Why is it that getting that T letter has such extreme cases?

[Arch]

Stewie...after I read your last post, every ounce of me was screaming for you to dump her.

I know a lot of older gay men who had kids and wanted them, but most of these men made their own genetic children during a hetero marriage. However, I have also met a number of gay men who regretted not being able to have kids or adopt them. And I'm seeing more and more gay men with kids.

When I was growing up, I had few interests in common with my parents, and I had less in common with them the older I got. I don't know of any of my close friends who have any interests in common with their folks...

[Stewie]

Stewie...after I read your last post, every ounce of me was screaming for you to dump her.

I know a lot of older gay men who had kids and wanted them, but most of these men made their own genetic children during a hetero marriage. However, I have also met a number of gay men who regretted not being able to have kids or adopt them. And I'm seeing more and more gay men with kids.

When I was growing up, I had few interests in common with my parents, and I had less in common with them the older I got. I don't know of any of my close friends who have any interests in common with their folks...

Trust me, I am torn right now. Where I live right now though, I don't have many options. I don't live in a very accepting area. I have seen 3 therapists now. One was my school one, the second one was the illegal Mexican T one, and the third one is the one I'm seeing now. I feel like if I try for another one, then I have just wasted SO much time. And money. I feel like I don't want to continue starting over.

Like I said though. I'm going to tell her what I want on Tuesday. And if it doesn't go well...Well I'm going to consider my options. By christmas/january I will have been in therapy for 6 months. I think that is more than enough time...

[Arch]

I hear ya...good luck with your appointment. I'll be looking for your next post.

[aleon515]

IMO, bad therapy or counseling is MUCH worse than no therapy at all. An incompetent or mean person can actually cause damage. It doesn't matter what your motivations are because this involves teamwork. The person is just an idiot.
I wouldn't go frankly.

--Jay Jay

[Felix]

Dude, don't let them mess with your head too much. It sounds like a lot of ignorance and gatekeeping.

Fwiw getting a T letter was in the middle for me. I'd spent a couple years coming out to more and more people and doing research and trying to prepare my life for the changes, and when I decided to officially pursue it I was already established as pretty clearly trans/male. The therapist was inexperienced and balked and made me feel terribly worthless and hopeless, but my physician was totally understanding and on my side. I think it took me four or five months once I made up my mind to seek T.

[A.T]

As I've been vocal about on the boards I'm on the extreme side of never getting my T, 4 years and counting! For me it hasn't been a therapist or gatekeeping problem it's been clueless GP's who don't want to actually get the ball rolling or take any responsibility for my treatment. It took me years just to find a GP who would actually refer me to a gender clinic. I even got referred for bottom surgery at one point by one idiot GP xD I got a letter from them obviously saying I didn't fit the criteria for bottom surgery which I took back to the GP and tried to explain I actually wanted a referral to start hormones and he replied with a very exasperated "you can't just take pills and become a man you know" *facepalmheaddesk*

It would be FABULOUS if they could dedicate just one lesson in med school to a basic outline of transpeople and their treamtnet. A leaflet...something! Most doctors seem to have no idea that we even exist.

Here in the UK I know that GPs have a little booklet this about trans people. I haven't started my therapy yet but I do hope that they actually use it. I think it depends on the individual therapist and what they thing also onto of education sometimes, even though they should put all personal connotations aside I don't think it always happens. Sadly.

[aleon515]

You can see a therapist via Skype or an online therapist.
Laura's Playground has a list (I don't know of a list here but I might be wrong). Anyway, I'd rather do this. As I said a bad therapist can cause damage. I speak from personal experience. I didn't know I was trans* and it wasn't a GT but someone actually told me that I would be better off if I dressed like a girl and was more feminine. This was years ago, but I obviously remember it. I've gone on in my life obviously, but the fact that I can recall it after so many years shows this stuff can pack a punch. Don't go back!

The good thing re: these lists is that people have checked them out so they are a little proven. It doesn't mean that you will connect, but you shouldn't get a quack. I'm just leaving the whole resource thread here. You can see the GTs here.
Here's a list:
http://www.lauras-playground.com/tg_resources_laura.htm

--Jay Jay

[debias]

It's like 50 bucks every visit and I've already had 3 visits.

$50 thats cheap. My phycologist was $150 an hour. He is a trans specialist and I saw him three times just to get the phyciatrist referral.

[henrytwob]

ok. Your therapist is officially perhaps an idiot. At the very least, she has NO experience with diverse populations, i.e. GLBT communities. You probably are wasting your time. Time and money that could be spent on other things, which would include a therapist who is competent in the areas that your require.

That said, I think your lack of ability to be honest with her and assertive is part of the problem. Are all men assertive. Of course not. However, people who deal with generalities and stereotypes believe 1) ALL men are assertive, 2) Men are direct and women are indirect,, etc. Of course this is not true, but people often see the world this way. Therefore, your lack of assertiveness reads to her like lack of masculinity. She may then doubt that you would "fit" in a male space. Personally, maybe your work includes being able to advocate for yourself and being about to control your boundaries - both things many men ( and healthy women) do like breathing.

have you read Debra Tannen's book , " that's not what i said"? She specializes in gender and communication. It is an eye opener and will help you. I learned a lot about communication from that book that I use frequently.
Good luck.

[Arch]

have you read Debra Tannen's book , " that's not what i said"?

Correction: That's Not What I Meant! But I was wondering if you meant You Just Don't Understand? They both talk about gender, of course, but the latter book is specifically about gender. I've read parts of that one--I zoomed through it quickly but did slow down to give more attention to certain parts--and was pretty dismayed. It seemed heavily stereotyped (which I expected and much of which is unavoidable), with claims that didn't seem well supported, and it seemed sexist and...culturist?...and possibly classist. With that said, I'm no expert. I was just determining whether to assign this book to my students from the department book list. My decision was a resounding NO. Maybe it's worth another look.

I'm wondering if female therapists tend to have a harder time with FTMs...in fact, my town has a couple of female therapists who do trans stuff, and they don't seem to acquit themselves well. One does mostly FTMs and has serious issues herself, and the other I don't know--but she has a bad rep with the couple of FTMs I talked to. Maybe the therapists are expecting female communication styles from their clients, hahaha.

[Stewie]

ok. Your therapist is officially perhaps an idiot. At the very least, she has NO experience with diverse populations, i.e. GLBT communities. You probably are wasting your time. Time and money that could be spent on other things, which would include a therapist who is competent in the areas that your require.

That said, I think your lack of ability to be honest with her and assertive is part of the problem. Are all men assertive. Of course not. However, people who deal with generalities and stereotypes believe 1) ALL men are assertive, 2) Men are direct and women are indirect,, etc. Of course this is not true, but people often see the world this way. Therefore, your lack of assertiveness reads to her like lack of masculinity. She may then doubt that you would "fit" in a male space. Personally, maybe your work includes being able to advocate for yourself and being about to control your boundaries - both things many men ( and healthy women) do like breathing.

have you read Debra Tannen's book , " that's not what i said"? She specializes in gender and communication. It is an eye opener and will help you. I learned a lot about communication from that book that I use frequently.
Good luck.

I AM honest with her. Assertiveness is another issue. Why? Because I don't want to come off as being bossy and screw myself over. That is the reason I'm scared to say "I want T at this time". Trust me, part of me DOES think that she wants me to say something along these lines. However, like I said, I'm scared to piss her off, and I'm also scared of being told no. It will just be disheartening. But tomorrow is the day! I shall either be SUPER happy or EXTREMELY dissapointed again lol My odds are great aren't they?

You can see a therapist via Skype or an online therapist.
Laura's Playground has a list (I don't know of a list here but I might be wrong). Anyway, I'd rather do this. As I said a bad therapist can cause damage. I speak from personal experience. I didn't know I was trans* and it wasn't a GT but someone actually told me that I would be better off if I dressed like a girl and was more feminine. This was years ago, but I obviously remember it. I've gone on in my life obviously, but the fact that I can recall it after so many years shows this stuff can pack a punch. Don't go back!

The good thing re: these lists is that people have checked them out so they are a little proven. It doesn't mean that you will connect, but you shouldn't get a quack. I'm just leaving the whole resource thread here. You can see the GTs here.
Here's a list:
http://www.lauras-playground.com/tg_resources_laura.htm

--Jay Jay

Thanks for the link but I've seen it already. And none of these therapists are closer than 2 hours away. So it just can't happen. And I don't know if the one the does phone sessions is covered by my insurance. I will have to wait and see after tuesday if I will be looking for other options.

[aleon515]

What about Skype or online Stewie? Can't hurt to try this.

--Jay Jay

[Adam (birkin)]

I don't think it could hurt to ask her to help you set some more solid dates in terms of your transition.

perhaps you could bring it up and say something along the lines of "So I have been making a financial/timeline plan for my transition, and I am wondering where we can fit testosterone therapy in there. When do you think, realistically, I can look at taking this next step?"

And if she gives you some long ridiculous timeline, just ask her why, and ask her to be specific about how you can achieve those things. Examples. If your BS radar goes off, it can help inform you as to whether or not you want to try starting over with another therapist or another option.

[Arch]

perhaps you could bring it up and say something along the lines of "So I have been making a financial/timeline plan for my transition, and I am wondering where we can fit testosterone therapy in there. When do you think, realistically, I can look at taking this next step?"

Very often, asking a pointed question, rather than demanding and drawing a line in the sand, can really get you where you need to go.

With that said, I have talked to a few trans guys whose therapists expected them to be assertively "manly" about requesting HRT. As in, don't ask--tell. I guess they figure that if you are going to live as a man, you might as well fit the stereotype.

Good luck, Stewie.

[bojangles]

However, like I said, I'm scared to piss her off, and I'm also scared of being told no.

Isn't the current lack of a yes effectively the same as a no?

So, what do you really have to lose?

[Ayden]

What about Skype or online Stewie? Can't hurt to try this.

--Jay Jay

Most of the online therapists have a free consultation of 15 minutes where you can call and ask any questions you need to. My therapist did take insurance, but not mine since I was about 4,000 miles away from her. Even then though it was only $60 a session. When my card was maxed out because of tution payments and such, she just let me pay her later and didn't bat an eye.

So, it can't hurt to at least check.

Isn't the current lack of a yes effectively the same as a no?

So, what do you really have to lose?

^A bad therapist is worse than no therapist at all. And she can't drop you because you contacted another therapist. That's as crazy as saying that your family doctor stopped seeing you because you sought out the opinion of another doctor.

[Make_It_Good]

Jeatyn - The time I spent fighting for T was around the same time as you, so I share your pain!
    To get on T I found much harder, than to get chest surgery (which I had to push for) and lower surgery.
   I went to my DRs at 15. I know this is young, but there are still people who start T as young as this. I asked to be referred to a gender clinic. They referred me to teen mental health. There, I pushed for the same thing. I had to see 5 different professionals there, over 3 years, as each one felt theyd done all they could, so passed me to the next one. (They also felt that they should deal with my depression first, and thisll help them deal with the gender issues, when I was telling them constantly it was the other way around!)  They did refer me to a gender clinic at age 16, but the clinic said they wouldnt see me till I was 18, so I had to continue to see the teen mental health people.
To add to the stress, there was this same teen mental health service in the area I lived, yet they sent me to the one in the next area. Id found out the one in my area(which I should have been seen at), was actually seeing another ftm, and he had been prescribed T already. I tried to get transferred to this one, but my place wouldnt let me go. (And they said they arent the right people to prescribe any hormones).
Just before my 18th Birthday (where the teen place would have to stop seeing me as Id be too old) the new professional I was seeing, noticed a letter over a year old in my files which noone ever showed me, which was from the mental health place in my area, saying they will take me on! Well, it was too late.
     At 18, when I was finally allowed to be seen at the gender clinic, they refused to take the years of previous assessment, into consideration, so my RLE had to start all over again. Also, they then changed their policy to allow people as young as 16 to be treated at the gender clinic, as I was told they didnt want anyone to go through the long wait I had!
  Ahhh, I was so frustrated, but atleast I was on my way. I tried to really push for them to accept all or any of my evidence of having lived as male for years, but to no avail.
At the same time, Id met on different occasions, 3 different ftms. 2 younger than me, and 1 the same age, all had "come out" years after me, and all got T before me. So this showed me how there does seem to be such a vast difference between how quickly or not, people can get on T. But as horrible as it feels at the time, once youre on T and getting on with your life, things become so much easier and you can forget about those stresses.

As, now Im on T, the stresses of this have faded out now, thankfully.