Trans Guy wants to be a leader of breast feeding group...

[Stewie]

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/breastfeeding-dad-trevor-macdonald-lllc.html

I wish I could say that the comments at the bottom of the article weren't as bad as I thought they would be, but they were. I support a trans guy being pregnant and what not. If he wants that. It's his body after all. But then he wants to be a leader of a woman's organization? I feel like he wants it both ways. And this is only giving trans guys a bad name. There aren't that many trans guys in public view and this isn't helping our image. It just makes it seem so wishy washy. I am open to different opinions on this issue. But people are already uneducated about us and this just freaks them out even more.

[Edge]

Well, by the same logic of it being his body, why can't a man breastfeed? He apparently found a way to and it is healthier for the baby (although he would have to be off T). The La Leche League is a breastfeeding organization which makes it only a women's organization by default. There isn't a rule stating that only women can be OB/GYNs or that only women can be in the room while one pushes a baby out their vagina. I don't know about anyone else, but I found that was a lot more embarrassing than nursing.
Why shouldn't people want it "both ways?" What exactly is "one way" and what exactly is the other? It can't be physical bodies because that would discount trans people. Is it what we (people in general) do with our bodies? Shouldn't that be our business? Is it arbitrary social roles? In that case, pretty much everyone has it "both ways" and who would want to be boxed into one?
Sorry for the rant. I've just been thinking about the "both ways" thing a lot. I feel like there's this pressure to prove masculinity by fitting into an arbitrary category and that probably works for guys who want to, but what about the guys who are more androgynous in personality? Androgynous cis guys are accepted as men. It just feels like there's a double standard that enforces the idea that trans men need to prove their men as opposed to just being men. Come to think of it, it also enforces gender stereotypes in general which I know for a fact some cis men don't like either.
that kind of got beyond breastfeeding. Sorry.

[wheat thins are delicious]

He can do what he wants but he's taking it too far.  They've already let him into a woman's group.  and now he wants to be the leader?  I don't support that.  He doesn't even "truly" breastfeed.  He's had top surgery, he uses a special device you wear and it makes it like you have breasts or whatever.  I do not support men being in women's only groups, and even if they are let in for some special exception, they should definitely not try to gain leadership in that group and then whine when they won't be given it.

[Zac]

He can do what he wants but he's taking it too far.  They've already let him into a woman's group.  and now he wants to be the leader?  I don't support that.  He doesn't even "truly" breastfeed.  He's had top surgery, he uses a special device you wear and it makes it like you have breasts or whatever.  I do not support men being in women's only groups, and even if they are let in for some special exception, they should definitely not try to gain leadership in that group and then whine when they won't be given it.

Well said.

[lilacwoman]

it's a bit binary but I agree.

[Jeatyn]

While I support men wanting to breastfeed their children - I did with my daughter after all - I can't support him wanting to be the leader of a breastfeeding group. If you identify as a man you shouldn't be part of women only groups. I can imagine a lot of the members of the group being very uncomfortable with a man leading, regardless of his trans status.

[cynthialee]

Although I think there should be no limits socialy...we are going to fast for the comfort of the greater society.

does that make any sense?

[mikaellucien]

According to La Leche League's own website, in order to become a leader:

Organizational Experience
• Is a member of LLL.
• Supports LLLI purpose and philosophy.
• Has attended at least one series of meetings (where available) and has demonstrated a
commitment to LLL.
• Owns and is familiar with the contents of the most recent edition of The Womanly Art of
Breastfeeding (if available in her language) as a primary resource for LLL Leaders.
• Has a recommendation from an LLL Leader.

Personal Traits
• Has sufficient command of language to complete the application and preparation for accreditation
and to fulfill the responsibilities of LLL leadership.
• Has an accepting and respectful attitude toward others.
• Exhibits warmth and empathy towards others.
• Demonstrates or is willing to develop effective communication skills.

The only time *gender* is actually mentioned is "(if available in her language)".  I fully recognize that largely, only cis women breastfeed, & therefore they have probably never felt a *need* to include a gender requirement.  That shouldn't invalidate a man's desire to do so, though.

The supplemental nursing system in question still requires the *parent* & child to learn how to breastfeed.  Learning to breastfeed, for some, is an extremely emotional & taxing experience.  Having a support person that truly understands how hard it can be is an invaluable asset. 

As for whether or not he is *truly* breastfeeding, I personally am slightly offended.  If this does not *count* as breastfeeding, perhaps someone should inform all the mothers that breastfeed (via assistance) after cancer/double mastectomy, adoption, or impaired milk supply.  He is still feeding his child, at his chest, breast milk (albeit donated).

Having birthed 3 children prior to beginning transition, knowing full well in advance that my transition was going to be a reality, I personally am tired of the *breast is best* police.  I did not breast feed nor had I any desire to do so.  My moobs are not a food source, in my opinion.  Despite my view(s) on the matter, that did not stop every physician/nurse/relative from brow beating me for NOT breast feeding.

If this man wants to feed his child breast milk at his *breast* & thus provide his child with not only the nutritional value & immune system benefits that formula lacks, but *ALSO* build that bond that is so heavily touted by breast feeding advocates, he should go for it.  If he wants to step up & offer back to the organization/community that was/is willing to accept him just as he is, then he should do that also.  If the members of LLL are uncomfortable, I am quite certain that someone out there somewhere would accept his assistance & benefit from his experience(s).

Anyway, I think I've rambled enough.  *steps off soapbox*

[Carbon]

While I support men wanting to breastfeed their children - I did with my daughter after all - I can't support him wanting to be the leader of a breastfeeding group. If you identify as a man you shouldn't be part of women only groups. I can imagine a lot of the members of the group being very uncomfortable with a man leading, regardless of his trans status.

I agree with this personally. I think probably more groups should not be exclusively for women, like a group for women who have experienced or are going through pregnancy already excludes the many women who can't go through pregnancy for whatever reason and some trans men have/are going through pregnancy, so why is there even a gender standard? But in this case we're talking about an international women's organization and it's totally reasonable to me to have that organization led by women.

I think it's good if they help trans men who need support related to breast feeding- in fact it wouldn't hurt if they explicitly made this one of their goals- but sometimes women need our own spaces. Trans men who breast feed are not a significant enough group that they deserve to take over and lead women's groups.

[Natkat]

what ever opinion I might have on this, could we stop using the team "bad names for trans folk"
it leads no ways.
trans people are like cisgender, with diffrent choices, diffrent lifes, desisions, doing good and bad things,
things we agree and disagree on..
we cant jugde ever sigle trans person to take responsible for a whole comunety for his personal actions.

[Stewie]

what ever opinion I might have on this, could we stop using the team "bad names for trans folk"
it leads no ways.
trans people are like cisgender, with diffrent choices, diffrent lifes, desisions, doing good and bad things,
things we agree and disagree on..
we cant jugde ever sigle trans person to take responsible for a whole comunety for his personal actions.

Here's the thing. We DO sort of have a responsibility. Because of the LITTLE education there is out there on trans people. When one of us does something like this, we all get the back lash. The undeducated generalize and assume  we are all "freaks" who can't make up our minds and our only purpose is to corrupt a child's brain. (If you look at the comments, you'll see why I say this.)

[AdamMLP]

trans people are like cisgender, with diffrent choices, diffrent lifes, desisions, doing good and bad things,
things we agree and disagree on..
we cant jugde ever sigle trans person to take responsible for a whole comunety for his personal actions.

I agree, but when people are in the public eye and they're the only trans people that cis people see it doesn't help us to be accepted as equals with cis people.  I've nothing against trans men having kids or breastfeeding, but I don't think they should be going about publicly saying what they're doing and putting themselves in the public eye because they're the only trans people that most others see, and they're who they base their opinions on.  If people only saw trans men acting like cis men then I think it would be a lot easier for people to accept them rather than doing things publicly which are confusing to most people.  It just draws unwanted attention to us and makes us seem different to them.  I'm not saying that we've all got to live our lives asking ourselves "is this a good representation of trans people?", but rather, if we're going to do something which is going to attract regional, national or worldwide attention consider the implications for other trans people.

I don't see a problem with him breastfeeding if he's comfortable with it, or even joining the organisation if the women there are okay with it, but when men enter a women's only space they should be delicate and respectful about it.  It also sit quite right with me because some people there might feel that men are taking the top spots everywhere - men tend to have better paid jobs, more authority, etc - and then some guy comes a long in a women's space and tries to lead it.  He's both drawing unwanted attention to trans men as well as reinforcing the idea that men are all misogynists out to control women and take authority over them.

[Ayden]

what ever opinion I might have on this, could we stop using the team "bad names for trans folk"
it leads no ways.
trans people are like cisgender, with diffrent choices, diffrent lifes, desisions, doing good and bad things,
things we agree and disagree on..
we cant jugde ever sigle trans person to take responsible for a whole comunety for his personal actions.

I agree with Nat here. You can agree or disagree all you want, but its HIS life and he can make his own choices. Just because it "looks bad for us" is not constructive. If someone feels that way and wants to "be the right kind of face" for the community, then go do it and stop trying to make someone else do it. Its no one's job to be a poster child for the community and I see it often enough where people are ready to pounce if one trans person who is in even remotely in the public eye even breathes wrong. Stop forcing ideas of "you can't do that, it makes us look bad!". Even if we are a small minority and people don't know about us, that doesn't give anyone the right to force someone that has some public spotlight to be a poster child. He doesn't need people's approval because he happened to get some publicity.

I have plenty of opinions on this for sure, but I am not fully awake and already threw up a wall of text on another thread. Suffice it say I'll prolly be back.

[Devlyn]

The problem with saying that it's wrong for him to be doing this is that it puts you in the position of realizing that most people think what we're doing is wrong.

[AlexanderReese]

i'm a trans parent of a 9 month old son.
i never chose to breastfeed and i think it's more or less, what you're comfortable with.
i'm not quite sure if this guy would be saying this, if he didn't already have surgery or not because obviously i'm not him.
i just feel as a father, that's not something I personally could do. I felt as if my son and i would bond in ways a father and son will and that breast feeding is more or less obviously what a mother would do.
more props to him for being healthy for his child or whatever his reason may be.
i'm just one of those people that i want to be treated like every other guy.

i say more power to whatever trans fathers choices may be.

[Darth_Taco]

My opinion on this is that he can feed his kid however he wants, the important thing is that he's actually feeding the poor child and that he's getting proper nutrition. If he wants to be public about it, more power to him. Good for him for not being ashamed of his body or the way he lives his life. It can also be seen as a positive for other men (trans or cis) who wish to do the same.

My problem lies in him wanting to be a leader in this breastfeeding group. Think about it from the side of these women. A man wants to help teach these women how to properly breastfeed their children. With all the male politicians out there trying to make decisions on how women should treat their bodies and what procedures they can perform on them, you can see how this situation can be a slap in the face. If there were other men in this group, I can see a justification for this guy being a leader.

If I take away anything from this story, is that my partner will be breastfeeding any infants we get @_@. I don't care if he's a cismale, with that device there's no excuse! D:< His nipples are also way less sensitive than mine, and that will make this hypothetical situation significantly less awkward for everyone involved! @_@ We could also simply feed the kids donated breast milk with a bottle :'P. Actually, that's better XP.

[AndrewL]

Darth_Taco the problem with linking his interest in leading a group to teach people how to breast feed to cismale politicians making decisions about female reproductive health is that it assumes that ones gender is inheritance linked to what they know how to do. He's had a child & breast fed that child. He did his research and is an active part of the group. To say that only women can lead is implying that only women can have that experience and teach others. This is different from someone with no experience stating that you legally can't do something with your body.

[Edge]

That's a good point, Andrew. I know there's a lot of parents out there who were devastated when they couldn't breastfeed for biological reasons. I doubt any of them would care if it was a guy that was helping him so long as he could help them and this guy does have the information and experience.

[Berserk]

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/breastfeeding-dad-trevor-macdonald-lllc.html

I wish I could say that the comments at the bottom of the article weren't as bad as I thought they would be, but they were. I support a trans guy being pregnant and what not. If he wants that. It's his body after all. But then he wants to be a leader of a woman's organization? I feel like he wants it both ways. And this is only giving trans guys a bad name. There aren't that many trans guys in public view and this isn't helping our image. It just makes it seem so wishy washy. I am open to different opinions on this issue. But people are already uneducated about us and this just freaks them out even more.

Live your own life and stop worrying about what other transguys are doing. Every person has the right to do with their body as they wish. People need to stop whining about how "wah wah, so and so is making a bad name for transguys." Stop trying to turn everyone into a cookie cutter just because you think society won't take you seriously. You want to be taken seriously, then present yourself as yourself and stop moaning about what other people are doing. We went through the same thing when Thomas Beatie decided to give birth to his own child (and again and again) with everyone crying that he was "making a bad name for transguys." This shaming of transguys who don't fit the cookie cutter mould is what needs to stop.

Funny how its the guy who has the stones to be himself and stand up for himself despite so much public and personal backlash against him is the one getting pulled through the wringer here, instead of the  society that creates a situation where guys like him are told to sit quietly and play their "proper role" or become the subject of a scandal.

[Natkat]

Here's the thing. We DO sort of have a responsibility. Because of the LITTLE education there is out there on trans people. When one of us does something like this, we all get the back lash. The undeducated generalize and assume  we are all "freaks" who can't make up our minds and our only purpose is to corrupt a child's brain. (If you look at the comments, you'll see why I say this.)

I perfectly know that,
thats also why I usunally gets relifs when some criminals in my area is white and not coloured, because I know if they had been they had been they would get the same kind of crap all the innocent ones.

yes people are stupid and belive we are all the same. and its annoying.

but we as a group should not be lead by there ignorance, we should be the one who lead them agenst that by not putting it on ourself. we can't take responsible for every single transperson just because we are trans, that is way too many people to be responsible for.

when you are in the media for whatever reason you are, its very clear you cant do that either.
in some caises you will be in the media to focus on a trans issue, in other times the media will do it for you when its not your intention. either way you cant satify every transperson, so you should just be yourself.

I personally feel its a sad story that half of the transphobie who is are from ignorant people outside,
and the other half is from transpeople who think other trans gives them a "bad name" we dont sovle anything by saying who is the good and who is the bad guys, theres so much critizims of transpeople for what they do or dont which in fact isnt our busniss.

one day you might experience yourself, that you might give transpeople a bad name, for doing what you do,
and you might see my point. or maybe you already tried so youself.

I guess its more easy for transpeople who been out and in the media, to relate to this than those who dont,