The "Does my voice pass?" thread

[Jane's Sweet Refrain]

Jane, your voice sounds great!

The resonance is so good that pitch doesn't really sound like much of an issue to me. If you included a few more up/down slides or dynamics during the middle of sentences it would really sell it. You are already well out of the male range

I like your voice a lot!

Thanks so much Jenny. Your analysis of the missing slides seems spot on. Come to think of it, that's an element of speaking I've left little explored. I've been practicing for a little while today.

I actually download Pratt and have started doing analysis on. Thanks for the detailed instructions on that one. My first attempt put me at slightly under 200. Admittedly I was paying more attention to pitch than I was when I did the Sound Cloud recordings, so I was higher. The next two were slightly above 220. It's a pitch that I'm not used to speaking, although I didn't have to strain my voice to reach that average. What a useful tool! It helps me make much more informed decisions about my voice than hearing alone. I can't wait to see how my cisgender girlfriends measure on the scale.

[Jane's Sweet Refrain]

I also wanted to avoid getting technical about voice, because I don't think I often explain it well, but here goes:
The largest hurdle for me with female projection is avoiding a hammy or nasally voice. I find projection to be easier by channeling (or aiming) my voice through the front of my mouth (somewhere between the front teeth and the bottom of the nose). I also find it helpful to balance my voice "above" my vocal cords, and particularly to try and avoid resonating my voice in the area in front of and beneath them. My projection, or "loud voice," ultimately resides in the back of my throat and travels through the middle and top of my mouth.

I hope that made sense and was helpful. I really do have a difficult time expressing voice specifics to others. As for your swimsuit, I wish you the very best of luck and find you very brave -- I plan on remaining terrified of that prospect for several years to come.

Your ability to analyze voice is really advanced, Sybil. When I just projected, I found that what you said totally made sense. I can really feel it in the middle and top mouth. It's as if we're forming a small megaphone or amplifier with our mouth that works with the other amplification of balanced voice and good breathing.

If I may continue the tech-talk, I was thinking that reason that initial sounds are so important is that they are what we use for what linguists call phatic speech, or that speech that is merely meant to make a connection. When we say, "Hi, How are you?", we really aren't sincerely asking for a report, but just establishing a communication link. The problem is that those are the moments that strangers almost in an instant gender us. It's no wonder we have performance anxiety; so much appears to rest on that moment when we first open our mouths. It's not that we cannot correct the first impression, but it's easier when we don't have to.

Oh, I don't know if brave is the word I'd choose. The guilt of never have taken my kids to the ocean is getting to me. Guilt can drive us to great feats of strength. 

[Jess42]

Thanks Jennygirl for providing those sound clips. It suprised me cause I have to lower my natural voice to hit the 175. I guess now I know why people think I'm female on the phone.

[Jennygirl]

Thanks so much Jenny. Your analysis of the missing slides seems spot on. Come to think of it, that's an element of speaking I've left little explored. I've been practicing for a little while today.

I actually download Pratt and have started doing analysis on. Thanks for the detailed instructions on that one. My first attempt put me at slightly under 200. Admittedly I was paying more attention to pitch than I was when I did the Sound Cloud recordings, so I was higher. The next two were slightly above 220. It's a pitch that I'm not used to speaking, although I didn't have to strain my voice to reach that average. What a useful tool! It helps me make much more informed decisions about my voice than hearing alone. I can't wait to see how my cisgender girlfriends measure on the scale.

You're totally welcome! It's a really well known tool I guess. My voice therapist was happy to know I was using it because you can actually analyze resonance, too, by measuring spectral power. As far as I understand it, spectral power is the loudest resonant overtone frequency that we actually hear the most in a voice. She said that for males it was in the range of 2,000 - 2,500hz, and or females it is usually in the range of 3,000 - 3,500hz. You can analyze spectral power in Praat by selecting the point that you wish to analyze and hitting F7 or go to "Spectrum -> Get spectral power at cursor cross". It can be handy if you want to check your resonance, too

Thanks Jennygirl for providing those sound clips. It suprised me cause I have to lower my natural voice to hit the 175. I guess now I know why people think I'm female on the phone.

Sounds like you got pretty lucky to me, Jess

[Jamie D]

This is the voice that my friends like the best (or at least as close as I can get while focusing on what I'm doing for the recording).  Thoughts?

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0HkHyo0abHo

Here is a second take, this time without a script:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0IjoEHOjseY

Close.  Something just seemed "off" to me.  Maybe it was the cadence.

Hi,

I've been full-time now for a couple of months and thought I would record a sample of the voice that I'm using every day. I made sure to do this recording cold and without preparation so that it would more closely resemble the voice I have to use in the varying and impromptu situations of real life. I would appreciate all feedback. Thanks!

http://soundcloud.com/jgeneris/audio-recording-on-sunday

I'd say that was pretty good.

[Jess42]

Sounds like you got pretty lucky to me, Jess

I definately did but depends cause it kinda' sux if I'm trying to be a guy. I have to lower it quite a bit and then I would still sound more like a prepubuscent teen but in my thirties, I finally got it and can sound either or now.

[Sybil]

Your ability to analyze voice is really advanced, Sybil. When I just projected, I found that what you said totally made sense. I can really feel it in the middle and top mouth. It's as if we're forming a small megaphone or amplifier with our mouth that works with the other amplification of balanced voice and good breathing.

If I may continue the tech-talk, I was thinking that reason that initial sounds are so important is that they are what we use for what linguists call phatic speech, or that speech that is merely meant to make a connection. When we say, "Hi, How are you?", we really aren't sincerely asking for a report, but just establishing a communication link. The problem is that those are the moments that strangers almost in an instant gender us. It's no wonder we have performance anxiety; so much appears to rest on that moment when we first open our mouths. It's not that we cannot correct the first impression, but it's easier when we don't have to.

Oh, I don't know if brave is the word I'd choose. The guilt of never have taken my kids to the ocean is getting to me. Guilt can drive us to great feats of strength. 

Thank you, Jane. I agree that our performance anxiety is likely related to first impressions. I always find that the problem is compounded by my nervousness, in that it causes me to end up focusing on how my voice is presenting and less on what I'm actually saying or what kind of body language I'm delivering. If I fumble in any regard, I'm further distracted. It's a relentless snowball.

One trick that helped me was learning how to yell. I can always yell femininely, regardless of how my voice is doing at that particular moment. I expect this is because I really have to clench my muscles and strongly press air through my throat, so there's very little room for variation. If I assume the fundamentals of this position right before I speak, but instead use a normal volume, the result is always feminine -- though slightly constrained. It's very useful in a pinch (no pun intended).

I do this by pushing the base of my tongue back up against my throat, and pinching my vocal cords in a similar way that you might pronounce "uh" with a high pitch, projecting it towards the front of my mouth. Again, I feel like I'm the only person that this explanation will ever make sense to; hopefully, that isn't the case!

[Jane's Sweet Refrain]

Thank you, Jane. I agree that our performance anxiety is likely related to first impressions. I always find that the problem is compounded by my nervousness, in that it causes me to end up focusing on how my voice is presenting and less on what I'm actually saying or what kind of body language I'm delivering. If I fumble in any regard, I'm further distracted. It's a relentless snowball.

One trick that helped me was learning how to yell. I can always yell femininely, regardless of how my voice is doing at that particular moment. I expect this is because I really have to clench my muscles and strongly press air through my throat, so there's very little room for variation. If I assume the fundamentals of this position right before I speak, but instead use a normal volume, the result is always feminine -- though slightly constrained. It's very useful in a pinch (no pun intended).

I do this by pushing the base of my tongue back up against my throat, and pinching my vocal cords in a similar way that you might pronounce "uh" with a high pitch, projecting it towards the front of my mouth. Again, I feel like I'm the only person that this explanation will ever make sense to; hopefully, that isn't the case!

Actually, Sybil, your explanation of the uh-yell position is spot on. I've been practicing since yesterday. I've never been happy with my female voice yell, but this position as described is really good for starting out with a more robust female voice. There's less searching that I otherwise might have. It is perhaps true that I understand what you are saying because I can already do it, but learning always means making a leap from knowledge to execution.

On a related note, have you thought about making your own instructional audio-file? I find your descriptions broken down so much more minutely than the others I've encountered. At the risk of blasphemy, I found the Kathe Perez tutorials significantly wanting on so many levels. Good for strength, pitch, and slides. Horrible for resonance, which is really the key to sounding female. A very good cisgender friend of mine did a spectrogram reading of her voice on Praat and came out at 130. That's significantly lower than my @200 average. Yet no one ever genders her voice as male.

Any way, I just thought I would throw you some food for thought, although you may not be hungry.

Jane

[Anna++]

Close.  Something just seemed "off" to me.  Maybe it was the cadence.

I'll keep working, thanks!  Hopefully "close" means "good enough to use on most people"

[Sybil]

(truncated so that my rhinoceros of a post below takes up as little space as possible)

I have considered it, but I'm truthfully very bashful with my voice because of one quality I can't seem to squelch -- and definitely shy about producing a work for many people. My voice evolves constantly, and seems markedly different to me every 3 months or so. It was passable in a short amount of time, but the quality I'm aiming for seems far away. All the same, I have wanted to help others. Here's a thread I created a while ago to explain some things I've learned, but it is by no means comprehensive or even extensively revised, and I think I come off as a bit of a teenager in it:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,139458.0.html

I understand what you mean about Kathe Perez's audio CDs. I had to abandon the first one after 20 minutes because it prattled on about ideas, information, and little about actual voice use. While some people may appreciate that or even find it useful for their learning, it felt irrelevant and distracting for me. I only wanted to learn about mechanics with a sprinkle of satellite information.

Do people ever gender your voice as male? It seems very lithe and feminine to me, and honestly natural for your age; I'm not certain if you were drawing a contrast to your friend, or simply stating that she is never voice-gendered as male despite her low pitch. My score on Praat was 240, which made me want to bring it down a bit due to being 27 (in the link I sent you, I think it's about 230 in the more recent clip). I some times speak lower -- oddly enough, some males tell me they prefer this, and others tell me they like the higher one; I just can't seem to win, and I personally can't decide what I prefer.

Anyway, on a final note, I have offered to Skype with a few people to see what I can help them work on -- though this is not generally something I advertise; only if someone asks me for help first. That seems to be the easiest way, as I can interact with the sounds that they're producing. And I'm always hungry .. obnoxiously.

[Jane's Sweet Refrain]

I have considered it, but I'm truthfully very bashful with my voice because of one quality I can't seem to squelch -- and definitely shy about producing a work for many people. My voice evolves constantly, and seems markedly different to me every 3 months or so. It was passable in a short amount of time, but the quality I'm aiming for seems far away. All the same, I have wanted to help others. Here's a thread I created a while ago to explain some things I've learned, but it is by no means comprehensive or even extensively revised, and I think I come off as a bit of a teenager in it:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,139458.0.html

I understand what you mean about Kathe Perez's audio CDs. I had to abandon the first one after 20 minutes because it prattled on about ideas, information, and little about actual voice use. While some people may appreciate that or even find it useful for their learning, it felt irrelevant and distracting for me. I only wanted to learn about mechanics with a sprinkle of satellite information.

Do people ever gender your voice as male? It seems very lithe and feminine to me, and honestly natural for your age; I'm not certain if you were drawing a contrast to your friend, or simply stating that she is never voice-gendered as male despite her low pitch. My score on Praat was 240, which made me want to bring it down a bit due to being 27 (in the link I sent you, I think it's about 230 in the more recent clip). I some times speak lower -- oddly enough, some males tell me they prefer this, and others tell me they like the higher one; I just can't seem to win, and I personally can't decide what I prefer.
[I too have abbreviated Sybil's quotation. Jane]

Hi, I'm surprised at this point that no one has told us to get a room, except that I think that what we are discussing might be useful. In answer to whether my voice ever gets misgendered as male, I would say 'no'. But it's clear both from mine and from the very informative post for which you provide a link above that passing is not enough for so many of us. To a certain extent, developing a voice is like moving into a home that was built by someone else. Yes, there are walls and roof, but we want to make that voice express who we are. Plus, even when a woman has a voice as excellent and accomplished and feminine as the one on your sample, she still finds her way looking to, as you say, refine and to, as I would add, get refinement. We want a voice that invites the people we want to invite as friends and helps attract the person we might want as a potential  partner. So maybe we need a different topic called, "Fine, so my voice might pass, but does it sizzle?"

I really haven't worked on laugh or cough as much as I should. I also don't have the excited near falsetto with which women often great each other where I want it to be. That's why I feel like I'm operating at about 80% of self-expression. Honestly, I'm very happy, but I'm willing to spend years on the other 20%.

Mechanics is the word that was escaping me that you so helpfully provided. You may never produce a how-to series, but your points of reference to familiar bodily functions are very helpful and your more detailed analysis would help users understand when they are getting it right. I think that most of us working on our voices are in it for the long haul and don't expect immediate gratification. Still, if you never say another word about voice, you've already helped me, and I imagine others as well.   

[Aina]

Hey everyone, I decide to stop lurking, sign up for a forum name and delve into my first attempt of a voice test.

Bit of back story first, I have been practicing my voice on my own for about a year now. I used various sources such as this forum, videos ect.

I have a friend online who I have recently started practicing my voice, however I really look for more feedback. I am an artist so don't worry I am use to critiques, any feed back is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

- Aina


https://soundcloud.com/ainamiharu/first-recording-8-9-13

[Jamie D]

I'll keep working, thanks!  Hopefully "close" means "good enough to use on most people"

I thought the second one was better.  I guess the reading of text never sounds natural to me.

[Jamie D]

Hey everyone, I decide to stop lurking, sign up for a forum name and delve into my first attempt of a voice test.

Bit of back story first, I have been practicing my voice on my own for about a year now. I used various sources such as this forum, videos ect.

I have a friend online who I have recently started practicing my voice, however I really look for more feedback. I am an artist so don't worry I am use to critiques, any feed back is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

- Aina


https://soundcloud.com/ainamiharu/first-recording-8-9-13

Welcome Aina.  Sorry, but I could not access your recording.  What privacy setting are you on?

[Aina]

Welcome Aina.  Sorry, but I could not access your recording.  What privacy setting are you on?

Hi thanks!

Yes - sorry I turned it off, I am a bit nervous about my voice. I suppose you could say I have what they call major stage fright..even online.

I have made it public. I think it will work now..

https://soundcloud.com/ainamiharu/first-recording-8-9-13

If this still doesn't work I'll try to mess with the sound cloud settings. But it does say the file is public now.

[Meeples]

Aina, it would be great if you would raise your voice somewhat - you sound good, but it's at a near whisper which makes it a bit difficult to get a good grasp on.

Here are two of my own I'd love to get an opinion on! I've only just recent started trying to work on my voice, so please don't be gentle - I know I have an issue with certain things, particularly words that start with a hard consonant, and I'm still trying to find my 'spot'!

http://vocaroo.com/i/s15x38ZHxHhj

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Dv8MIQcG4e

Slightly different voices for each.

[Jamie D]

Hi thanks!

Yes - sorry I turned it off, I am a bit nervous about my voice. I suppose you could say I have what they call major stage fright..even online.

I have made it public. I think it will work now..

https://soundcloud.com/ainamiharu/first-recording-8-9-13

If this still doesn't work I'll try to mess with the sound cloud settings. But it does say the file is public now.

I really think your voice is quite good!  A bit in the soft side, but otherwise passable.

[Jamie D]

Aina, it would be great if you would raise your voice somewhat - you sound good, but it's at a near whisper which makes it a bit difficult to get a good grasp on.

Here are two of my own I'd love to get an opinion on! I've only just recent started trying to work on my voice, so please don't be gentle - I know I have an issue with certain things, particularly words that start with a hard consonant, and I'm still trying to find my 'spot'!

http://vocaroo.com/i/s15x38ZHxHhj

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Dv8MIQcG4e

Slightly different voices for each.

I think I like the second one better, but just 2 seconds each doesn't give an opportunity to hear your range or inflections.  I'd suggest doing them again, and just telling us a little about yourself, for at least a minute.

[SaveMeJeebus]

I really think your voice is quite good!  A bit in the soft side, but otherwise passable.

I think I like the second one better, but just 2 seconds each doesn't give an opportunity to hear your range or inflections.  I'd suggest doing them again, and just telling us a little about yourself, for at least a minute.

I concur with Jamie's opinion for the both of yous; Aina and Meeples.

[Aina]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

Meeples I think your voice is great btw, and next time I do a recording I will try to be less shy and raise my voice some. Because I "can" I just get really nervous about doing it public even if its over the internet hehe this of course is one of the bigger hurdles I have yet to conqueror.

I at least feel now that I am moving in the right direction!