streaming through that dam, laying it to waste until it's mortared stones are no more.

I can feel my femininity there.  I can sense it as there, as inherent as my ability to breath.  But I cannot see it yet.  I cannot for the life of me see it.  And if I cannot yet see it, then how can anyone else?  So this... this was/is me in search of an auger and a press.

Because I've got a goddamn wall to tear down.

[Molly]

As you can see, I've got a bit of a flair for the dramatic.  And for hyperbole.  And for purple prosaic metaphors.

I blame the writer in me.

[Julie Wilson]

Doing something out of one's habits specifically for a therapist tends to appear as though the person is trying to convince the therapist rather than get a honest judgement, and that might not please the professional in question. After all, the therapist wants to see how the patient is, not how the patient wants to be, right? And I don't think they're as narrow-minded as to let the person's appearance during the appointment guide them so much.

If someone wanted a hormone or a surgery letter...  The way to get that letter is to present as one's target sex during their therapy sessions.  I am not making this a moral issue, rather some people, especially people who want their hormone go-ahead or whatever...  They think, "I will be able to pass better after I am on HRT and I don't want to try to pass without HRT.  But showing up to the therapist (at every session) dressed, etc. as one's target sex will cause the therapist to be more likely to give the "go-ahead" or paperwork and more likely sooner than later.

Just saying.  Someone may be able to use this to his or her advantage.

[Alainaluvsu]

Aww. I was there. That wall comes down as a process, and that process really does start when you truly stop caring what other people think. Be yourself. However, the catch 22 here is that estrogen does shift your emotional state in a way that makes you seem more feminine... well it's either that or the lack of testosterone, not sure which. Obviously you can't do that without HRT.

My therapist gave me an assignment when I first started. I had to write an essay on why I feel the need to transition. It caused me to do a lot of soul searching, and honestly I think it was the single best thing to convince him that it was what was going to make me happy. I'd do that, and bring it to your next counselor.

Oh, and I never had to present as female to start HRT. In fact, the first time I presented as female to my counselor was over a year after he wrote my letter.