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Why so much hate toward gender benders?

Started by suzifrommd, June 30, 2012, 11:48:23 AM

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What is the main reason is there so much anger toward male genderbending?

Jealous. They wish they could do it.
Makes them face their own homosexual/transgendered feelings.
Feel like feminine men are not pulling their weight. ("I had to be tough. You should too.")
Religious or moral. It goes against the "natural order of things"
Afraid a changing world will force them to be less masculine.
Some reason other than the above

suzifrommd

Why is there so much hate and anger toward people who push society's gender limits?

Openly expressed anger is common, and violence and even murder exists. Most of this seems directed toward males who dare to do something feminine (though there are exceptions, Brandon Teena, e.g.)
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Sephirah

I think a big reason has nothing to do with the person they're angry or hateful towards. I think that some people's lives just plain suck and they need a focus to project all that self-hatred and pent up anger on. More to do with wanting an easy target. And folks who are seen as already stigmatised or persecuted present one of the easiest. It bypasses conscience because it's easier to justify - usually using one or more of the reasons above.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

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LordKAT

Same reason people have fear, ignorance.
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Pica Pica

I'd say it is because lots of gender benders are loud and annoying.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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ElusiveAppellation

I'm gonna say religion and the associated socially conservative norms.

Since any measure of deviance, in the sense of deviating from the cisnormative and heteronormative model, is an abomination to most true believers in the conservative faiths. This is one of the main reasons I'm a heathen. :3
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King Malachite

I chose the religion one.  At least in the Christian religion the Bible has been used inappropriately to justify so much hate and what isn't in the Bible some people claim to speak on God's behalf as if they just got through Skyping with Him.
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~RoadToTrista~

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~RoadToTrista~

Why, do you think that everyone who is like that is just born that way, or has some sort of insecurity? Look at our past. It takes generations for things to be accepted in social norm. Look at criminals. Usually they're raised in ->-bleeped-<-holes. You think that if you were born in the 50's you'd have the same morals and beliefs as you do now? Influence is so complex, maybe you were taught that it was wrong because of the obviously malicious intent. Because of how others were taught, you were taught differently.

Quote from: Laura91 on July 01, 2012, 12:22:13 AM
"well, did you ever think for yourself?"

Seems like they do to me. Just as you and I are stubborn about our beliefs, so are they.

Not that I'm trying to justify any of it or anything.
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PrincessKnight

I think people are just stuck in their ways. Previous generations, mostly, as well as current generations. They think it's wrong not just for religious reasons, but because they think that males should be men and females should be women. Anything else, they think, goes against social norms and are therefore wrong. Perhaps they feel a need to preserve the staus quo- that men should be tough and rough, that women should be gentle and delicate.
For instance, from Emily Post:"The attributes of a great lady may still be found in the rule of the four S's: Sincerity, Simplicity, Sympathy, and Serenity."
Manners are considered important in a "civilised" society, and those who do not go along with them are seen as undignified and rude. The same goes for genderbending: by refusing to conform to the behaviors of your perceived gender- such as a woman who burps, drinks beer, works with her hands, and never wears skirts- may be seen as rude and undignified. But across time and cultures, manners and gender roles chnge, which is why women are "allowed" to be much more assertive now than they used to, and men who prefer to stay at home to raise the kids may be seen as desirable.
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SourCandy

The question is flawed, It's not that their is so much hate towards something, it's that hate exist and hate naturally goes towards people they fundamentally cannot understand. The difference between now and a few hundred years ago is that it's no longer socially okay to hate a lot more things. So what hate that is "allowed" socially is becoming more apparent through the lack of hate elsewhere.

A good example of when something becomes "allowed" is post 9/11 when anyone who was honestly slightly Arab could have been attacked (a lot of people were), This shows that fundamentally the people that hate aren't ever going to change becasue hate is as old as time itself. Whenever they see a chance to oppress people to make their own superiority evident they shall take it no matter what the case.

There is simply no logic that they have, They have excuses to hate. Time doesn't really change any of it. If it were allowed they'd still be beating up and running black people out of their shops, ect.

What makes someone hate others? It's mostly about being a sheep that goes along with the primal sense of group mentalities (Which ultimately is the "Us VS. Them" track of thinking), How you are raised will effect it though (be it towards or away, and even then it's not a 100% obvious case how things effect people).

Meh, That's just my opinion though x3
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suzifrommd

Quote from: SourCandy on July 01, 2012, 09:59:13 AM
It's not that their is so much hate towards something, it's that hate exist and hate naturally goes towards people they fundamentally cannot understand. The difference between now and a few hundred years ago is that it's no longer socially okay to hate a lot more things.

I think you have something there. When I was a kid, you could hate black folks, jews, russians, you name it. Now that kind of hate is frowned upon. Gays and trans folks though, still open season in many places.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Amazon D

do ""we"" hate??? the haters?
What does that make us?   :embarrassed:

Can we just love everyone and see their views and not judge them and only judge ourselves because it is us who need to heed the words we try to tell others.  I believe we can only change us and if what we do or say speaks to another in a positive way, then that is from above working with us as the vehicles for change. We get no credit for that!

I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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crazy old bat

Quote from: Amazon D on July 01, 2012, 10:52:37 AM
do ""we"" hate??? the haters?
What does that make us?   :embarrassed:

Can we just love everyone and see their views and not judge them and only judge ourselves because it is us who need to heed the words we try to tell others.  I believe we can only change us and if what we do or say speaks to another in a positive way, then that is from above working with us as the vehicles for change. We get no credit for that!
Hug a hater!
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suzifrommd

Quote from: Jaime on July 01, 2012, 11:20:35 AM
Hug a hater!

Just make don't do it while he's busy punching out a gay guy because you might get an elbow in the face. Wait 'til he's done.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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crazy old bat

Quote from: agfrommd on July 01, 2012, 11:23:51 AM
Just make don't do it while he's busy punching out a gay guy because you might get an elbow in the face. Wait 'til he's done.
Jump up high on their back and surprise hug 'em from behind.
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Amazon D

Quote from: Laura91 on July 01, 2012, 11:40:11 AM
I can't wrap my head around this concept. So, if some scumbag beats the hell out of someone or even to the point of death,  what are you supposed to say? "well, gosh golly gee, this is just who they are: a violent scumbag and they need a hug."

I don't think so. That person deserves a good ass beating. Being passive does you no favors at all. Yeah, it would be nice if everyone respected one another and minded their own business, but we do not live in such a world nor we will ever live in that world.

Plus, there are plenty of people who have zero desire to change so you may as well be talking to a brick wall. (this statement could be applied to myself.) I will never, ever, ever believe in "turning the other cheek" "being passive", etc. If a situation comes up where you need to take action to defend yourself or possibly someone else then that is what needs to be done.

Being passive could land you six feet under and there is no way I would let that happen if I can help it.

Excuse me violence is different than simply hating.

ok back to the threads topic
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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suzifrommd

Quote from: Amazon D on July 01, 2012, 12:53:54 PM
Excuse me violence is different than simply hating.

ok back to the threads topic

Actually, what I had in mind when I posted the thread topic (though, Amazon, your comments and point of view are welcome, appreciated and interesting) was the kind of anger that leads to violence. I find it easier to understand the fear-based hate from people who don't understand trans and gay people than I can the kind of white hot anger that leads them to harass, assault, and murder.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Amazon D

Quote from: Laura91 on July 01, 2012, 01:05:07 PM
It is not violence for its own sake. It is self defense.

nothing wrong with self defense whoever you are.
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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Amazon D

Quote from: agfrommd on July 01, 2012, 01:26:04 PM
Actually, what I had in mind when I posted the thread topic (though, Amazon, your comments and point of view are welcome, appreciated and interesting) was the kind of anger that leads to violence. I find it easier to understand the fear-based hate from people who don't understand trans and gay people than I can the kind of white hot anger that leads them to harass, assault, and murder.

yes it seems you have answered your question. ignorance causing hate is most likely just that while people who want to hurt us don't seem to have hate as much as a mental problem which seems to make them prone to violence.
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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