More name change questions?

[aleon515]

Hi,

It seems like we are getting a lot of name change questions. I REALLY hate my given name. I always have to say __________ is my given name but I am goign by ______. I can't even change the name I get for gmail.

Anyway, I have thought about the name change thing. BUt though I identify as ftm, I am not sure I am going thru medical transition (yet). I am working on this in gender therapy but I am not rushing towards any decision.

I understand to change your name, you don't need to change a gender marker but here in NM the gender marker goes on the driver's license. So if I take a male type name it is going to be confusing. I would guess I would have to change a lot of names elsewhere.

I don't know if I am making sense here. But if I am does anyone has a ideas?

--Jay Jay

[sonopoly]

Why can't you get a new gmail account with your chosen name?

[aleon515]

Yeah it's an idea, but it's not the only issue with my name I have.
(The other is that I really like my email address. I almost identify with it more than my given name. I know that might sound strange.)


--Jay Jay

[wheat thins are delicious]

You can definitely change your name on your gmail.  I've done it.

[four_est]

I was actually wondering about male names and female gender markers as well. I have sort of fallen into a male name, while I go by a fairly gender neutral nickname I can imagine all sorts of really awkward situations if I had to show someone my license. Are they actually important?

I've had bad experiences with therapists all my life and my last one was no better. My other doctors don't really seem interested in helping me (they could care less about who and/or what I am, but aren't interested in going out of their way to help me) so it will probably be a long time before I could get a note (especially if they require something before writing one) to let me change my IDs. But I might be able to change my name by the end of the year.

So... does anyone have their name changed but are still "female" on their license? And has it actually made a difference? I think that's what you were also trying to get at too Jay Jay? That name changes can pretty much happen whenever, as soon as you're ready. But medically transitioning and thus, changing gender markers can take a while (or never happen). Or I could be way off... but I'm still curious! 

[aleon515]

I've had bad experiences with therapists all my life and my last one was no better. My other doctors don't really seem interested in helping me (they could care less about who and/or what I am, but aren't interested in going out of their way to help me) so it will probably be a long time before I could get a note (especially if they require something before writing one) to let me change my IDs. But I might be able to change my name by the end of the year.

So... does anyone have their name changed but are still "female" on their license? And has it actually made a difference? I think that's what you were also trying to get at too Jay Jay? That name changes can pretty much happen whenever, as soon as you're ready. But medically transitioning and thus, changing gender markers can take a while (or never happen). Or I could be way off... but I'm still curious! 

You are awesome. You said this so much better than I did. This is a rerun for a lot of people. Sorry sorry. I don't pass in the slightest. I am dressing as a male and use a gender neutral nickname. The gmail thing is not all I am thinking about. (I asked to change but I have no name documentation-- otoh, I haven't told them I am trans.) I am feeling very uncomfortable with my given name and all the times I seem to have to use it. My nickname doesn't translate to anything I could use in real life. I am not ready to medically transition. First I thought I was totally androgyne. Now I feel that I am really more ftm. It has been maybe 5 months since I knew I was trans. (I shoulda had some clues but well I didn't know what to make of them I think.) So I don't know if I will ever feel like I would medically transition or not.  I am guessing that changing your name before you change your gender might cause you to have to go in and change your gender marker again (Here in NM, the court papers are not gendered-- only the driver's license-- I think.). Having a really gendered name could be confusing for others anyway.

BTW, I have got very possibly the coolest therapist who is a transman. I wish I could bottle him and sell him to some of the guys here who such incompetent idiots as therapists.

--Jay Jay

[Magnus]

Honestly, the issue with having the 'F' on the ID can be as simple as punching it off or scraping it off, whatever to get rid of it. For how seldom it's actually used for its intended and rightful purposes (or I'll amend, for MOST people capable of keeping their nose clean) it really doesn't need to be on there seeing as its NOBODY'S BUSINESS! Without it: problem solved. I'm going to do the same to mine shortly. Never thought about it before, so thanks for sparking that idea. Just going to drive a nail right through it until its gone. Nobody knows until or unless I have to use it. One checker had the gall to say to me once "I'd never have guessed", as though it required comment... ugh.

But yes, there are plenty of us out there who are forced to retain the wrong gender marker on their documents and ID. The reason being is that most often, the system will flat-out REFUSE to issue the proper one UNTIL you have undergone SRS. In my humble opinion, that is draconian. The HRT (particularly in our -FTM- case) should be enough of "irreversible" transition for them without having to go under the knife just to get the proper gender marker but I digress.

If that weren't bad enough, here's something positively barbaric. You have to run your given name alongside your intended and full change of name in a newspaper for four consecutive weeks. And it has to be a LOCAL newspaper. I now understand why so many of us chose to pick up and LEAVE their place of residence after that's done (especially those of us who wish to remain 'stealth' to the world at-large). Anyone can google your given name and find out exactly where you live at that time. They'll also know exactly what its about, if you're not fortunate enough to already have an androgynous name. Something to think carefully about. Something that should definitely NOT be a prerequisite in any event and for obvious reason.

But anyway, good luck.

[Arch]

It's quite common for women to have names that used to be exclusively male--or that are still overwhelmingly male--so I don't think it's often a problem to have a male or male-ish name and a female gender marker.

With that said, I changed my name over a decade before I transitioned. My first name is exclusively male--I've never even met a woman with a female version of it, although someone once told me about a German gal who had the female variant. I ran into problems here and there, but actually not too many, considering that I had that name for some thirteen years before I began passing as male.

What names did you have in mind? Lots of male names can be sort of androgynous...

P.S. BTW, I believe it is illegal to deface a government-issued ID card.

[wheat thins are delicious]

P.S. BTW, I believe it is illegal to deface a government-issued ID card.

I think it's only illegal if you are doing it to try to deceive people, like fake IDs or something.

[Arch]

I think it's only illegal if you are doing it to try to deceive people, like fake IDs or something.

Well, a counterfeit ID is not necessarily a defaced ID. But I think the state DMVs would all feel that if a person scraped off or punched out the "F" on a license for the purpose of obscuring the person's legal sex, that would count as deceit. And I know that in CA, the DMV requires license holders to surrender mutilated licenses. It's basically illegal to use a defaced license in my state.

[aleon515]

@Arch--I agree re: defacing a license. Some US states have laws against this. You could also run into trouble thru airport security. I can't imagine that the TSA wouldn't find this suspicious. On the plus side, I have only shown my license about 2 times since I have "socially transitioned" or what ever the heck you would call this.

@everybody--Thanks to everybody's comments. I am thinking of Jay but I want a middle name so not sure what goes with that. My parents did not give me one so I kind of want one. I don't think there would be many female Jays, but it could be androgynous perhaps. Being such a short name, it would tend to seem like the middle name. I am currently going by a nickname that is very androgynous. However, I am currently going by (a different) nickname that is very androgynous.

To me the given name is a hassle where there may be a situation where they'd see my credit card or I am dealing with them in a semi-professional sort of relationship. No I am not "out" at work. I mean work around the house and so on. I've noticed they get my "real" name and immediately start ma'aming me. I have to come out very strong to get ahead of that. I feel like I am always walking on my toes to try and head stuff off.

@Andy--The server is down, but I think that if google isn't cooperative I could get another email address on the same acct. and put it as another person. But they are supposed to be liberal, perhaps if I emailed them that I was trans. (I know you can change your name, but they wanted all this proof. Yikes. But nothing against being my own little brother. )

@Magnus--BTW, here you also have to "advertise" or list your name. However they have an obscure little paper which is mostly for the purpose of doing this, so it is not in a big major paper or anything. I think you do two of these little announcements, pay some $$ and then declare to a judge you are not out to defraud anybody. I suppose someone could find your name here. I wouldn't worry about it. You should find out about this as there may be such a paper where you live too.

@Magnus--SRS is not needed for anything I think here but change of birth certificate--vaguely worded at best. I don't think I would change this. Social Sec. is *very* vague. I understand a few states require SRS for a driver's license change. That's profoundly half-baked.

--Jay Jay

[Magnus]

Well, a counterfeit ID is not necessarily a defaced ID. But I think the state DMVs would all feel that if a person scraped off or punched out the "F" on a license for the purpose of obscuring the person's legal sex, that would count as deceit. And I know that in CA, the DMV requires license holders to surrender mutilated licenses. It's basically illegal to use a defaced license in my state.

You seem to have the notion that I care about what the system mandates. I don't. But thank you for the warning, to both myself and others.

As far as I am concerned, I paid for it. It is my property to do with as I please. And so long as I am not a fool and don't get myself pulled over or otherwise, it will be a non-issue. And even if I do, what are they going to do? Suspend it? Fine me? Big deal. If they don't like it, then perhaps its time they re-evaluate the current hoops they'd like us to jump through. Make it a little less demeaning and risky (e.g. drop the SRS prerequisite so steps like this aren't felt to be necessary).

Bottom line for me is that clerks and cashiers have no business to this information and as such, they won't. Especially not after I manage to change my name. I will not have that 'F' mar it and reveal me. The only people who have the right to this information are my physician, my family and perhaps those who'd have interest in buggering me (though that's not likely, I'm Asexual. Just making a point).

[Arch]

You seem to have the notion that I care about what the system mandates. I don't. But thank you for the warning, to both myself and others.

No, actually, it seemed quite clear to me that you don't give a hang what the government thinks. But as a moderator, I have a responsibility to respond when someone advocates an act that is illegal or likely to be illegal, or when a member advises other members to break the law. Defacing a license in the way you describe is undoubtedly illegal in most, if not all, states (and probably in countries outside the U.S. as well). So you might do well to review the Terms of Service, particularly #5, just to be on the safe side.

Frankly, I don't think you'll get much disagreement from other people here that sex markers on IDs are largely unnecessary. But state and federal government agencies clearly disagree, at least for now.

[Susan]

The Drivers license is a representation of a permission granted to you by the state, the state can revoke it, they can take it from you, it is their property not yours.

[Cindy]

I realise that laws change a lot from place to place. In Australia your driving licence is one of very few documents with photo ID on it. As such it is used to validate other documents including bank accounts etc. Without it, or with an invalidated one you can become 'lost' in the system, and the system doesn't care.

There are valid ways to change your name and gender markers. If they are not available to you, campaign by writing to your legal political reps to get them changed. That way you help you and you help others.

There are no legal gender markers in official documents in Australia. Last week I changed all mine to female. There were no issues and no problems and in each and every case a person met a TG woman and understood her views, politely put, about her problems in bring in a system. I was treated with empathy and respect.


That is how you change things in society.

IMO

Cindy

[Devlyn]

Here in Massachusetts your license can be suspended for six months if you deface it, see chapter two, "Keeping your license" http://www.mass.gov/rmv/dmanual/index.htm

[Magnus]

Fair enough. Though to be honest, I wasn't aware that was considered illegal and nor would I have advised it if I had. However, as we are mostly all adults here I'm sure we're all capable of weighing our own decisions for ourselves and shouldering the responsibilities and consequences of them quite well. But point taken. Apologies.

Susan, I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree. As far as I am concerned, it's their property when they pay me my $25 back. Then they can do whatever they'd like to it. Meantime, its mine. Possession is nine tenths of the law. And if they'd follow the wording on the backs of these licenses, then they'd recognize their folly in forcing us to use them for purposes other than strictly as proof of ability to operate motor vehicles and nothing more, as stated, and I (and others I imagine) wouldn't be having a problem with this whatsoever. If only. But this is neither here nor there. Its my business if I decide to 'deface' my ID and the potential consequences are my own. So it bears no further discussion as far as I myself am concerned in it past this point.

Though forgive me, I find myself wondering how very many people would be eligible for charges of 'fraud' or otherwise for lying outright about weight and height on their licenses. I'm sure it would tally 70% of the populace, at least. Hardly a lesser infraction than concealing an offending letter.

But again, point taken. I withdraw. It was not my intent to 'rock the boat'. I was only attempting to be helpful, nothing more and nothing less than that.

[Devlyn]

With freedom comes responsibility, and actions have consequences. Hugs, Devlyn

[tgchar21]

@Magnus: The reason that you have to publish the name change is supposedly to catch anyone trying to commit fraud. IMO that tactic is somewhat outmoded; I think a more direct and better way for the courts to handle it is whenever you file for a name change they'll check your credit and criminal reports, and any bureau that you have a conviction on record or anyone who you owe debt in excess of a certain amount will automatically get notified by the court of your name change intent. If that idea would be adopted by the courts around the country that would help make it very difficult for anyone to change their name for fraudulent reasons (and any records under your old name would automatically roll over into your new name, also eliminating the need to explain your name change when someone checks those records in the future) while making it easier (besides the additional step of obtaining the reports) and less outing for those changing their name for legitimate reasons (such as transgender people).

[wheat thins are delicious]

@Andy--The server is down, but I think that if google isn't cooperative I could get another email address on the same acct. and put it as another person. But they are supposed to be liberal, perhaps if I emailed them that I was trans. (I know you can change your name, but they wanted all this proof. Yikes. But nothing against being my own little brother. )

I don't remember having to provide proof.