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Progynova method?

Started by LilyoftheValley, September 20, 2012, 03:06:35 PM

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LilyoftheValley

well im somewhat debating with myself on the best method for taking my progynova tablets... should i take them sublingually? or just swallow them with a glass of water. and also, when taken sublingually should they be under the front of the toungue?or the side? ??? im open to suggestions here i would appreciate the help   :)
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Beverly

What does it say on the side of the box? Failing that is there not an enclosed leaflet telling you the frequency and dose?
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Flan

Just take with water, coated tablets like Progynova won't readily dissolve sublingually.
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JoanneB

I have no issues with taking them sublingually. The coating disolves fairly quickly. All told it's about 3-5 minutes start to finish. The pill stays in one piece and doesn't turn to dust once the coating melts. I mostly pay attention to how much I drool and to not move it around all that much. It usually winds up off to one side or the other. Trying to keep it inthe middle is a fool's game I say
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LilyoftheValley

thanks for the advice :) yeah it says in the box to take it with water but you know... some say its better sublingually and it avoids the liver that way.
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Beverly

Quote from: AngelofthePlains on September 20, 2012, 08:09:54 PM
thanks for the advice :) yeah it says in the box to take it with water but you know... some say its better sublingually and it avoids the liver that way.
Follow the manufacturer's advice. I think they know the best way to administer their drug. Some drugs require the liver to metabolise them so that they can be effective otherwise they are inert.
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luna nyan

I take mine sublingually, leaving it under one side of the tongue.  The issue with SL administration is that the dosage is not going to be consistent - if you happen to have high saliva flow at the time, you'll end up swallowing more of it.  The only reason I'm doing SL is I just want to avoid the first pass to be nicer to internal organs (theoretically).  My endo did note down that my E levels were higher than what he expected for someone on my current dosage.  If you're concerned about consistent dosage, then just swallow it - personally I'm getting enough either way that I'm feeling happy with myself.

Besides, it tastes slightly sweet, and I don't mind starting the day with something sugary.  The spiro on the other hand... ew!
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: brc on September 21, 2012, 02:30:06 AM
Follow the manufacturer's advice. I think they know the best way to administer their drug. Some drugs require the liver to metabolise them so that they can be effective otherwise they are inert.

It isn't their drug.

Nobody owns a drug except god (if you believe in such a thing).

You can patent and lay claim to how you discovered how to synthesis it. But it's still just an expression of natural phenomenons involving matter and physics.

Progynova is estradiol valerate. Estradiol just being the primary human estrogen (they can hardly lay claim to something the body has been producing since we before the discovery of molecular chemistry), which has been chemically bonded with valeric acid, also a naturally occurring substance, to produce the estradiol valerate compound. You can lay claim to the exact discovery of having synthesized in a lan substances which occur naturally, and then somewhat lay claim to the discovery of the semi-synthetic compound you have created in a lab by combining them through chemical bonds. But it's still only their discovery of a natural phenomenon, not 'their drug'. Drugs in fact throughout history have been synthesized by different people completely independent of each other. Because they are more discoveries of preexisting potential phenomenons rather than inventions.

Additionally. Sublingual administration does NOT prevent the medication going through the liver, where the compound be stripped of its valerate ester to form estradiol. It will reach the liver by virtue of entering your blood stream.

You are correct that some drugs do rely on first pass metabolism, a phenomenon of swallowed medications, to form their active compound. Codeine for example, must be taken orally, because it relies on first pass metabolism to form its parent compound morphine and other metabolites, without that effect it is actually somewhat dangerous in its unaltered form in your blood stream.

Estradiol valerate however, is NOT an example of such a drug. It is routinely used in injectable form where it will not be affected by first pass metabolism, and does not rely on it.

I can say from first hand experience and testing that sublingual progynova, on the balance of evidence available to me, likely does result in an increased serum concentration than you would get by swallowing.

However you should always follow what the blood tests indicate. If your estradiol levels are low, by all means consider sublingual, if however they are high, and/or you have no history of liver problems, you're pretty much fine to just swallow them.
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Beverly

Quote from: Asfsd4214 on September 21, 2012, 10:49:20 AM
It isn't their drug.

::)

All right then.... I think they [the manufacturer] know the best way to administer the drugs which they market

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Asfsd4214

Quote from: brc on September 21, 2012, 07:49:28 PM
::)

All right then.... I think they [the manufacturer] know the best way to administer the drugs which they market

Did you actually read the rest of my post?

What's official, what's endorsed and approved by those with the designated ability to approve, do not in fact as much as they might like to believe, dictate reality.

For one, you do in fact realize that the progynova manufacturer states that progynova is for short term use only and is not indicated for transgender individuals in any way. It doesn't matter because what's official often doesn't have any relevancy to the reality of the situation.
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Ami

#10
Hi,

So many forums so not sure where to get help on this matter.

My partner is new to transitioning and just been to see a endocrinologist (Male wanting to be Female in 30s). She came away with a script for progynova (oestradiol valerate). The thing is that she has been given instructions to take one 3 times a day, isn't this a high dose especially to start on?

Thanks





Edited for Dosages
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Jamie D

Ami, that seems a little high as a starter dosage, but if the doctor is experienced at this, s/he likely has a good reason.

Did the Doctor suggest a sublingual (under the tongue) application?
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V M

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Ami

Yes this is what I thought from my search. Why would such a nigh dose be issued to start on? No option was given this is just what the endocrinologist suggested would be best and wrote the script for my partner to get. She saw Dr Hayes in Sydney. My partner is going along with it as we are only new to the trans world and no no better and assume that Dr Hayes knows best.

Thanks
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Ami

Sorry everyone I didn't read the rules properly and missed about saying dosages.
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sandrauk

The doctor doesn't give her a fixed set of rules that must be followed. Always use your common sense. I occasionally take a couple of days off my HRT because I think it's a good idea to flush my system and start afresh.

I  suggest starting for a week on one pill a day and steadily increase and monitor your results.
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Taka

i don't think there are any laws that prevent you from taking lower dosages than what the doctor prescribed. people could even choose not to take any meds at all. do what seems most reasonable, and remember that even good doctors can make mistakes.
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Cindy

Hayes is as experienced as they come.
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Richenda

Quote from: Beverly on September 21, 2012, 07:49:28 PM
::)

All right then.... I think they [the manufacturer] know the best way to administer the drugs which they market

Was just checking through some back posts as I had to purchase different strength progynova (estradiol). I couldn't help but notice this little discussion.

I think the point is, perhaps, that whereas the conventional approved drug use for estradiol means 1 tablet per day and therefore swallowing is fine, for HRT in trans people it's quite likely they will be taking more than one tablet a day because of the half-life. In these circumstances, why put extra strain on the liver?

In addition I've actually never encountered a drug company prescribing sublingual drugs. I know they do in hospital but I just can't imagine the general populace coping with the idea of something dissolving slowly under the tongue for 5 minutes.

Oh and plus no drug company is going to prescribe a method of administration based on the 'hey there are no real studies to confirm this but this drug may damage your liver so here's the best way to take it ...'

;) :)

I take it sublingually and it works well.
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