Test Levels and Prescription

[Arch]

Folks, I deleted a link because it contained extensive dosage information. I hated to do it, but we're not supposed to discuss dosages. So if you're wondering what happened, now you know.

ETA: The link has been restored, as per Susan's instructions.

Stephe, you're looking very cute these days.

[Stephe]

Stephe, you're looking very cute these days.

Thanks *blush*

[kathy bottoms]

Picked up the script today for the Spiro and the estadiol patches.  First test will be seeing how they stick to my skin.  Waiting until tonight after house work and a shower. 

Spiro smells a little better than what I was using, but it's still twice the size of an asparin.

K

[Stephe]

I get the "small size" and just take how ever many I need to get to my dose. At least where I buy them, it's the same price as getting a horse pill + can adjust dosages easily without new pills.

[rachl]

Picked up the script today for the Spiro and the estadiol patches.  First test will be seeing how they stick to my skin.  Waiting until tonight after house work and a shower. 

Spiro smells a little better than what I was using, but it's still twice the size of an asparin.

K

I'm on matrix-style patches (smaller and more comfortable than the reservoir patches). They don't stick so well, especially if you're active. I use strong medical tape to keep them on.

[kathy bottoms]

I get the "small size" and just take how ever many I need to get to my dose. At least where I buy them, it's the same price as getting a horse pill + can adjust dosages easily without new pills.

The smaller pills were prescribed but they ran out, so the pharmacy substituted the lage pill since it still met the needs of the prescription.  And there's fewer bottles to rattle around.

I'm on matrix-style patches (smaller and more comfortable than the reservoir patches). They don't stick so well, especially if you're active. I use strong medical tape to keep them on.

Actually can't wait to slap one on over my appendix to see how it sticks just below my waist.  Next week I'll try it on my back.  I'd just about bet the heavy home repairs will make them loose.

[PHXGiRL]

Well my lab results just came back I've been on the DIY method the last three months while waiting to get into my Endo.

Picking up my prescription tonight. Nurse says my E is wayyyyy to high it's 1100 and my test is at 47

Does this sound right? She says my E is three times as high as a pregnant woman and I should cut out the microgest

[Alainaluvsu]

Well my lab results just came back I've been on the DIY method the last three months while waiting to get into my Endo.

Picking up my prescription tonight. Nurse says my E is wayyyyy to high it's 1100 and my test is at 47

Does this sound right? She says my E is three times as high as a pregnant woman and I should cut out the microgest

I've learned that if you're getting morning sickness, it's time to go down on E. If you're getting headaches and hot flashes... it's time to go up.

[A]

Uhm, if that's in pmol/mL, I don't think it's so terrible. A bit high but still pretty all right.

If it's in American measures, then yeah, that's pretty tremendously high.

[PHXGiRL]

I've learned that if you're getting morning sickness, it's time to go down on E. If you're getting headaches and hot flashes... it's time to go up.

What's crazy is I feel the same. There is moments I have felt dizzy but I though that was do to not eating enough. I imagine the reason why I'm lactating is that it's so high.

[PHXGiRL]

Uhm, if that's in pmol/mL, I don't think it's so terrible. A bit high but still pretty all right.

If it's in American measures, then yeah, that's pretty tremendously high.

It is American levels. I took my dose in the AM before getting my bloodwork I asked her if that was maybe the reason it was so high and she said nope. Took my blood test at 7:30am while fasting

[Alainaluvsu]

What's crazy is I feel the same. There is moments I have felt dizzy but I though that was do to not eating enough. I imagine the reason why I'm lactating is that it's so high.

When I was tested at 722 I was getting mild dizziness too. I've been pretty much dosing as I want even if my doctor has me prescribed on another dosage. Since you are self medicating just pay attention to how you feel. You can also pay attention to how animals are acting around you. My cat hates men... so I know my T levels are high when she is avoiding me. However... when my E levels are high she kneads on me when I'm laying in bed (I think she senses a mother).

[A]

Alaina: That reassures me as to why animals aren't so fond of me. xD Please, decent dose, quick!

Serena Lynn: Well, yeah, that's pretty crazy high, indeed. 1100 pg/mL = 4038 pmol/mL. Even "you'll just get sick from this" high.

Lookie, the normal values on my blood test sheet.

17β-estradiol [Men: 36 - 220] [Women (follicular): 110 - 1470] [Women (luteal): 180 - 550] [Women (menopause): 18 - 110]

The endos of people I've spoken with seem to be aiming around 600 ~ 1300, depending, I guess, on the time on HRT, age and endos' preferences. It's probably unwise to go above 1470, not to mention it probably doesn't give you any additional effect. So at triple that... Yeah, it's more than unwise.

No medical logic behind this, but if I'm a body and 3 times the maximum hormones I'm ever supposed to see come my way, I won't say "TURBO DEVELOPMENT!" (there's a limited number of E2 receptors anyway), but rather go "poisoning!" and try to evacuate as much of the product in excess as I can.

That's why we tend to discourage self-medicating... But then, if you do self-medicate, make sure you know what you're doing and look levels and doses up well before doing anything. If people normally need doctors to do that properly, don't think you can without at least researching...

[PHXGiRL]

Alaina: That reassures me as to why animals aren't so fond of me. xD Please, decent dose, quick!

Serena Lynn: Well, yeah, that's pretty crazy high, indeed. 1100 pg/mL = 4038 pmol/mL. Even "you'll just get sick from this" high.

Lookie, the normal values on my blood test sheet.The endos of people I've spoken with seem to be aiming around 600 ~ 1300, depending, I guess, on the time on HRT, age and endos' preferences. It's probably unwise to go above 1470, not to mention it probably doesn't give you any additional effect. So at triple that... Yeah, it's more than unwise.

No medical logic behind this, but if I'm a body and 3 times the maximum hormones I'm ever supposed to see come my way, I won't say "TURBO DEVELOPMENT!" (there's a limited number of E2 receptors anyway), but rather go "poisoning!" and try to evacuate as much of the product in excess as I can.

That's why we tend to discourage self-medicating... But then, if you do self-medicate, make sure you know what you're doing and look levels and doses up well before doing anything. If people normally need doctors to do that properly, don't think you can without at least researching...

Thanks A for the info I wouldn't of self medicated but had to I couldn't wait any longer and I had to wait 3 1/2 months to get into my Endo. I'm good now and under docs care so she wants me to cut the dose I'm gonna cut the dose back some as prescribed. My prescription will be ready tomorrow. )))

[DanicaCarin]

Hi All,

I've been wanting to ask this question, but didn't want to start a whole new thread. I don't want to hijack somebody else thread, but this seems to be very related.

When I started HRT, I asked my therapist(He would get the results from the Endo and advise) why he was only concerned with my T levels and not my E levels as well. Obviously, he monitored other stuff, but as far as feminization(E & T levels) he was only concerned about my total testosterone level. His answer was that at my dose of E, my body is flooded with estradiol, and that my body is converting much of that estradiol to entrace which doesn't have any feminizing properties. With out going into dosages, can anyone tell me if this makes any sense?

Thanx
Dani

[A]

Estrace is a brand of estradiol as a medication... So if that's the very term your therapist used, no.

However, it does make sense to mainly worry about T at first. Testosterone is a "dominant" hormone, which means that when  you have both testosterone and estradiol, estradiol has little effect, even if you take more. Then once T is tamed, the way is free, so to say, for estradiol to do its work.

^I'm not 100 % sure of what I'm saying; it's blurry, but I -think- that's how it was.

[DanicaCarin]

Estrace is a brand of estradiol as a medication... So if that's the very term your therapist used, no.

However, it does make sense to mainly worry about T at first. Testosterone is a "dominant" hormone, which means that when  you have both testosterone and estradiol, estradiol has little effect, even if you take more. Then once T is tamed, the way is free, so to say, for estradiol to do its work.

^I'm not 100 % sure of what I'm saying; it's blurry, but I -think- that's how it was.
[/quote/]

No... He stated that Entrace was a bi product of too much Estradiol and that Entrace has little or no feminizing ability. Basically, too much Estradiol leads to Entrace, which has no feminizing traits.

I wondered after reading about how many of you were monitoring your estrogen levels. From low levels to what were considered high levels, no body was talking about this point where estrogen converts to entrace.

I have lots of questions about my former therapist.  Until I can get a new therapist and Endo.. I'm in the dark!

[Stephe]

Hi All,

I've been wanting to ask this question, but didn't want to start a whole new thread. I don't want to hijack somebody else thread, but this seems to be very related.

When I started HRT, I asked my therapist(He would get the results from the Endo and advise) why he was only concerned with my T levels and not my E levels as well.
Thanx
Dani

My doc said the e level vary so much over the course of a day, when meds are taken etc that the E numbers aren't a good judge. That she could tell how effective the meds were by watching my T levels. That said my T levels never changed a lot but I now have B cup breasts and she stopped testing for T on me. I probably am NOT normal in my reaction or blood level response to the meds but I guess I am an example of what can happen.

If -you- are paying out of pocket, I would ask to only test things that have to be tested to make sure you are healthy. Take a reasonable dose and watch for results/how you feel. It's never a good idea to blast large doses of anything into your body wanting rapid change. The best results will happen over a few years, not trying to force the changes to happen in 6 months with extra high dosages. I see people say all the time "You want -blank- level of this and -blank- level of that." The human body isn't that simple and there is no cookie cutter path.

[kathy bottoms]

Your body will naturallyt convert estradiol to several estrogen products.  I seem to remember there are three main estrogens Estradiol, Estrone, and Estriol.  Can't remember exactly what my Endo said about them.  But he did say that when a person takes very high doses of estrogen the body converts it and filters out some of the breakdown byproducts.  These excess filtered strogen products are sometimes stored in body fat, or eliminated in urine.

[A]

Okay, I'm not an expert, but I could find this. (By the way, sorry, I had misread Entrace for Estrace.)

-The product you mentioned, entrace. It does not exist, from the looks of it. See for yourself: Wikipedia and Google are silent on the very existence of such a thing.

-You might mean estrone, which is an oestrogen with much weaker properties than estradiol, and the primary oestrogen in post-menopausal. I don't have the details, but I think when there's an excess of estradiol, it can be converted to estrone, and vice versa (though the former happens much more often). Once it's estrone, it can in turn be converted into estrone sulfate, which stays in the body for a long time. Then it can act as a sort of storage: estrone sulfate is converted to estradiol if it's lacking.

And of course, like with pretty much every product in excess in the blood, excess estradiol can most probably be excreted through urine.

So uhm... I'm not sure why he literally doesn't care about estradiol levels. It is true that testosterone can block the effects of estradiol (hence why most FTMs just take testosterone, period), but still... Your T levels are mainly dependent upon your T blocker, whilst your E levels rely on the actual E you take. It doesn't make much sense to me to just ignore it.

Going by that logic, you'd give someone just T blockers and expect breasts to grow. :x

I'm not sure I understand them, really. Of course, if T is still not under control, the E level is not all that important, but once T is low, I'm pretty sure the E level is a very important information...

You should really ask your endo directly. Therapists, no matter how experienced, aren't hormone experts, after all.