Passing with restrooms

[JohnAlex]

So I've been on T for over 4 months now.  but for some reason I still get confused about whether I pass or not in different situations.
If I'm wearing a binder, I feel like I probably pass so I always use the mens.
But sometimes in hot weather I just wear a sports bra. and then I don't think I pass, so I don't know which restroom to use then. I still get "he'd" which confuses me even more.

I live in an RV park, where to use the showers we have to walk to the shower facilities. And I never wear my binder to or from the showers, so I always assume I am better off / safer using the women's.  But one time I freaked out a lady in restroom who didn't see me but heard my voice and thought there was a guy in the women's showers.  So obviously my voice is getting to the point now where I can't talk if I use the women's room.
But I still don't know if I would feel safe using men's showers and not binding. and I really don't want to bind after I first get out of shower because it's so humid in shower rooms, I would just sweat too much.
Also, the shower curtains in the restroom are not quite as wide as the doorway is, so, potentially, someone could see you through the edge, also, sometimes people just open shower curtains accidentally.  So that really concerns me about using the men's.

So I just don't know what I should do here.

[supremecatoverlord]

Use the Men's room. You're a guy.

I can see the issue with showering, but you may just have to keep a towel close by to cover up quickly after a shower and if anyone tries to invade.

It's pretty obvious from your post that you're only using the women's restroom because of issues you're having with self confidence anyway.

[JohnAlex]

I have no confidence when it comes to passing sometimes.  I'm much more afraid of being thought of as a girl showering in the men's room than a man showering in the women's.

[MayoiNeko]

Here's my take on it (and yes it is a little sexist but society in general will always be)

If you're in the women's room and someone mistakes you for a man, they will probably be scared/anxious etc
If you're in the men's and someone mistakes you for a woman (which sounds less likely anyway).. chances are they won't care, or at the worst will be curious.

So yeah, just use the mens.

[Nygeel]

Use what you feel comfortable with. If you're getting "he'd" a lot, go for the men's. If people are misgendering you a lot and reading you as female, then use the women's. If you feel uncomfortable using the gendered bathrooms and there's a gender neutral one, use that.

[Charlizard]

Use the Men's room. You're a guy.

[Ayden]

I'm gonna go against popular opinion and say if you are showering in a public place, only use the men's showers if you are sure its a safe place. Yes, you identify as male, but others won't always respect that. Don't put yourself in a dangerous situation. If its safe, go to the men's. Since you are pre-op, if you have to use the women's for safety reasons, you won't have too much trouble.

[AdamMLP]

If it was me I'd use the female ones just because if someone questioned it and I wasn't binding I could "prove" that I belonged there.  If I used the mens and got seen in the shower then there'd be no way to claim that I belonged there other than trying to explain that I was trans and I doubt that'd go down well in a hurried situation like that.

[mm]

JohnAlex, I know you want to be seen as a guy and use the men's. I would use the men's if you consider it safe for you.  I know you don't want to wear your binder to and from the shower house for several reasons.  By using the men's you will be seen as a guy in all your activities in the RV park.  You need to feel that you have a good chance of remaining stealth while in the shower with the shower curtain that is there. Is there enough room that you can get undressed/dress with your back in the direction of any breaks in the curtain?  Good luck to you.

[supremecatoverlord]

If it was me I'd use the female ones just because if someone questioned it and I wasn't binding I could "prove" that I belonged there. 

I know this is a tad late, but I had to comment on this because:
It seems sort of demeaning to do something like that to yourself though, doesn't it?

Plus he could just be a guy with really terrible gynecomastia or some other condition. I doubt most people would ask many questions if he said he had a medical condition.

[Sara Thomas]

Pardon me... but I'll weigh in...

Firstly: Men (normally) don't spend much time checking each other out in the restroom... in fact, the less they look at one another the happier everyone is.

Secondly: If a man did think something (very unlikely), he would be less likely still to make a fuss over it.

Opinion based on 45+ yrs. of using the mens room.

You'll be fine.

Sadie out.

[Ayden]

I know this is a tad late, but I had to comment on this because:
It seems sort of demeaning to do something like that to yourself though, doesn't it?

Plus he could just be a guy with really terrible gynecomastia or some other condition. I doubt most people would ask many questions if he said he had a medical condition.

For me, as I was one who said to use the women's room, I can say I wasn't trying to be demeaning. It isn't about questioning JohnAlex at all, and I wish I could honestly say "yeah, go for it, you're a man!" but I think everyone who said not to was thinking about his safety. Yes, he is male and I certainly understand the feeling, but just because he identifies as male doesn't mean that anyone else will respect that and it could make for a bad situation. To add to it, depending on what state (assuming he lives in the US) JohnAlex could be arrested if someone complained because it is illegal to expose yourself to someone of the opposite sex. Whether not he identifies as male, the government doesn't see that. Lastly, I have lived in a similar place and I can say in my experience there were some people who had rough lots in life and a few who were actually quite dangerous.

With these things in mind, I recommended against it. It's bad situation but I can't honestly recommend something that may cause him to be hurt. I feel fairly safe in saying that was others motivation as well.

[supremecatoverlord]

For me, as I was one who said to use the women's room, I can say I wasn't trying to be demeaning. It isn't about questioning JohnAlex at all, and I wish I could honestly say "yeah, go for it, you're a man!" but I think everyone who said not to was thinking about his safety. Yes, he is male and I certainly understand the feeling, but just because he identifies as male doesn't mean that anyone else will respect that and it could make for a bad situation. To add to it, depending on what state (assuming he lives in the US) JohnAlex could be arrested if someone complained because it is illegal to expose yourself to someone of the opposite sex. Whether not he identifies as male, the government doesn't see that. Lastly, I have lived in a similar place and I can say in my experience there were some people who had rough lots in life and a few who were actually quite dangerous.

With these things in mind, I recommended against it. It's bad situation but I can't honestly recommend something that may cause him to be hurt. I feel fairly safe in saying that was others motivation as well.

I was talking about the implied "binder lifting" comment that Alex made.
Using the the women's restroom isn't demeaning on it's own, because technically, it's just a restroom - whatever, man. However, going to the women's restroom just because you have parts to prove your a "woman" is sort of demeaning to your own identity.
No one should be invading on your privacy regardless of which bathroom you use. I think they are much more likely to get arrested than you are unless you are a person who intentionally trying to be an exhibitionist.

[dky]

Hey man,
Sounds like a tough situation. First, I think Sadie is right that men don't generally look at anyone else
Second, you need to put your safety first.
If you are seen as a guy in the rv park by basically everyone, there aren't sketchy men with the feeling they might get violent on you bc they know already you are trans or the shower curtain situation is so bad they truly might see you and you can't stand different and change that possibility, you basically, reasonably feel safe, use the mens. Notice I didn't say if you feel comfortable bc I think it will be uncomfortable for a while using the mens.seems to me thats part of transition.
If your safety is an issue in using the mens, don't use it.while men rarely look and women might get scared of you, women will likely just yell, men might beat you. Sucks but thats our culture for you. Can you figure some way to do like a solar shower in your own place?
I did hat in a really old rv I lived in.the bathroom floor got fitted with a drain that I hooked  up aplumbing tube and made that drain outside..total pain but it was private.
Or maybe the city you live has a pool or gym where you can buy showers for cheap, go as yourself ie a man and do that, ask if theres any dividers first obviously.then keep a towel right there for around your shoulders, dress and undress in the bathroom stall.I know two guys who used locker rooms that way pre surgery.anyhow best of luck.

[AdamMLP]

I was talking about the implied "binder lifting" comment that Alex made.
Using the the women's restroom isn't demeaning on it's own, because technically, it's just a restroom - whatever, man. However, going to the women's restroom just because you have parts to prove your a "woman" is sort of demeaning to your own identity.

I was saying that if you weren't binding to start and were unsure which to use then go with use the female restroom, not actually removing your binder to show your chest.  Yeah it is pretty demeaning I suppose and not something everyone would be comfortable with, but it's how I feel as someone who passes fairly often but rarely binds.  If I have to go into a female toilet then I make sure I'm either not binding or have (still female) ID on me, so if I get questioned I can either get my ID out or just flatten my shirt against my chest.  It wouldn't be pleasant but I think I'd find it preferable to having someone try and drag me out of the door by my collar again.  Just my opinion though.

[supremecatoverlord]

I was saying that if you weren't binding to start and were unsure which to use then go with use the female restroom, not actually removing your binder to show your chest.  Yeah it is pretty demeaning I suppose and not something everyone would be comfortable with, but it's how I feel as someone who passes fairly often but rarely binds.  If I have to go into a female toilet then I make sure I'm either not binding or have (still female) ID on me, so if I get questioned I can either get my ID out or just flatten my shirt against my chest.  It wouldn't be pleasant but I think I'd find it preferable to having someone try and drag me out of the door by my collar again.  Just my opinion though.

I only say this because this something I used to do- yes, the flattening shirt thing - when I was a very young teenager and had a lot of built up hatred towards myself. If I was asked at the time why I did it, I probably wouldn't be able to tell you why I did it, but I felt inferior for only passing occasionally and not having everyone I was close to see me as a guy, I guess. I always presented at the least androgynous and never really had a femme part included in my life, so I understand the feeling of passing in certain crowds and situations, but personally feeling that you don't pass well enough. I'm assuming you're around the same age I was then, maybe a bit older. There's no reason you would ever "need" to use the female public restroom, especially since you're in the UK and I'm pretty sure they have plenty of anti-discrimination laws. 
As for the OP, unlike you right now, he is on HRT and claims he is usually passing. It's not like when he speaks he outs himself right now, so he really should be beyond making gestures that point out he is not entirely male bodided by this point in his transition - at least in my opinion. Going to the female restroom, especially when it's at a place he is pretty much all of the time, is going to cause him passing issues that may follow him as long as he lives there, especially if he makes the choice to point out "hey look, I have breasts" if he is read as male while using the "wrong bathroom". That's why I said this was a bad suggestion and overall, kind of demeaning to do to oneself. I could imagine choices like that may cause a lot more grief long-term than may be entirely necessary.

[AdamMLP]

I only say this because this something I used to do- yes, the flattening shirt thing - when I was a very young teenager and had a lot of built up hatred towards myself. If I was asked at the time why I did it, I probably wouldn't be able to tell you why I did it, but I felt inferior for only passing occasionally and not having everyone I was close to see me as a guy, I guess. I always presented at the least androgynous and never really had a femme part included in my life, so I understand the feeling of passing in certain crowds and situations, but personally feeling that you don't pass well enough. I'm assuming you're around the same age I was then, maybe a bit older. There's no reason you would ever "need" to use the female public restroom, especially since you're in the UK and I'm pretty sure they have plenty of anti-discrimination laws. 

Too many people know me around here as female so unless I go atleast 30 miles away I'm nervous that someone I know will see me coming out of the male bathroom and that's going to get seriously awkward.  I just feel it's safer for me to be somewhere a simple flattening of the shirt would stop all questions than where the more they interact with me the more likely they're going to notice that I'm female bodied.  Just the thought of going to a public toilet makes me feel awful so I don't think it would matter which I went into, I'd be terrified all the same.

As for the OP, unlike you right now, he is on HRT and claims he is usually passing. It's not like when he speaks he outs himself right now, so he really should be beyond making gestures that point out he is not entirely male bodided by this point in his transition - at least in my opinion. Going to the female restroom, especially when it's at a place he is pretty much all of the time, is going to cause him passing issues that may follow him as long as he lives there, especially if he makes the choice to point out "hey look, I have breasts" if he is read as male while using the "wrong bathroom". That's why I said this was a bad suggestion and overall, kind of demeaning to do to oneself. I could imagine choices like that may cause a lot more grief long-term than may be entirely necessary.

I was just saying to him that if it was me then when I'm unsure as to whether I pass or not I stick to female ones.  Obviously it's down to him to make his judgement on which is the best in regards to his own situation, I'm not trying to pretend to know what's best for his particular life.  If he doesn't ever see people out of the bathrooms then it's not going to make much difference really, especially as you're never going to see the same person in both of them unless they're in a similar situation, it all depends on what his situations like.

[Jayr]

Use the Men's room. You're a guy.

Dudes shouldn't go in the girls bathroom.
I find it disrespectful for the ladies, and I'd feel like I'm violating their privacy.

I'm a dude, doesn't matter if I'm confident or not.
Pretty sure 99.9% of cisguys would either suck it up(whatever making them worried.) or they would wait till they got home.
And that's exactly what I do.

(This obviously goes for guys that present themselves as guys.)
-

Also I don't bind 90% of the time.

If someone asks, I have gynecomastia.
I highly doubt anyone would ask me to drop my damn pants.

[aleon515]

My gender therapist (he's a transman) made a comment yesterday that I found interesting. He said, if you (meaning me) walked into a men's room and never said a word and never had eye contact with anyone that you could do this (even if you don't pass really). No one would ever say anything. Of course, I dont' have nerve for this. I use the men's room at work which is a single stall in a building that almost nobody uses. I imagine there is a certain confidence that this requires which a lot people who have trouble passing would have difficulty with.

--Jay Jay

[Codyboy1989]

I feel as though I am a man, so I use the men's bathroom wherever I go.  I've never had anyone give a second look..like others have said, men typically do not look at each other in the bathroom.  I think it's an awkward situation anyway, so most avoid eye contact.