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"Not man enough"

Started by Theo, April 19, 2007, 11:51:57 AM

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Theo

Hi!
I am Theo and I am cross posting. I need as much company of trans people as possible. Basically, I am a transsexual natural, a third gendered, two spirited, psychic herma and adrgogyne. My "multiple sides" require much angle and here I am, trying. My goal is to integrate these all and have a space for people like me: not gender binary FTMs. Even now, I feel like I often have to define myself in relation to FTMs and ops and hormones, which upsets me: I don't care what journey anybody else has, but I want a group, a subcategory of my own. I feel around me natural transsexuals or third genderes are being replaced by bois and gender binaries. I do refer to myself as a "boi" sometimes but it is mostly to get a point across. In the process, I end up sacrifcing much of me and who I am. This is upsetting. I definetely get upset when people pressure me in "jumping off the fence" or telling me I am not a transsexxual because well, I don't want to operate nor take the hormones. This is ridiculous to me but they are serious... Some say that the "spiritual thing" does not exist and say that if you don't want to get a dick or remove your breast or be more "manly" then you are a fake. What bull->-bleeped-<-! I am more of a man than many men I know. I am a good man, caring, loving, protective, strong, independent and loyalt. What's wrong with being thing man? I give love and I receive love.
Anyway, I am here as a boi cause I need to talk and get more personal contact with others...I am a two spirited and Natives and ancient cultures had a place for people like me waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before ops and Ts. So, I am legite and...and ...well anyone?...
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Nero

Welcome, Theo.
I have similar feelings as you, but a bit different. I feel I am male, but I'm not sure about hormones either. I really do like the body I am in, though I do have conflicting feelings about my breasts - sometimes I hate them and want surgery and other times I don't feel that way. It's sort of a love-hate relationship with them. I feel I am male, but that doesn't necessarily translate into wanting a male body for me.
So, anyway, I understand a bit of where you're coming from. Welcome and see you around the forums.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Laurry

Hi Theo!

I, too, am also an androgyne, though my body is male.  It can be a little confusing when most of those around you cannot stand the body they were born with.  But for some of us, neither body would seem 100% right, so what's the point of changing it?

If you haven't already, be sure to check out the Androgyne section of Susan's.  We have some great folks there, and tend to think of gender as a spectrum rather than a binary male or female, so you'll fit in no matter where you are between male and female.  Hope to see you there.

........Laurie
Ya put your right foot in.  You put your right foot out.  You put your right foot in and you shake it all about.  You do the Andro-gyney and you turn yourself around.  That's what it's all about.
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cindianna_jones

Hey, you don't need to paint yourself into a box.  Shoot no one here cares how you define yourself. We'll just accept you the way you are!

Cindi
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Maura

I agree with every statement here.

But I also fell like everyone is always telling us to not try to fit into a title of some sort.  That I don't agree with.  The world needs titles that are easily understood with very definite meanings and for some odd reason the majority of people I talk refuse to recognize any form of categorization but actually fight against it.

I want people to know who I am without having to explain it everytime, in depth, over a twenty minute period of time.  It's just silly not to educate people about us, about us all, inclusive of all the flavors of trans that exist.  The first part of any understanding is the breaking it down into it's many finer points and categorizing so there is an easily understandable language with very definite meanings dedicated to us.
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Laurry

Maura,
I agree that people need titles or labels...it's just the way our minds work.  The problem is that once you accept a label, you are immediately type-cast.  Oh, you're TS, that must mean blah, blah, blah.  Oh, you're a CD, means you like to blah, blah, blah.  Most of us in the trans community have been trapped in a label (you're a man or you're a woman) all our lives and, once escaping, find it difficult to subject ourselves to the restrictions such labels demand.  I believe that is why so many folks here try to avoid being categorized.

While each of us are different, genderly speaking, there are some broad similarities that appear to form some natural groupings.  Some of us feel trapped in the wrong-sexed body and can't wait to surgically alter it.  Some of us are content with our bodies, but enjoy presenting ourselves as the opposite sex.  Some of us are in the middle, where we may or may not wish to alter our bodies, and consider ourselves to be neither male nor female.  Within each of these groups are as many variations (or more) as there are people.

I identify myself by one of the broad categories, (and if pushed by a sub-category), as a courtesy, because I understand our need to have a starting place for understanding one another.  I reserve the right to be the exception to the rule for that category.  I also reserve the right to change categories at any time without notification.


Theo,
Knowing WHO you are is more important than finding a label for WHAT you are.  Look inside yourself...you know who you are.  As far as labels...think of it as shopping.  Try one on...if it fits, think about keeping it...if it doesn't, drop it and look for another one.  Like most clothes, the "off the rack" labels don't always fit as they should and sometimes require tailoring.  Also like clothes, sometimes we outgrow our old label and need to find another one...or sometimes we just get tired and want a change.

...Laurie

Ya put your right foot in.  You put your right foot out.  You put your right foot in and you shake it all about.  You do the Andro-gyney and you turn yourself around.  That's what it's all about.
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Shana A

Welcome Theo

I can certainly relate, although from the other direction. My process of figuring this stuff out has been ongoing for years. I became aware of myself as M2F TS in 1993, did RLT for over a year, and then decided not to continue further as to any sort of medical intervention, but simply to just be myself, in between gender, neither gender, third gender, androgyne, whatever. Here at Susan's, the androgyne section is the most comfortable place to hang out for me, and it seems like each of us here has our own unique way to describe and live as who we are.

zythyra
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Wendy

Hi Theo,

Glad you posted.

I guess it would be easier if I fit in a category but I do not.  Most of the people are rather nice to me anywhere in this forum.   I am here to learn about myself and share experiences.  I am only starting to understand the acronyms and words people share in their posts. 

W
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Lucy

To be compleatly honest Theo most of us here are trying to get rid of lables and dont cvare what people say, it is what is inside of us that counts and you are you, not one else.

The thing  to remember here is you know who and what you are and how you decide to live your life is your problem no one elses. So my thing to you is just do what ever makes you happy.

Take care

Luv Lucy
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Maebh

 :eusa_clap: :eusa_dance:
Clapping and jumping with joy! It is so refreshing and encouraging to hear so many people refusing to be limited to a label or a definition. If people need a label to define you fair enough, if you need to momentary claim one to belong to a wider grouping or explain an aspect of yourself or to get recognition of a specific need of course you can. As Laurie says you don't have to stick with it for ever.
The most important thing is to be you and not to let yourself be bullied or roadrailled by others. As Transgender we have refused or transcended the label put on us at birth by a binary way of thinking: Male versus Female, and later came the rest: Straight versus Gay, TS versus CD or TV, Pre versus Post Op etc... Why should we buy into this need to always think and define verything and every-one in Black versus White? If we are breaking the mould lets us brake it for good. Lets us embrace every shades not only of Gray but all the possibilities on an unlimited pallet or array of  hues and colours. Only by being inclusive instead of exclusive (as the case is on this forum) can we truely start to live our life in Technicolour, dancing barefeet in the colourfull meadow of our life and free at last to glide happily all the way along our own personal Rainbow.

Down from the soap-box

HLLL&R

Maebh
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misty

your soap box Maebh..............

it's love for our femininity............that's why we are all here

misty xxx



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Maebh

Quote from: misty on April 22, 2007, 05:06:07 PM
your soap box Maebh..............

it's love for our femininity............that's why we are all here

misty xxx


Yes that love can be fierce! :icon_2gun:

Ah Misty... You dear child, I allways knew that you were not only a pretty face. :laugh:   

So lets celebrate "To the love of our feminity (or masculinity) and diversity!" Sláinte  :icon_drunk:

HLLL&R

Maebh

PS: If ever the Marie Gallante was ever to sail again, and after consultation with the rest of the crew, I would propose that a midship hamock and a quart of Rhum should be alocated for a certain street urchin on board. ;)
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Emerald


Theo-
I'm most impressed with your candor and understanding of self and gender. Wise you are! I identify as psychologically androgynous, a gender transcendent Androgyne, female bodied by natural design. I agree with your thoughts, the paramount self is not a matter of physical sex or appearances (and it has nothing to do with wardrobe either). I believe the body is a vessel, it's quintessential purpose is to house the spirit on this earthy plane.

The binary gender theory is a flawed false doctrine, and yet gender has become a religion to many. Those with wisdom cultivate virtues - not gender veneration. The finest human characteristics are non-gender specific. You mentioned a few: caring, loving, protective, strong, independent, and loyal. Excellence surpasses and exceeds gender.

-Emerald  :icon_mrgreen:
Androgyne.
I am not Trans-masculine, I am not Trans-feminine.
I am not Bigender, Neutrois or Genderqueer.
I am neither Cisgender nor Transgender.
I am of the 'gender' which existed before the creation of the binary genders.
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Theo

Thank you everyone for your support and you, Emerald, I thank you for existing. Knowing the extent of hatred for real third person or androgyne individuals, I am impressed to see you have survived the pressure from both sides and are able to be. Why do I say "both sides"? Because you've hit upon something that is absolutely true. GENDER IS FALSITY OF A CONSTRUCT. The question that arises, if it is so, why perpetuate the falsity? As we know, not only falsity but also ignorance breeds misery and deformity? And falsity made someone big, one time, long ago. Falsity pays off in more ways than one. Women, I believe, are not all unaware that to comply with a MANDATORY DRESS CODE is both humiliating and undeserving of a human being, yet they comply. Some men do know that female bodied are more than breeding, mating and cooking mechanisms set up in place, yet they comply with the image of believing otherwise. Why? It is false, it is untrue. Because falsity is a tool of evil and ignorance is its prerequisite. Since most people are lazy, and are unable to divorce themselves from the truth value of the argument, they remain below the line of evolution. In fact, most people's existence can be compared to the one of the amoeba: move away from pain, move to food. Escape, or engulf. The so called "complexity" has never reached the foundational level of humanity - regular folks, and without these regualr folks getting educated and enlightened, and accepting the fact that the constructs they've been practicing all their lives are neither true nor beneficial to them, we cannot progress. Unfortunately though most people (women especially) tend to go for peace as opposed to truth, and shift and change like mythological sea god of many shapes (yet he gets captured by the hero, great moral of the story!) in order to "accomodate all perspectives" some perspectives stem from ignorance of the facts (insuffcient understanding of the facts, incomplete knowledge of the facts, incomplete honesty with the facts or/and oneself, escewed perpective), they, since women are not trained in the art of logic and philosophy are are extremely poor in math understanding, and to attribute to ALL OF THEM the SAME VALUE, is a mistake and falsity. Cowardice, my friend, had many coats and nothing underneath. The King of woman's vanity, is after all, naked...Women tend to confuse the facts, get emotional, yank things out of the context and attribute meaning to things that is not there. Being a woman without thouhgt (coming from one who once was) is like living on the bottom of the ocean: "everything is connected, ahh, and feel the energy." To fish (to whom many transmen have compared themselves - imagine a human being take pride in mutating like a fish, going with the flow as opposed to going with own will and thought!), it does not matter what is true of what is false. All fish wants to do is survive. Fish does not think (many women love to jump here and yell: how do you know, have you ever been a fish? well, ladies...) and fish does not like math, nor logic, nor argumentation. Fish does not care what aquirium you put it in, because it is a fish and can't do much about it. When women say that they "go with the flow", "don't really care what to wear" (when I ask them why they shave or wear cloth that was MANDATORILY COMMANDED TO THEM BY GUYS), "don't really care what to eat", "don't understand logic", "don't like math", "don't care what the government is doing" - these women are fish. What makes us human being is reason, and while the male often reserves it for himself through a series of painful and humiliating "lessons" for a woman not to think, it is her duty to resist and not to turn into a fish.
But to finish a thought, no, the evolutionary ones who flow outside the gender and gender proponents CANNOT be reconciled. The reason I am miserbale and my friend is miserable, is the existence of this gender boundary. I CANNOT LIVE MY LIFE OUTSIDE OF IT. I AM IN IT. THE JOBS, THE APT RENTAL, THE SCHOOLS, THE STORES, THE CLOTH, THE MEDIA THE CHURCH-SYNAGOGUE-MOSQUE-WICCAN TEMPLE are all imbued with it. There is no getting away with it. I have to explain myself a thousand times EVERY DAY. I cannot "not care." I care. I am a sensitive artist and I feel everything. And it is not I, women, that should change, because I have not done anything wrong, I am evolving, it is your allowed and permittted gender constructs that have to change. After all, I don't have to pretend the outright hate and violence against people like me does nto exist, BECAUSE IT DOES. And because instead of my beauty being seem I get relogated to the camp of "freaks". We cannot coexist, the gender contructs and us, because every time I am outside or among people, I get comapared to these ->-bleeped-<-ing weak and artficial constructs, asked questions, made comments about. Because what is true and natural gets disputed by what is false and unnatural, and the VALIDITY OF MY VERY BEING is being questioned. THIS IS EQUIVALENT TO ANTI-SEMITISM, RACISM, NATIONALISM, MISOGYNY. When someone calls someone else a "->-bleeped-<-" or a "kike" you don't tell them to "take it easy and forget all about it." So, why am I often adviced to do the same? And why it is understood the Ku Klux Klan members and Jews and Black people are ideologically opposed, no, in fact the very existence of blacks and jews is what make the other camp - Ku Klux Klan, go berserk, their existences [ are incompatible. This is understood, but the fact that horrible and suffocating gender constructs DIRECTLY OPPOSE MY EVOLUTION WITH THEIR THOUSAND AND ONE WAYS, is not clear. So long as that make up ->-bleeped-<-, and skirt ->-bleeped-<- and shave your legs ->-bleeped-<- and man is THE man ->-bleeped-<- and so much more exists, I CANNOT. PEOPLE LIKE ME CANNOT. NO LIFE THAT IS NORMAL AND GOOD CANNOT BE LED.
This is the truth, and if women are unable to handle an argument, they have no business using word and communicating with Homo Sapiens but should be swimming, as fish, on thbe bottom of the ocean. I am not supposed to devolve because they all got their tails firmly between their legs.
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Ms Bev

Quote from: Theo on April 24, 2007, 07:16:43 PM
The King of woman's vanity, is after all, naked...Women tend to confuse the facts, get emotional, yank things out of the context and attribute meaning to things that is not there. Being a woman without thouhgt .......................... women say that they "go with the flow", "don't really care what to wear" (when I ask them why they shave or wear cloth that was MANDATORILY COMMANDED TO THEM BY GUYS), "don't really care what to eat", "don't understand logic", "don't like math", "don't care what the government is doing" - these women are fish. ..................
This is the truth, and if women are unable to handle an argument, they have no business using word and communicating with Homo Sapiens but should be swimming, as fish, on thbe bottom of the ocean. I am not supposed to devolve because they all got their tails firmly between their legs.






Care to devolve, anyone?
1.) If you're skating on thin ice, you might as well dance. 
Bev
2.) The more I talk to my married friends, the more I
     appreciate  having a wife.
Marcy
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Maebh

Quote from: Theo on April 24, 2007, 07:16:43 PM

This is the truth, and if women are unable to handle an argument, they have no business using word and communicating with Homo Sapiens but should be swimming, as fish, on thbe bottom of the ocean. I am not supposed to devolve because they all got their tails firmly between their legs.


I am so sorry you hurt so much. Sorry too that the only way you can express that hurt is through anger. Boys don't cry is an other of the lies and construct you talk about. I was rejected and abused by my mother, raped and prostituted by my grandmother, luckily other women like the nuns who took me and my brother in, like the teacher in primary school who took me under her wing I met other women who contradicted the behaviour of the the ones who hurt me so deeply. So I learned that not all women are one way and consequently not all men are an other.
From our experiece as transgendered we are all well aware that there is a continuum on the gender defined type of thinking and  behaving. More males might be found towards one end and more females towards the others but we know quite a few might be on the other side too. So please do not generalise and lump all women and all things deemed feminine under one negative label. In the same vein as the old discredited assertion that all men are rapist it is not the truth. And importantly too it is totally disrespectful to women, womanhood and the feminine. How can you expect and demand respect for your identity if you deny it to other? Charity starts at home. You cannot change others, only yourself. Who knows by becoming more accepting you might encourage others to be the same in return.

With Hope, Light, Love and Respect

Maebh



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