GLBT should not hate Christians, Nor should Christians Hate GLBT

[Snowpaw]

I guess this is suppose to let me know where I stand here.

Yeah you stand in good company. I don't know what I am anymore. I've steered closer to reading more into new age stuff but it doesn't mean I think you are wrong. Just hold the faith, be who you are and stick around. I mean that's all anyone can really do right?

[SarahM777]

It's just so hard. I just end up feeling like some sort of freak. And it's nothing new. I just wonder if I will ever feel any different.

[Elsa]

at the end of the day you have to do what makes you sleep at night.

if you believe in Christ then believe he loves you for who you are and not for what others think you should be.

am not that religious and have never been for the last 15-18 odd years and have only gone for mass and to church to keep my parents happy.

once there, I spend the rest of my time either asleep or trying not to - sadly I can't stand any sort of religious meeting of any religion - I believe in God and in Christ but not people and definitely not any beliefs people have - I respect them for their beliefs but would never tolerate anyone forcing it upon me.

I am transitioning and have long since stopped caring about what others think and although I am still in boy mode - I can feel that day approaching when even in boy mode no-one would see me as guy but they would see the real me - and I can only pray and hope that day comes soon so that even if I have to go out in boy mode I would not hate myself for who I am or the way I look.

Till then I am going to do everything possible to make myself happy and I suggest you do the same girl.

You are not a freak you are a human being first and if you believe in God, then believe that he loves you.

PS: I just realized something: if God created us in his image, and if we are transgender doesn't that mean God is transgender too??? 

::hugs::
Alexia.

[SarahM777]

I've spent way to much time alone,I should be used to it by now. No friends at school. Not one of my brothers and sisters have not talked to me in years. No kids even though I was married twice and the first lasted less than two years. The second ended twelve years ago after a grand total of six years and the last two were spent dealing with her alcoholism. Those relatives only talked to me once after the funeral and that was about a vase. I work at home and part of that is taking care of my elderly mom. Not exactly a life I would wish on someone else.

I've known enough heartache and pain to last two live times. It seems like every time I can finally see some happiness coming into my life something comes along to crush it right out of existence. It's not my lot in life to have that kind of happiness,mine is to have heartache,pain and sorrow. It's all I've ever really know.

[Elsa]

Hon, am sorry for what you're going through. I know things are difficult now but put that chin up and punch anyone in the face who messes with you - well not literally the last bit of course cause that's a felony unless its in self-defense.

But anyways what I trying to say is don't give up, keep trying and be yourself once you are happy - happiness and people would come to you.

I know this is probably easier said that done but a lot of people who I care about (some on this board) have told me this - everytime bad things happen you need to get back on your feet. - well not exactly but still more or less what they said  (sorry everyone for the improper quote)

I know this easier said than done but just give it a try am sure you would find happiness - just do things that make you happy.


::::big hug::::
Alexia

[SarahM777]

Thanks for the hugs

I am just feeling very old and worn out. It is so hard seeing so many others going forward and knowing how much I was ripped off for,I could have had everything done and paid cash for it. It just gets harder and harder every year to keep picking myself up. It's like someone keeps moving the finish line on me. I guess I am just hoping for someone to just walk with me. I know no one else can change my circumstances,those I am the only one who can do any thing about them to a degree. Sometimes we all just need someone else to hold out a hand to get us through another day.

[tekla]

It's not about where you stand, it's about where everyone is standing.  And, why I like that quote, is that ain't nobody standing, we're moving at the speed of light, so it's about that separation.  There are many different splits in the world and people are having a harder and harder time reconciling what they don't believe in - makes no difference what that is they are believing in.

[SarahM777]

Perhaps you are right,I'll have to think about that. I need to remember that so many here have been hurt so deeply by others,especially fundamentalists,and if I remember to take into account that I too have something that took a very,very long time to get over. It would be so easy to take what he did and apply it to everyone else,even though they never had anything to do with it.

One person in my life caused more damage to me then any one else. Because of what he did it set me back almost fifteen years. Once that time frame was done I was suffering from Stockholm Syndrome,I was so out of my mind I should have been institutionalized. To this day I have memories that are buried so deep,and still affect me but I don't know what they are. I have an very strong suspicion that they deal with some Satanistic rituals. The memories are darker and more evil than anything that Hollywood outs out. They are somewhat the same but at the same time so far different. I don't want to go there,they scare the hell out of me. I have never before known anyone else that was so evil,cruel and mean spirited before and I hope I never meet anyone like that again. The thing is he was gay. But at the same time he was involved in the dark occult also. (If he didn't deal with the alcoholism and drugs,he's most likely dead by now and I really don't want to know) How do I know the memories are true? That is for another time,but I do have confirmation that even earlier memories have shown to be 100% accurate,with date,time and circumstances and also having five others who had the same thing happen with the same person. The down side to having a photographic memory. (That was my uncle)

I didn't know what he was involved with at the beginning. We met at work,he was my boss,we both were single and started going to the Disco's. He told me was Catholic,but he left out that he had left the church. Thinking he was a friend and I could not afford the apartment by myself I allowed him to move in with me. It was the worst choice I have ever made. The choice was my own doing. The consequences of that choice are both mine and his.

If you had met me before that time you would have seen one of the most naive "little goody two shoes" and dumb as a box of rocks about life outside of what I knew. And it just had to do with how my life had been before that. I had been so sheltered before that. Being the oldest and having to take care of my five brothers and sisters on the weekend didn't leave much time for anything else. Then getting into high school and working 20-30 hours after school,you just don't have much time for anything else. Even things like watching TV was something I didn't do. Didn't smoke,didn't drink,didn't do drugs, and I was a virgin. Never saw a concert before that. Most of the music before that was the bubble gum rock. But at 19 my life got turned around,turned inside out and backwards.

It would be so easy to apply what he did to all,but it for sure is not the truth that all are like him.
I need to remember it is to easy to fall into that trap,and it's so easy to see others through those colored glasses. It took meeting others to let go of that fear that I had,to see that not all are like him. The hardest part is seeing someone else the same height and build,it sets off to many alarm bells. It's something I have to work through.

[Isabelle]

Realistically speaking, no one should hate anyone, that's a given. When it comes to complex institutionalized superstition (like religion) though, it gets tricky. Hate is, in my opinion, a cross product of ignorance. At its core, all religion is based upon ignorance. Before anyone gets grumpy at me for making this statement, let me qualify it.
Ignorance means "The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed" At the time most religions were invented, that was the actual state of human kind's level of science/knowledge with regard to our place in the universe, where we came from, and where we're going.
Modern religions are only tolerated in civil society by virtue of its adherents ability to "cherry pick" from their texts. That is to say, as culture changes, religions survive by scraping their barrels of beliefs for "teachings" that can be construed as relevant in today's culture. There is a correlation between a nations average IQ and its level of religiosity, the correlation shows, the higher one value is, the lower the other is. Although it is "true" (statistically), that irreligious people are more intelligent than their religious counterparts there are a lot of very complex forces at play, and also correlation does not equal cause. What is known (quantifiable) though, is the less religious a person is, (and the higher educated they become) the more liberal and accepting they are of differences in lifestyles. In short, for the hatred to go, people just need to be better access to (quality) higher education, everything else will sort itself out naturally
Its time to put "The Bumper Book of Bronze Age Bedtime Stories" down and put on our thinking caps.
(mods please note I was very careful in my wording to not flame any particular supernatural belief system)

[Kevin Peña]

Isabelle, you are quite bright. I agreed with your point 100%. Education is the pathway to a better future, but that opens up another can of worms: the institution of individually-funded education. Honestly, as long as society is focused on grades and money instead of knowledge for knowledge's sake, that might never change. Our best hope is that people open their eyes and realize that they don't need to go to structured, formalized educational facilities to become educated. Seriously, the college application process is harder than their courses. Geez.

[Shang]

Realistically speaking, no one should hate anyone, that's a given. When it comes to complex institutionalized superstition (like religion) though, it gets tricky. Hate is, in my opinion, a cross product of ignorance. At its core, all religion is based upon ignorance. Before anyone gets grumpy at me for making this statement, let me qualify it.
Ignorance means "The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed" At the time most religions were invented, that was the actual state of human kind's level of science/knowledge with regard to our place in the universe, where we came from, and where we're going.
Modern religions are only tolerated in civil society by virtue of its adherents ability to "cherry pick" from their texts. That is to say, as culture changes, religions survive by scraping their barrels of beliefs for "teachings" that can be construed as relevant in today's culture. There is a correlation between a nations average IQ and its level of religiosity, the correlation shows, the higher one value is, the lower the other is. Although it is "true" (statistically), that irreligious people are more intelligent than their religious counterparts there are a lot of very complex forces at play, and also correlation does not equal cause. What is known (quantifiable) though, is the less religious a person is, (and the higher educated they become) the more liberal and accepting they are of differences in lifestyles. In short, for the hatred to go, people just need to be better access to (quality) higher education, everything else will sort itself out naturally
Its time to put "The Bumper Book of Bronze Age Bedtime Stories" down and put on our thinking caps.
(mods please note I was very careful in my wording to not flame any particular supernatural belief system)

I'd like to argue with the basis of some New Age religions.  I'm Pagan and happily so, and even take my beliefs seriously.  However, I'm a science nerd and adore history [and set to graduate in December with a teaching degree].  I love to learn and have always loved to learn and am constantly learning new things.  I'm also quite liberal and very accepting of different lifestyles [within reason; some don't strike me as right but those are ones that involve illegal things]. 

Not all religions require a closed-mind or ignorance.  You can be very well-versed/well-learned and still believe in some sort of religion or spirituality. 

[Kevin Peña]

So, Arawn, science nerd and religious? I honestly think that sun worshipers had the most sensible idea. Perfect blend of science and religion. The sun gives us warmth, light, and energy for plants to perform photosynthesis and supply food chains. Without the sun, we'd be dead and cold to boot. If anything deserves to be worshiped, it's the sun.

Also, I can actually see the sun, so that helps with its credibility. 

[Shang]

So, Arawn, science nerd and religious? I honestly think that sun worshipers had the most sensible idea. Perfect blend of science and religion. The sun gives us warmth, light, and energy for plants to perform photosynthesis and supply food chains. Without the sun, we'd be dead and cold to boot. If anything deserves to be worshiped, it's the sun.

Also, I can actually see the sun, so that helps with its credibility. 

Yeah, science nerd and spiritual, lol. -shrug- I reached my spiritual conclusions through years of research and personal happenings that were unable to be debunked by science [I look to science first (psychology included) and if it fails, I look for other possible explanations.]  I also never say anything is a fact [including science] nor do I say "belief".  I'm more on "ideas" and that I have a good "idea" of things in my life...I also don't say anything is 100% certain because things change and evolve and other things pop up that can discount something prior. 

I'm also really big on the "what you believe is true for you, but not necessarily for others" [when it comes to spirituality or lack of spirituality].  I've been told it's kind of a pansy thing to say and it means I don't really 'believe' what I 'believe', but oh well.  No point in getting irritated over what other people believe [unless it endangers the life of another creature.]

[Kevin Peña]

But by that logic, the fact that things change could have changed so that things no longer adjust. Thus, making it impossible for things to go back to the way they were since the rule about things changing changed to make a concretely ruled universe a long time ago. So for all we know, there are 100% certainties in the universe now.

Sorry, i couldn't resist. 


Of course, you can believe what ever you want.

[Isabelle]

Not all religions require a closed-mind or ignorance

I'm struggling to come up with any definition of religion that doesn't require aspects of both.

[Shantel]

Its time to put "The Bumper Book of Bronze Age Bedtime Stories" down and put on our thinking caps.
(mods please note I was very careful in my wording to not flame any particular supernatural belief system)

You don't flame anyone with your own beliefs and comments, but I feel compelled to point out that "The Bumper Book of Bronze Age Bedtime Stories" as you refer to it appears to betray the same insufferable arrogance and hypocrisy as do those who denigrate transgender people or people of color for being different. Sometimes it's best not to expose one's own bias's by denigrating the religious beliefs of some simply because you are either unable to share those beliefs or you enjoy mocking those who do by insinuating that they may be less educated or less intelligent because they do hold to certain beliefs. It appears that you are just flaming yourself!

[Isabelle]

but I feel compelled to point out that "The Bumper Book of Bronze Age Bedtime Stories" as you refer to it appears to betray the same insufferable arrogance and hypocrisy as do those who denigrate transgender people or people of color for being different

The term I picked wasn't specific to any supernatural belief system. When you say "refer to it" I'm not sure exactly which text you think I'm referring to. It was merely my way of pointing out the majority of these texts are very very old and as such, are not particularly applicable in modern civilization especially considering we have far more reliable methods of obtaining knowledge to help us form opinions. At no point did I mock anyone.

[justmeinoz]

Given some of the pronouncements by opponents of marriage equality here I will wait and see what the Churches actually do.  The recent announcement by the Pope that being gay is a sign of an insufficiently developed person, leaves me shaking my head in disbelief.  This, coming from a former member of the Hitler Youth is too much.  As far as I am concerned the former church has just been reduced to the status of a cult.

[Joann]

I'm struggling to come up with any definition of religion that doesn't require aspects of both.

I like the terms "Common" and "Unique".
Theres no negative condonation to either.
Just add your prefix/ suffix.
Common religion/  Unique religion/spirituality  ect.

[Shantel]

The term I picked wasn't specific to any supernatural belief system. When you say "refer to it" I'm not sure exactly which text you think I'm referring to. It was merely my way of pointing out the majority of these texts are very very old and as such, are not particularly applicable in modern civilization especially considering we have far more reliable methods of obtaining knowledge to help us form opinions. At no point did I mock anyone.

It's always difficult to know for certain the true intent of another individuals posted comments when one cannot hear tone and tenor of the comments being made or observe the body language of the speaker, thats just one of the reasons I abstain from the religious and political threads for the most part. There's usually nothing I can say that won't create some ill feelings. Although I'm not religious myself I do find that the old testament appears to be an excellent record of mankind's failure to achieve perfection under the law, there is a lot of common sense in the proverbs such as the one that says, "The borrower becomes the slave of the lender!" My life's experience says amen to that! The new testament is the answer to mankind's redemption from failure. There are prophecies in both that speak rather loudly to current times as new world events unfold almost daily, but for any of it to be meaningful, one has to look for it with an open mind and heart. Not being given to criticism of others, I do understand that life on the big rock in these times is filled with too much busyness for many to take the time or even have a desire to read the scriptures. My hope for us all is that as we strive to become congruent and some even attractive as women and men, that we don't project unflattering ugliness toward others based on our own lack of understanding or personal dislike of what some find as uplifting and wonderful.